New Cataclysm info

I totally agree with Goodwone, I see it as reducing redundancy. Tank gear NEEDS to have stam, armor, and def right now. Not to mention the whole block/parry/dodge nonsense. It's not like you're going to spec a "dodge build" tank or something ... so realy upgrades just link in all of the specs. Really, gear trades for a tank involve survivability vs. threat generation (with DPS being a third thing). So why not simplify gear so that your gear choices involve just that? To me, it makes the game more skill-based because it leads to tradeoffs rather than obvious upgrades. The current stat sprawl makes those tougher. And let's not forget that since classic, gems, glyphs, and inscriptions have been added. So it's not like there's a shortage of choices overall. And some tooltips are out of control ... and not because the item has a lot of subtleties, but to call out a series of redundant stats. How stupid is having to have the whole "XX attack power in bear or cat form only" language on nearly every weapon?

On the healer side ... again, in classic and early TBC, as a resto druid there were 3 core spells (rejuv, regrowth, healing touch) and then one special case one (tranquility). Now, there are those plus lifebloom (which is really two spells in one depending on how you use it), nourish, and wild growth. So that's 7 healing spells to deal with! Not to mention debuff stuff (2) and other special case procs (nature's swiftness and swiftmend and brez'es). So there are a dozen things, really. So you have a mediocre player like me who really can't handle more than 3-5 things, and that's what I do. I don't touch stuff like nature's swiftness or swiftmend any more, because the attention that use to focus on that now worries about wild growth and lifebloom ticks. A good player might do 6-8, and a great player all 12-15. But when you throw 20+ variants out there. I really really doubt that any player, no matter how great, actively trades between then all. Big contrast vs. early TBC when there were only 3-5 spells in the first place and so using downranking allowed great players to triple the options and optimize. So it's not complexity for the sake of enhancing the game or challenging a player, but just complexity for complexity's sake.

Anyhow, overall, I respect Bliz for realizing that the garden does require some pruning every now and then and not just letting sprawl grow and grow. Having few material, quality choices to me is definitely more of a player's challenge than having more empty, redundant choices. It's like Chess vs. Monopoly. Chess is a simpler game ... fewer pieces, fewer rules, etc. But it's the design of those rules that make it a much "tougher" game to master. To me, the Cataclysm changes are along those same lines.
 
Unless they convert our current gear to contain a lot of spirit, i'm not looking forward to this. My MP5 is right were I want it and my spririt is in the toilet. I will wait and see what conversion they do for Resto Shaman.

Well, they aren't designing the system around existing gear. It might screw you up when they put it in, but this won't be implemented until literally weeks before Cataclysm is released.
 
From a PvP perspective, I have to say I'm a little worried about this stamina boost... what's this going to do to people who *should* be squishy, but aren't right now? They may very well turn out to be invincible unless Blizz ups PvP damage so much that the health boost won't be noticeable.
Well, the problem there is that Blizzard never has (and likely never will) balance the game around pvp. They try to keep pvp reasonable if possible, but it's always been a secondary priority. It's the same as cross-class dps comparisons. Blizzard doesn't care if one class is doing way more dps than another, it's all about RDPS vs Boss HP. Remember in BC when nobody wanted a single mage because it was better to just have 5 or 6 spambolt warlocks instead?
 
Last edited:
Try being a priest, I still have to manage my mana :(

I used to have to worry about mana with healsalot but he has 33k mana raid buffed now and over 1k/800 mp5.

I'm just worried that I went through all the trouble to get his gear to where it is (3200 gs) and now I'm going to have to redo a lot of it.

I do think they are dumbing things down way too much. If I didn't have friends in WoW, I wouldn't be playing it anymore. There are no true challenges. Old school Everquest was challenging. Even old school WoW was. It gets easier with every patch and expansion but that's what keep the masses happy I guess.

I am seriously going to be looking into some other MMO's this year though. Star Wars or whatever I find as long as it's a challenge.
 
You guys really seem to be forgetting that these changes will do nothing whatsoever to affect your WotLK stats/gear. These won't be implemented until JUST before Cataclysm launches. This will NOT screw up your current gear unless you just, for some reason, can't manage to quest from 80-85 in sub-optimal gear, which would just be sad.
 
I used to have to worry about mana with healsalot but he has 33k mana raid buffed now and over 1k/800 mp5.

I'm just worried that I went through all the trouble to get his gear to where it is (3200 gs) and now I'm going to have to redo a lot of it.

I do think they are dumbing things down way too much. If I didn't have friends in WoW, I wouldn't be playing it anymore. There are no true challenges. Old school Everquest was challenging. Even old school WoW was. It gets easier with every patch and expansion but that's what keep the masses happy I guess.

I am seriously going to be looking into some other MMO's this year though. Star Wars or whatever I find as long as it's a challenge.

They're dumbing down the stats, not the encounters or the input of players.

Don't mistake these changes for something that they're not; while Blizzard does care about the mass market, they are equally interested in gaining/keeping the medium and hardcore players. I believe the latter is what is causing these changes.

Case in point: you were just talking about how powerful your gear is and how you don't want to earn it again. The gear is a large part of what makes your character powerful, and Blizzard is addressing that, hopefully making the stats more mathematically sensible. While I understand your gear is hard earned, part of the imbalance of the game mechanics is just how powerful that gear (and the talents) is. Blizzard has to fix something if they want to create a more meaningful gaming experience. We shouldn't knock them for addressing the very issues that we complain about on a regular basis (or at the very least is at the back of our minds).
 
Last edited:
A post from the mighty Blues.

Healing and Mana Efficiency in Cataclysm
If you use your efficient heal 100% of the time, then sometimes people will die for want of a quick or big heal. If you use your quick or big heal 100% of the time, then sometimes you will run out of mana. If you use the right heal for the job, you will be awesome and get fat purps.

[...] We want the choice that downranking provided (don't use a big heal when a small one will do) without all the problems of gaming the coefficients of the lower level spells.

[...] Prior to LK, healers wouldn't use their quick / big heal every GCD. They would even stop heals to avoid wasting mana. We're not really trying to bring back cancel macros in a big way, but we would like for the best healers to be the ones who know when to use the right spell at the right time.
 
I totally agree with Goodwone, I see it as reducing redundancy. Tank gear NEEDS to have stam, armor, and def right now. Not to mention the whole block/parry/dodge nonsense. It's not like you're going to spec a "dodge build" tank or something ... so realy upgrades just link in all of the specs. Really, gear trades for a tank involve survivability vs. threat generation (with DPS being a third thing). So why not simplify gear so that your gear choices involve just that? To me, it makes the game more skill-based because it leads to tradeoffs rather than obvious upgrades. The current stat sprawl makes those tougher. And let's not forget that since classic, gems, glyphs, and inscriptions have been added. So it's not like there's a shortage of choices overall. And some tooltips are out of control ... and not because the item has a lot of subtleties, but to call out a series of redundant stats. How stupid is having to have the whole "XX attack power in bear or cat form only" language on nearly every weapon?

You might not realize, but that langauge only appears on weapons if you're a druid. On my non druid toons, I do not see that when I hover over a weapon.
 
Proudfoot said:
[...] We want the choice that downranking provided (don't use a big heal when a small one will do) without all the problems of gaming the coefficients of the lower level spells.

Why don't they just let people downrank again? I didn't play a healer that much back when down ranking was usable (Oddbob was only in his 20s) but it definitely added another dimension to healing. Additionally, the spells are in your spellbook, why cant you use them?!
 
Why don't they just let people downrank again? I didn't play a healer that much back when down ranking was usable (Oddbob was only in his 20s) but it definitely added another dimension to healing. Additionally, the spells are in your spellbook, why cant you use them?!

For exactly the reason they state, the coefficients were impossible to balance. Either the heals were worthless/didn't scale at low levels of gear or on the other side became way too large at high levels of gear. Healers would use really low level heals so that they could sustain healing for a long time and there really wasn't much of a downside to using lower level spells because they benefited greatly from your high spell power.

Also they will be removing RANKS of spells. There will only be 1 rank of any spell and it will scale with level.
 
Back
Top