Odale
Active Member
I'll wait for HCS on this one.
Obama elected President
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Odale
Active Member
You forgot Jon Stewart's Daily Show.
Now that is very scarey
macromaster
New Member
Also, what if Obama's tax plan causes many people who donate hefty amounts of money to lose interest because they are forced to donate more then they are willing to give? Of course we are talking about the organizations who properly use that money.
Obama seems to only cater to the common folk (no offense meant of course, i mean I am common.) instead of to everyone? I mean helping out the poor is nice, but there are times when other folks should be added to the equation. Let's just hope that the senate and congress is balanced enough to weigh Obama's proposals instead of doing it because of which party they are under. I would hate for the country to fall because somebody voted strictly because they were republican or democrat. It would be shameful down the road one hundred years later that the US had the shortest lifespan of any country.
Obama seems to only cater to the common folk (no offense meant of course, i mean I am common.) instead of to everyone? I mean helping out the poor is nice, but there are times when other folks should be added to the equation. Let's just hope that the senate and congress is balanced enough to weigh Obama's proposals instead of doing it because of which party they are under. I would hate for the country to fall because somebody voted strictly because they were republican or democrat. It would be shameful down the road one hundred years later that the US had the shortest lifespan of any country.
vibrokatana
New Member
The taxes have always been scaled based on income. Because I only work part time I usually get most of my income back as a rebate. If you are making 250+k a year and can't afford to pay 5-10% more taxes then someone who makes 40k, then you need to rethink your expenditures a bit.
macromaster
New Member
But the tax increase this time may be more...
nattyg
New Member
For one, it's not individuals, it's families 250k or less (then again, even they don't know their own plan as they've cited different numbers and qualifications throughout the process). What right do you have to tell someone they have to pay proportionally more because they're more successful or how to spend their money? How do you know they're not using that money for charitable purposes, whether they claim them on taxes or not (e.g. I for one do not as I think it violates the general premise of giving, personally).
Secondly, families at that border aren't (generally) wealthy enough to have sophisticated financial planning or tax shelters as those who are say making millions a year (e.g. most of Congress through one way or another...Mr. Obama, Hollywood, etc...) so the people at the low end of the "high" bracket are the ones shouldering the brunt of the burden whereas those making the most can move money around, defer compensation and generally shelter it to avoid negative tax implications. Then there's the impact this has on small businesses / self-employed people.
I think a better idea would be that people be financially responsible for themselves and not be like the woman with acrylic nails but can't afford milk, or better...expecting someone else to come along and pay for their mortgage.
I understand this isn't supposed to be a flame thread, but comments like that are, to say the least, a bit inflammatory and poorly thought out.
Durruck
Pirate!
I've seen figures up to 39% on federal taxes alone. That's not a 5% increase. I'm in off the chart on the 1040 form and have to do the big equation to figure out what I pay... but it's still around 28% (even taking the Alternative Minimum Tax into account, which can hit people as low as $35,000 gross income.) Then add in that because of rocketing insurance costs... I will actually bring home about $10,000 less than I did last year
What really hurts is the jump that it takes from 249,999 by earning that last extra dollar. Take into consideration that inflation was nearly 5% this year (4.9% YTD), then make $1 too much and get smacked with a 11% tax hike? ouch.
To imply that I'm mismanaging my funds is a horrible statement. I tithe and gift to my church, go out of my way to volunteer at the church (which takes money for food and gas) I teach a Sunday school class (where I purchase supplies for the lessons). I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or do drugs. My biggest source of "wasted money" is my cell phone and my cable/internet bills. To say that I'm wasting my income is slapping me in the face for working my tail off to make a good living. I work 60 hours a week, my wife works 80 hours a week. I'm sorry if our 140 hours a week means that we're too rich to keep what we've earned, but you can keep flipping burgers for 20 hours a week if that's what you'll be satisfied with.
What really hurts is the jump that it takes from 249,999 by earning that last extra dollar. Take into consideration that inflation was nearly 5% this year (4.9% YTD), then make $1 too much and get smacked with a 11% tax hike? ouch.
To imply that I'm mismanaging my funds is a horrible statement. I tithe and gift to my church, go out of my way to volunteer at the church (which takes money for food and gas) I teach a Sunday school class (where I purchase supplies for the lessons). I don't smoke, drink, gamble, or do drugs. My biggest source of "wasted money" is my cell phone and my cable/internet bills. To say that I'm wasting my income is slapping me in the face for working my tail off to make a good living. I work 60 hours a week, my wife works 80 hours a week. I'm sorry if our 140 hours a week means that we're too rich to keep what we've earned, but you can keep flipping burgers for 20 hours a week if that's what you'll be satisfied with.
nattyg
New Member
Oh, I didn't even read the first portion...so you expect people to pay more for you because you work part time? Wow...just...wow...
Perhaps we should consider taxing part time people more for not contributing as much to the economy and national production?
Perhaps we should consider taxing part time people more for not contributing as much to the economy and national production?
Kidan
Moderator
taxes by their very nature are socialist policies. Especially the way that Obama views taxes and the thought that they are there to be used for wealth redistribution:
Obama said:
exactly! Consider, we are under duress to pay these taxes, and if you don't then you are punished, and your property is taken. Despite the long history of private ownership of property, with the introduction of property taxes we no longer own it, but rather rent it from the government (don't believe me? don't pay the property taxes and see how quickly you get evicted by the county).
There is no mandate in the Constitution to allow for a nationalized health care system. At least none of the proponents of it have ever been able to point it out to me.
ppar3566
New Member
OK this needs to stop now. VKs comments were not directed toward anybody specifically and yet you have made some fairly pointed and highly personal attacks aimed at him. While the last part of his comment may be flippent the first part merely explained the tax system as he understood it. To suggest he is lazy "but you can keep flipping burgers for 20 hours a week if that's what you'll be satisfied with" or take his post completely out of context "Oh, I didn't even read the first portion...so you expect people to pay more for you because you work part time?" is very upsetting.
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blackgravity
New Member
As far as I understand it, someone who makes less than $10,000 a year owes no taxes. That may have changed, I really don't know. Generally speaking, all the part time students at my job make well under that. I think that's what he meant.
Kidan
Moderator
I think it's a bit higher than that. After all, over a third of all Americans don't pay taxes--yet we keep giving them "tax cuts" (which in Liberal-speak is the same thing as a tax credit).
nattyg
New Member
I would call dicatating that someone needs to be penalized for putting in the work and effort to be successful and not being able to enjoy the rewards of it or save without incurring additional penalties far more upsetting. I also disagree that it was taken out of context...he simply said he gets most of his money back but doesn't find it to be a problem that people that make more should be taxed disproportionately higher. Quite plain and simple IMO.
I certainly am sorry that someone took offense, but I have no qualms stating what I stated, nor do I find there to be any reason to apologize for what I stated in response to an inflammatory and poorly considered statement and position. When people stop making posts stating that those that have put an exceptional amount of work into advancing themselves personally and professionally, particularly coming from a, to say the least, not exactly comfortable upbringing, should be penalized, I'll cease writing posts to refute the ludicracy of them.
macromaster
New Member
Come on folks, let's not argue okay? It happens, they hike up the taxes because they want to make more money. Hopefully Obama manages to do something decent. Let's just hope he doesn't mess with the government too bad, I doubt that their going to be as tolerant about his messing with their programs. I'm hoping the wall street people get it the most, they did get us into this situation afterall. Its only fair that they give back the money they took.
Kidan
Moderator
No, wall street did NOT get us into this situation. That falls squarely on two places
1) Clinton-era policies where bad lending practices were forced onto the bank systems in order to get as many low-income people into houses as possible.
2) People stupid enough to take out loans they could not afford.
Remember, just because a bank says that you're "approved" for a loan, doesn't mean that it's a good idea for you to take it out. Due to Clinton-era policies, these exotic loans were created which in effect created the housing bubble, artificially drove prices higher by creating unsustainable demand for housing and when it all came tumbling down on our ears, we were surprised?
heres something i posted on ccgr explaining briefly what kidan is referencing. some technicalities or details may be missing, but this is the core of it in a couple small paragraphs
:
Many years ago in the 1990's there were initiatives for getting low income families "affordable" homes in better neighborhoods. Banks would give great rates for low income families that would never otherwise be able to afford them and consequently could not afford them leading to foreclosures. Now fannie mae (wiki quote)
over the years bought over $100 billion in mortgage debt of banks. Now this is a reasonably good idea and you get the principle investment plus interest on these as people pay them back. However this debt was mostly low income families in "affordable" housing that they could not afford. With everything being foreclosed on and things changing quickly, noone knows the full value of the homes, thus the full value of the debt or investment leading to the current confusion.
for the last 8 years republicans and john mccain have been advocating regulation of FNMA and especially in 2003 when democrats threatened to phillabuster regulations against FNMA.
:
Many years ago in the 1990's there were initiatives for getting low income families "affordable" homes in better neighborhoods. Banks would give great rates for low income families that would never otherwise be able to afford them and consequently could not afford them leading to foreclosures. Now fannie mae (wiki quote)
over the years bought over $100 billion in mortgage debt of banks. Now this is a reasonably good idea and you get the principle investment plus interest on these as people pay them back. However this debt was mostly low income families in "affordable" housing that they could not afford. With everything being foreclosed on and things changing quickly, noone knows the full value of the homes, thus the full value of the debt or investment leading to the current confusion.
for the last 8 years republicans and john mccain have been advocating regulation of FNMA and especially in 2003 when democrats threatened to phillabuster regulations against FNMA.
Reasons I didn't vote for Obama:
1. He doesn't share my fundamental view that everyone has the right to life including the unborn he voted against a ban on protecting babies who survive an abortion.
2. His judgment on the people he associates with for numbers of years Aryes, Wright ect... At one point he supported and said he couldn't turn on Wright then all of a sudden he leaves Church because of pressure.
3. His experience a 4 years in the senate 2 of which he was running for president.
4. Voting present 100+ times on tough issues because he couldn't take a stance on something
5. Increasing taxes
6. He doesn't share my view that people don't need the government to take care of them from cradle to grave. Government should be smaller IRS, dpt. of education, and tons of other bureaucracies should be cut.
7. I don't believe as of now that he is even eligible to be president based on the fact of him hiding his birth records. (Hopefully that changes and he will be cleared of that)
8. Gun Control I believe that we all have the right to own guns and Obama surely feels different about this.
9. Spreading the wealth and fairness doctrine. He knows that by raising the capital gains tax that, that will decrease revenue because companies will try to find loopholes to hide there money. For fact lower taxes open people up to expose more of there income this is fact from the Regan years. I believe you should keep what you earn and shouldn't be forced to have money taking from your paycheck to pay for poor people to do drugs. If you want to do out of the kindess of your own heart you can.
10. He wants this feed the planet tax so our taxes go up so we provide more aid to poor countries. This seems nice but we have no choice our money is being taken from us.
11. Change I hear so much about change but I don't agree with any of it.
12. His stance on the war, I believe we shouldn't even be there. We shouldn't have 700+ military bases around the world. Nation building and policing the world is not our job. We live in an Empire and are spending billions on our military we don't have the money for this. We spend money on bombs to blow up iraqi bridges then we spend money fixing them it makes no sense:
Our foreign policy has some called blow back were the things we do come back and bite us in the butt. We used to support Osama Bin Laden agaisn't the Russians providing money and guns and know we have a massive man hunt from him. Friends one day enemies the next. How would we feel if China or Russia was building military bases near us we would be outraged. I believe the world can solve some of its own problems and we shouldn't be in entangling alliances we should talk and trade with countries.
I did vote for McCain because I was told it was going to be a close race in Ohio but tbh I didn't like him either. Currently I am a member of the Constitution Party that is for small government, Personal freedoms, and Christian view points. From now on I will be voting 3rd party Unless Ron Paul wins Republican Nomination in 2012 if he runs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs
^Watch this video give you some hope that he might not become president^
Either way we have to pray for the President even if we don't agree with him. God is in control of everything so rest assured we have already won.
1. He doesn't share my fundamental view that everyone has the right to life including the unborn he voted against a ban on protecting babies who survive an abortion.
2. His judgment on the people he associates with for numbers of years Aryes, Wright ect... At one point he supported and said he couldn't turn on Wright then all of a sudden he leaves Church because of pressure.
3. His experience a 4 years in the senate 2 of which he was running for president.
4. Voting present 100+ times on tough issues because he couldn't take a stance on something
5. Increasing taxes
6. He doesn't share my view that people don't need the government to take care of them from cradle to grave. Government should be smaller IRS, dpt. of education, and tons of other bureaucracies should be cut.
7. I don't believe as of now that he is even eligible to be president based on the fact of him hiding his birth records. (Hopefully that changes and he will be cleared of that)
8. Gun Control I believe that we all have the right to own guns and Obama surely feels different about this.
9. Spreading the wealth and fairness doctrine. He knows that by raising the capital gains tax that, that will decrease revenue because companies will try to find loopholes to hide there money. For fact lower taxes open people up to expose more of there income this is fact from the Regan years. I believe you should keep what you earn and shouldn't be forced to have money taking from your paycheck to pay for poor people to do drugs. If you want to do out of the kindess of your own heart you can.
10. He wants this feed the planet tax so our taxes go up so we provide more aid to poor countries. This seems nice but we have no choice our money is being taken from us.
11. Change I hear so much about change but I don't agree with any of it.
12. His stance on the war, I believe we shouldn't even be there. We shouldn't have 700+ military bases around the world. Nation building and policing the world is not our job. We live in an Empire and are spending billions on our military we don't have the money for this. We spend money on bombs to blow up iraqi bridges then we spend money fixing them it makes no sense:
Our foreign policy has some called blow back were the things we do come back and bite us in the butt. We used to support Osama Bin Laden agaisn't the Russians providing money and guns and know we have a massive man hunt from him. Friends one day enemies the next. How would we feel if China or Russia was building military bases near us we would be outraged. I believe the world can solve some of its own problems and we shouldn't be in entangling alliances we should talk and trade with countries.
I did vote for McCain because I was told it was going to be a close race in Ohio but tbh I didn't like him either. Currently I am a member of the Constitution Party that is for small government, Personal freedoms, and Christian view points. From now on I will be voting 3rd party Unless Ron Paul wins Republican Nomination in 2012 if he runs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA6_k3NtXZs
^Watch this video give you some hope that he might not become president^
Either way we have to pray for the President even if we don't agree with him. God is in control of everything so rest assured we have already won.
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I don't have the heart to post about the election. I think I will be away from the forums for a little bit until I feel better.
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