New Update: Heavy

Keero

Tribe of Judah Membership Administrator
Hey, so the TF2 Blog (here) confirms that the Heavy is next. So what awesome weapons and such are coming? Well, that's up to the community to decide. The blog states it wants us, the players, to come up with the new weapons. Something for when the Heavy doesn't have a medic on him. There's already a thread on the steam forums (here) that has a few decent ideas.

So, what do you think? I would rather have Valve come up with the ideas, but it's cool to see the community come up with some oddball stuff. I have been playing the Soldier and Heavy more, so I hope what they come up is pretty darn good. I thought the Spy would be next, but oh well. :P (Soz Gerbil, more Medic for you!)
 
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I thought the Spy would be next, but oh well. :P

I actually wanted the heavy to be next as he needed it most. Not enough people play that class. I think the order should be...

Heavy (because they are slow as spit and need something to make them special so people will want to play them more).

Sniper (because they are to easy to kill when in snipe mode).

Engineer (because they need something else to do to lighten the boredom of turtle'ing defense. They do not need improved spy defense though).

Spy (because by now their main pray will be tougher).

Soldier, Demo or Scout (the easiest and/or most powerful classes to play should come last).

(Soz Gerbil, more Medic for you!)

Dream on! My performance varies greatly but I've pwn'ed plenty of pyros as a spy. Pyro, scout, heavy whatever updates bring it on! I Spy forever :p! I play medic because the team needs it or more likely there are too many spies on a team already. I am actually becoming quite the annoying scout nowadays too ^^.

I do hope they don't go giving the heavy some form of quicker movement ability that would be wrong. Heavies should be slow that's their weakness. They should just be more "fun".

...and I still hope they nerf the backburner a little.
 
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I dunno, it's hard for me to think of ideas... with the Medic upgrades, I think they were nicely balanced changes, things that just tweaked the way the class works or gave you options, but not so much as to change the medics play style completely or role in the game, cover up his weaknesses or power up the strengths.

The Pyro's been a mixed bag. The flare gun was a nice add, giving him a *little* range, but really only good if the Pyro has good aim or the opponent is standing still, and doesn't completely replace the shotgun (it's still better for finishing off an immolated opponent). The new axe = whatever. The air blast is alright and has been a thorn in my side (being a demo man mainly) so I haven't quite decided on whether it's a major game changer. I hate the back burner though, that one is a definite issue for me. Pyros were problems to begin with in 2Fort, now they totally dominate it.

For the Heavy...I dunno, I think the class already does perfectly what it's meant to do. Again, whatever the changes are, shouldn't "fix" a weakness or over-boost a strength. (Side: that's why I disagree with giving Sniper's something to save them from people who sneak up on 'em; the Sniper's weakness up close balances his strength at a distance) It should just give the player some options in how they play the role offensively or defensively.

The Heavy's main function is to stop the offense: just sit there, clog up a doorway, eat damage and spew bullets. Some thing that perhaps boosts a Heavy's health for last ditch attempts to stop a rush would be fitting, like some kind of adrenaline overdrive that gives the heavy a bonus 150 health but after 5 seconds subtracts 100 health. (This would be an ability that would need to be charged up.)

An alternate machine gun that had a more focused cone of fire but no ability to move (or maybe some pushback) would give an offensive Heavy something to do against a distant sentry placement. Or maybe a hyper-spin gun: Rate of fire is doubled, you get a slight ammo boost but the Heavy can't move when firing, only aim.

I think Gerbil suggested some kind of teammate throw ability, which I think was neat but too much of a game changer/griefer magnet. But we do need to come up with something for the Heavy to do with his fists, his brute strength and the bullet chain wrapped over his shoulder. Maybe the Heavy could become a walking ammo despenser, but I think that's something more for NGs. Maybe a bear hug attack? :) Weaker than a punch, but it immobilizes an opponent unless they can shake out of it. Or maybe a Zangief style windmill attack, or Hulk-like ground smash, the upshot being that it pushes or punishes enemies that get too close. (I'm looking at you, pesky circle strafing Scout)

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I don't necessarily think that the Heavy is underplayed, I think it's more that a team really *only* needs one, or at most two Heavies. Any more than that and you start to weaken your ability to get to CPs on time, run the flag, remove sentries, etc. You can always use more of everything else though (Pyros, Scouts, Soldiers, etc.) and not get penalized, but going overboard with the Heavy has consequences.
 
Of note the recent update to TF2 supposally fixed the bug that made spies get stuck on enemy players (which has been responsible for killing me many times).
It also added back a little bit of the falloff to the pyros flame although how much I do not know.

The more I think about it I agree heavies tossing teammates just wouldn't work (although I found a guy that suggested the same idea) but the part about toss killing enemies could. I also wondered if they could give a dragon punch to the heavy since the pyro has a hadoken but Shaq's Zangief move would be more apropos:p
 
Schweet. I like to play heavy occasionally, so this ought to be interesting. It's hard to come up with ideas though. Most of the good ones have already been covered in that Steam forum thread.
 
I only play Heavy when I'm not playing seriously. Even then, I almost never use the primary or secondary weapon.

In short, I only use the Heavy to box other players, so I don't have much of an interest in Heavy achievements.

The upside is that there won't be as many people playing Pyro when Valve releases the Heavy achievement pack.
 
The other upside is a lot of people are going to get the Grey Matter achievement for headshots with all those heavies running around.
 
The other upside is a lot of people are going to get the Grey Matter achievement for headshots with all those heavies running around.
/me looks forward to hearing the Heavy death scream more often

Sorry. I just...don't like Heavies. At all.

As for my ideas for new Heavy weapons, I have only two words:

Brass. Knuckles.
 
lets see....

For the primary weapon.

I was thinking of a more powerful Gatling gun. One that is slower firing rate, but more powerful bullets and better accuracy. The only perk is that the heavy can not move while firing, and it has a longer charge time before it starts. (the heavy's current gun shoots its bullets in about a half second, i was thinking it takes a full second or two to charge up this gun before it fires).
That way, the medic + heavy combo wouldn't change (because the medic and heavy combo is for an assault) because the heavy can't move while shooting.
And, the heavy would have to think of when he starts firing. Because since he can not move with the gun, he must aim at his target, begin charge up, wait a second or two, then he can start firing.

That gun would be primarily a defensive gun, though.
 
The only time I will play a Heavy is when I am tired of getting pushed back lol. I also generally "ask" someone else to roll a Medic with me.

I will try to get the achievements for it though.
 
I really like the stationary ubergun idea. I could totally see them doing that.
I think in general, the answer can be found in how it seems Valve would like us to play the heavy, and how he ends up being played (wrongly).

As for secondary gun and melee weapon, let's see...
Actually, this is tough, as i think we're using the shotgun pretty much as intended. Maybe you can go with a dinky set of paired UZIs? I concede, I have no idea.
Melee: brass knuckles that do some sort of debuff, like make the enemy more vulnerable to damage (imagine the heavy charging into the fray, preferably ubered, and "tagging" everyone with the debuff).

And purely unsolicited, my speculation for the other classes.

Demoman (my fave!)
Primary: Cluster grenades? Launch 3 weaker grenades (or same strength, but need a loading time, a-la UT)
Secondary: Drop proximity mine- lay a mine that is kinda hard to see, that goes off on its own, without your triggering it.
Melee: Not so sure. Maybe a stun as mentioned above (demos have such a weak deadzone, i feel like having a stun bottle could really encourage meleeing).

Spy
New sap: convert building (converts the building to serve your team, imagine your engi building an entrance, and then hijacking their exit)
Pistol: hits the enemy and temporarily switches their appearance to your team, but more importantly, makes them vulnerable to friendly fire!
Knife: No idea. Maybe a damage over time like the pyro's flame, but in this case, it's a slow poison?

This is all I have so far, hope you found my obsessive ramblings coherent!
 
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I like your sap device idea. That could be fun, I was thinking for the melee: switch it it a lethal injection, that can be used when cloaked, something that just keeps lowering health slowly until healed, either by spawn, dispenser, medi-kit, or medic. Or maybe get rid of the sapper completely and give him a spy camera that you can plant anywhere and you team can see it's view at spawn points.
 
Ooo, I like the enemy colour changer and the engy building stealing, both very unique and game play changing ideas.
 
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