Found a good link for our hunters who are not quite Kara geared yet.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2720554293&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2720554293&sid=1
*New* Level 70 Hunters and gear ...
- Thread starter Allanon
- Start date
Kagnus
New Member
Just out of curiosity, since you mention Karazhan, exactly what talents does a hunter need to have or how does a hunter go about trapping hard hitting targets?
Just wondering about this on Moroes...I see some hunters able to trap the adds without taking damage then others seem to get hit and die.
Just wondering about this on Moroes...I see some hunters able to trap the adds without taking damage then others seem to get hit and die.
Often hunters die due to the arming time of laying a trap, they do not wait long enough before laying and pulling. There is a built in 2 sec "arming" time after laying a trap (which is instant). So if a hunter is not a designated ccer, he/she should be laying a trap between the cc'ed mobs and the healers ... always! If a hunter is a designated ccer, they should be laying their traps out of the way (far from healers) and using distracting shot to pull to the trap. I am a HUGE fan of double trapping but it is a bit of an art and somewhat gear dependent, not kara gear, just two pieces of our dungeon 3 set.
The other issue I have seen and talk to others about is premature feigning. If for some reason the tank losing aggro and they come for you, tank them, aspect of the monkey plus mail has a longer time of survival then a clothie - period. If you feign, they will go to the next highest in the aggro list and that typically means the healers, those healers go done, all you have done is saved yourself at the cost of the run. There are exceptions but for the most of the time, it costs someone when you feign.
The other issue I have seen and talk to others about is premature feigning. If for some reason the tank losing aggro and they come for you, tank them, aspect of the monkey plus mail has a longer time of survival then a clothie - period. If you feign, they will go to the next highest in the aggro list and that typically means the healers, those healers go done, all you have done is saved yourself at the cost of the run. There are exceptions but for the most of the time, it costs someone when you feign.
Oh on the topic of talents, at the present moment, there is only one spec, one spec only for kara, that is BM. Having a MM or Surv. or a mix is not ideal. A hunter should not *only* be bringing cc (aka surv) to a run, their dps is almost a must. MM is not currently the best dps build, whether you like it or not, BM/MM with a two piece dungeon 3 set (on bosses) is the ideal set up for Kara.
i though I think it should be what they like also, there are hunters whs dps isnt high but they have points in trap and well they are important also. I know the bm/mm is the best dps one but having trap points is good also even in kara where the reset on traps is faster and last longer.
If the run is not progression-based, I completely agree, in fact, let the hunter go bare-handed if you like but if the run is expected to be progression-base then at some point, each member must conform to what is best for the raid, not what is best for their own personal play style.
I will throw in my 2 cents and agree with Adam. For a fun run, do whatever you want. If you are joining a Kara run expecting to down Prince, you need to get the highest DPS build possible.
As Adam mentioned, I have tried out the different builds in Kara - MM/SV, SV/MM, and of course the BM/MM build. There are those who argue for the MM heavy builds and their massive dps, but those must not be combining their pet into their dps figures. That "massive" dps is a fable, carried over from pre-TBC days. It just Does....Not....Happen anymore. At the highest gear levels, MM has the LEAST dps of any spec. SV passes MM at about 800 agility, as RAP just doesn't scale as well as you would think, where Agility multiplies with itself. I can certainly understand someone who enjoys this build as it takes very little pet management but it must be with an understanding they are giving up dps.
The same is true with SV heavy. Until you can hit about 700-750 UNBUFFED AND PRE SV agility (which would bounce you to near 800 unbuffed agility AFTER SV), this is not a viable DPS spec compared to BM. If you have that sort of agility, your overgeared for Kara anyway, so spec what you want. I very much WANT to be SV, but it ain't happening anytime soon. I know the argument for better trapping etc. If you are running a lot of heroics with a group that understands you purposely gimped your dps for better group utility, fine, its a great spec. But that particular utility has very little benefit for a Kara party. You can try to justify it, but it isn't going to fly. Traps simply are not needed in Kara. Many groups do without ANY hunters. If you have 2 pieces of D3 gear, you are set for Kara. Just swap them out as needed.
Most groups I have run Kara with outside of our TF Group 1 are absolutely stunned with hunter dps potential after the run. I get a LOT of tells, especially from those who have 'Never' had a hunter beat them in raids. I was in one group where we took down Prince, among other bosses of course, where I was 5% above the nearest dps'er (I had about 25% of the entire groups dps). Most people vastly underestimate the potential of the hunter in their group. This is not a brag post. The reason Group 1 ran with 3 hunters for so long is because it was EFFECTIVE, and NOT for their trapping. Beyond Moroes, we just didn't trap much. It was all about the DPS. My best dps right now hovers around 1350 or so on some boss fights. More normal hovers btn 800 and 1100 depending on how much I have to move around.
In conclusion, feel free to spec whatever you want. Its a game. Have fun, or its not worth doing. Just be aware of what decisions you are making and how they affect the raid. If you make a conscious choice to limit your dps due to enjoyment of another spec, make sure the group knows that, as you are potentially affecting the rest of the groups enjoyment by limiting how far the group can progress. I get the most fun (and a LOT of Kara invites) doing the max damage I can pull off. Your mileage may vary.
As Adam mentioned, I have tried out the different builds in Kara - MM/SV, SV/MM, and of course the BM/MM build. There are those who argue for the MM heavy builds and their massive dps, but those must not be combining their pet into their dps figures. That "massive" dps is a fable, carried over from pre-TBC days. It just Does....Not....Happen anymore. At the highest gear levels, MM has the LEAST dps of any spec. SV passes MM at about 800 agility, as RAP just doesn't scale as well as you would think, where Agility multiplies with itself. I can certainly understand someone who enjoys this build as it takes very little pet management but it must be with an understanding they are giving up dps.
The same is true with SV heavy. Until you can hit about 700-750 UNBUFFED AND PRE SV agility (which would bounce you to near 800 unbuffed agility AFTER SV), this is not a viable DPS spec compared to BM. If you have that sort of agility, your overgeared for Kara anyway, so spec what you want. I very much WANT to be SV, but it ain't happening anytime soon. I know the argument for better trapping etc. If you are running a lot of heroics with a group that understands you purposely gimped your dps for better group utility, fine, its a great spec. But that particular utility has very little benefit for a Kara party. You can try to justify it, but it isn't going to fly. Traps simply are not needed in Kara. Many groups do without ANY hunters. If you have 2 pieces of D3 gear, you are set for Kara. Just swap them out as needed.
Most groups I have run Kara with outside of our TF Group 1 are absolutely stunned with hunter dps potential after the run. I get a LOT of tells, especially from those who have 'Never' had a hunter beat them in raids. I was in one group where we took down Prince, among other bosses of course, where I was 5% above the nearest dps'er (I had about 25% of the entire groups dps). Most people vastly underestimate the potential of the hunter in their group. This is not a brag post. The reason Group 1 ran with 3 hunters for so long is because it was EFFECTIVE, and NOT for their trapping. Beyond Moroes, we just didn't trap much. It was all about the DPS. My best dps right now hovers around 1350 or so on some boss fights. More normal hovers btn 800 and 1100 depending on how much I have to move around.
In conclusion, feel free to spec whatever you want. Its a game. Have fun, or its not worth doing. Just be aware of what decisions you are making and how they affect the raid. If you make a conscious choice to limit your dps due to enjoyment of another spec, make sure the group knows that, as you are potentially affecting the rest of the groups enjoyment by limiting how far the group can progress. I get the most fun (and a LOT of Kara invites) doing the max damage I can pull off. Your mileage may vary.
Kagnus
New Member
For dps, I know whatever Adam is doing on Esua it is just kinda mind boggling. I once ran on team 1 with Azolas as kitty dps, the aspect of feral I focus on (Az currently has 2552ap self buffed), and Esua was over 10% higher than I was on dps.
When I run pure dps on Azolas, I usually run within +/- 1-3% of the top dps spot. Esua was just unreachable. Granted though, Blizzard has admitted that druid dps was not scaling well, and 2.3 gives us a boost. On the 2.3 test server Azolas's ap with the same gear jumps up to 2800ap self buffed. Watch out, Esua
But yeah, hunters are a key dps role in raid runs.
When I run pure dps on Azolas, I usually run within +/- 1-3% of the top dps spot. Esua was just unreachable. Granted though, Blizzard has admitted that druid dps was not scaling well, and 2.3 gives us a boost. On the 2.3 test server Azolas's ap with the same gear jumps up to 2800ap self buffed. Watch out, Esua
But yeah, hunters are a key dps role in raid runs.