New DKP amendments with HK raids

Avesther

Avesther

New Member
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY

NO-SHOW/NO-TELL PENALTY
There is a no-show/no-tell penatly for not showing up for a run without warning, that you are scheduled to run. This penality is -10 DKP. So far, this hasn't been an issue for Redeemed members, we have been very good at letting HK know when we are not going to be available or when we are going to be late. Basically, if you are scheduled to run (not as an alt) and you are not able to make the run, please let Goblit or myself know or post it on the HK forums so you are not subject to this penalty.

ZERO SUM DKP
HK is moving to a zero sum DKP system. Basically it means, the DKP going into the system = the DKP coming out of the system. This truly is a fair way of doing this.

Example 1:
Item #1 (Set piece) = 50 DKP
Item #2 (Non-Set piece) = 40 DKP
Total DKP spent = 90 DKP
Number of people at the raid = 40
Raid Value: 90 DKP / 40 People = 2.25 DKP per Person
Total DKP added to the system: 90 (Reward to the players)
Total DKP taken from the system: 90 (Spent by the players)

Example 2:
Item #1 (Set piece) = 50 DKP (Disenchanted)
Item #2 (Non-Set piece) = 40 DKP
Total DKP spent = 40 DKP
Number of people at the raid = 40
Raid Value: 40 DKP / 40 People = 1.0 DKP per Person
Total DKP added to the system: 40
Total DKP taken from the system: 40

Example 3:
A Typical Ony raid might result with 2 set helms and a couple random items. So it might end up like:
220 DKP / 35 People = 6.29 DKP per Person
Total DKP added to the system: 220
Total DKP taken from the system: 220
 
Gak at what?

The DKP penalty? Its a simple one to avoid, show up or let somebody know you won't be able to make it. Kind a like the real world. If you can't make it to work, call.

Or the Zero-sum DKP system?
Zero sum systems work to alleviate inflation. Under the old system, prior the DE penalty, everybody received 4 dkp, or 160dkp per 40 person raid per boss. If 90dkp was spent on two items, that leaves 70dkp unspent in the raid. At the second boss, it could jump to 140dkp unspent for the raid. This 140point of unspent DKP does not represent peoples ability to get items from the run, it really represents fluff.

for example:

Fresh raid, all members have 0 dkp, Luci goes down for the first time ever and two items worth 40 dkp each drop. Both items are taken. So everybody in the raid gets 2 points (2 x 40dkp = 80dkp / 40 people = 2dkp / person). The two people that have taken items have 40 points subtracted from their 2 points. So they sit at -38 (2 - 40). The DKP system is in balance.

2 people with -38 dkp = -76 dkp
38 people with +2 dkp = +76 dkp
+76 - 76 = 0

Compare that to the old equation

2 people with -36 dkp (4 dkp per boss - 40 dkp for the itmes) = -72dkp
38 people with +4 dkp = +152 dkp
+152 -72 = 80dkp

What does the 80dkp represent? Inflation, and everything that people hate about DKP, especially Odale. When we started raiding with Holicron Knights, all our members had to participate on 3 or 4 (and some more) raids before we got our first item because we had to individualy over come the 80dkp per boss advantage holicron members held over us.

Under a zero sum method, that 80dkp hurdle disapears. Take for example the mage class. Lets assume there are 5 mages, and they have run 5 MC raids, on average earning 1.5dkp per boss under the zero sum method, and during those 5 raids, a mage item drop each time and an average of 4 bosses were downed (remember, the assumption is new raid, everybody started at 0 dkp). Each mage would have 1.5 dkp per boss x 4 bosses per run x 5 runs = 30 dkp less 40dkp for each taking one mage item = -10dkp.

Lets say today, Melko joins the raid for the first time and starts at 0 dkp. If a mage item drop during this raid, to who would it go? Melko, because even though this is his first run, he has the most DKP. Under the old equation, the mages before him would have 4 dkp per boss x 4 bosses x 5 runs = 80 dkp less 40 dkp for the items taken = 40 dkp. Melko would have to over come the 40 dkp hurdle before he could get an item from the run. Which could be some time as 5 other mages have 40 more dkp then him.

==edit==

I understand that these examples are based on a fresh start, it'll be interesting to see how HK grandfathers the old system.
 
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yea the main problem I see is the people who have lots of DKP accumulated already. Someone has 700dkp which I think was the old maximum. What this means is that everyone gets fewer dkp per run, but he is already full and has a free shot at everything for a while.
 
CONFUSED on latest DKP numbers

According to the new numbers I was neg 70 dkp before last MC run. Not true by the numbers i saw on DKP chart.

Also I thought they have 500 DKP cap, so why is 1st person on list at 621????

Hope some one send me my DKP Decoder ring...........:eek:

Thanks

Samuraij
 
Gods_Peon said:
...What does the 80dkp represent? Inflation, and everything that people hate about DKP, especially Odale. ...
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I still dont like DKP, /random 100 or 1000 might work. But i think it would be a bit too late. /random 100 worked just fine in Daoc in high end raids there <shrug>.

Im still confused and ive been on many raids with Klang and no matter what i do, he wont get anything unless the other mages have that item, its simply too late for klangdon, prolly goes the same for the priests. But now i am saving my DKP for Osirys.
 
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hmm...I guess seeing as nobody can explain how /roll 100 would be fair, I'll try and explain how it will be:

A simple random on items would be fair if everybody put in, and has been perceived by everybody else as contributing, an equal share in the success of the group. As soon as somebody percieves it differently, then the whole idea behind /roll 100 being fair goes out the window, doesn't it?
 
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any type of dkp system has its up and downs..but its way better than just having /rand. If RK used /rand I wouldn't have half the stuff I have today, considering how unlucky i'm with those rolls. I'd prbly not do end game...its simple, my type and effort put into the game through the time...

Just imagine this situation...We are at Nefarion after weeks of gearing up in MC and personally I wouldn't want a new priest coming in (even worst having blues/greens, basically not geared in the first place) to /rand and win the transcendence chest piece.

another thing, you have to be smart at what you take in MC...you'll find yourself out of dkp if you just take whatever comes your way. Others have "earned" those dkp. Know what your class will benefit from in the long term rather than taking any epic that drops....like my brother taking strikers mark or whatever at the start, knowing he will be getting the hunter bow...yes i'm picking on my bro, but i don't care if he minds (and i doubt he does) rather than picking on a fellow guildie...
 
Heh, Stoop's got a point, taking strikers mark now would be a waste for a hunter's dkp cause we can down Domo and sooner or later the leaf will get to them. I personally decided to take the bow back then because we were still ages from Domo. You can also try to accquire some epics out of MC/Ony as to avoid using dkp, there's lots of stuff out there which can be obtained, it takes time and lots and lots of farming (chromatic/shifting cloaks, ateambank sell boe tier1 epics for 1k gold). Also HK does not give dkp for ZG incase people were worried about it.

As far as /random goes, Stoop makes a good point, it's not fair to those people that have been running for months and getting geared only to see someone else get something for showing up once in a blue moon. Also people use HAX for rolling!
 
Odale said:
Im still confused and ive been on many raids with Klang and no matter what i do, he wont get anything unless the other mages have that item, its simply too late for klangdon, prolly goes the same for the priests. But now i am saving my DKP for Osirys.
Click to expand...

You do realize you are the second highest in DKP amongst the mages in our current MC group and the person who has more, have both the arcanite pieces that drop of the next two bosses we will be downing on Sunday?

You've only killed something like 26 MC bosses and you are next or close to next in line. Where as Icthus has run 54 bosses and has two items to show for it. His first peice from MC was the covetted grand champion of all priest gear after having to endure killing 47 bosses.

None-the-less, you are saving your DKP for Osyris, so you better hurry up and get him into blues and level 60 to replace Goblit. She's only looking for a couple of items and then she'll likely not be running MC anymore except on a standby basis.

-----

/cry ... before too long I won't be running MC with me darling wife. Prophecy needs to drop more often so that she and I can do other post MC stuff together.
 
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Gods_Peon said:
You do realize you are the second highest in DKP amongst the mages in our current MC group and the person who has more, have both the arcanite pieces that drop of the next two bosses we will be downing on Sunday?

You've only killed something like 26 MC bosses and you are next or close to next in line. Where as Icthus has run 54 bosses and has two items to show for it. His first peice from MC was the covetted grand champion of all priest gear after having to endure killing 47 bosses.
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Be of good Cheer and have patience Odale. I know it is not something that comes naturally for some of us. But, you will get stuff if you want it. It did seem like forever for me to get my drop. I even passed on a tier two item, which was incredibly hard to do, thankfully GP got the item.

But, I can say it is much much much much easier than getting an artifact and then the scrolls to use it and then level it up to use it..... When I put it in those terms it is a realatively short time to run MC.

I really ran MC for 54 bosses???? What a fool.... I could have seen so many sunsets....
 
I really ran MC for 54 bosses???? What a fool.... I could have seen so many sunsets....
Click to expand...

I'm upto 105 + 2 Onyxia's downed. Thats not including all the failed attempts on all the bosses. Team Tsunami just took down Luci the first time October 23, 2005, I and a few others started running with them October 30, 2005. That means some of us have been there through every learning experience.
 
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