Avesther
New Member
Nevi,
I'm going to air this because I think people need to understand and recognize this.
First, what Ewoksrule posted on page two is very, very true. It is so true, that it is a self fulfiling prophecy. And it will self fulfil in two ways.
1. You are going to make it happen because everybody expects you to make it happen
2. Everybody is going to do their part to make it happen
First, you are going to make it happen, no matter how positive you are to the contrary. And its going to happen because of number two. Both one and two drive each other. In number two, people are going to do their part to make it happen through a backlash against you. Which is eventually going to lead you to a place where in your mind, conciesly or subconciesly, to say "You don't want me around, fine, I won't be around." And at that point, no matter what, you will slowly or quickly, slip away into the night.
People in the guild, will want to lash out, even if they can control the wanting to do so. The want is still their. People have been hurt and the first instinct is to fight, lash out, hurt the one that has brought about their own hurt. The way I see this whole thing, in one fell swoop I lost two friends. One is not renewing thier subscription and another moved to anothe server. AND WHAT THE HECK DID I DO TO DESERVE THAT? And does either one of you honestly think I am not mad, disappointed or saddened by it? Of course I'm hurt and there is a lot of hurt in the guild by people who felt close to both of you. Believe it or not, and get this through your thick skulls, you are both important to alot of people. Its funny how MMOs have the potential to bring people together eh?
So Nevi, you are going to get a lot of backlash. I wouldn't be suprised if people, whether knowingly or not, ignore you on Fj or Itsuka or you lock. Simple because none of them are Nevi (almost sad how we become associated with our toons) and also because people are lashing out, or people don't know that they are your toons. I would say 25% or less of the guild even read these forums. Your relationship with the guild has now changed. Its never going to be the same. I think maybe SamuraiJ can give some real, recent experience in this. He pulled SamJ to help a guild that was made up with his real life friends, and although he tried to keep active in both guilds, the eventual backlash against him for pulling SamJ, which manifested itself in the guild by the guilds general (not everybodies) utter ignoring and pretending that Powderpuff (probably because they didn't know Powderpuff was SamJ, some it was geniune backlash) wasn't there, that he pulled all his toons and moved them there. I got the ingame email in which he sad he is sick and tired of nobody giving a hoot when he logged on that even the occasional "drop dead" would've been better then the silence treatment. He still has Outsourced in the guild, at my pleading to put that toon in the guild. Anybody who knows SamJ, likely would say that even in Outsourced, you can tell the relationship between him and the guild has changed significantly, and how often do we see Outsourced on? Here is a man who would drop anything on a pin drop to help a fellow guild reduced to a person who I think is filled with resentment to a guild who turned their back on him. And even if he says there is no resentment, I hear it in his voice, I see it in how he types and how he interacts with the guild when he is on.
I fear even that posting this will do nothing more then propagate number two, as part of making the one thing we all hope doesn't happen, actually happen. I also fear by doing nothing and saying nothing, I'm contributing to the same end as well. My only hope is that foreknowledge of the inevitable will at least prolong the result.
I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic. Everybody who has left the guild in some fashion, at some time, in some capacity has never returned to the guild with the same relationship (as a matter of fact, just about everybody, if not everybody, who has left the guild to join another and the return to the guild, has left the game) or has not been able to maintain a relationship with the guild with one two in one guild and another in another guild.
Even given these insurmountable odds, I'm still hopeful somebody will be the first to buck the trend.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
To clarify, while I am disappointed that events occoured to lead up to this, I am even more disapointed that the outcome was what it was. I don't mean to single out Nevi or Where, because lots of hands were in the pot stirring it. I'm disappointed that when the pot boiled over that people were hurt, people who tried very hard to not put their hand in that pot. I'm disappointed I've lost friends. I'm disappointed I foresee the loss of friends.
I'm not immune to my fair share of creating guild drama, my part in Sanctification is not forgotten and its effects still linger and weigh very heavily on me. My stand was no more or less noble then what anybody has done before or since and when ever you stand up against leadership, there is consequence. I've paid that consequence and I continue to live under it and it has permanently affected my relationship with the guild. I won't discuss publically my own personal revelations over the incidents trust me when I say I've paid a dear cost for my part in it.
done for know.
I'm going to air this because I think people need to understand and recognize this.
First, what Ewoksrule posted on page two is very, very true. It is so true, that it is a self fulfiling prophecy. And it will self fulfil in two ways.
1. You are going to make it happen because everybody expects you to make it happen
2. Everybody is going to do their part to make it happen
First, you are going to make it happen, no matter how positive you are to the contrary. And its going to happen because of number two. Both one and two drive each other. In number two, people are going to do their part to make it happen through a backlash against you. Which is eventually going to lead you to a place where in your mind, conciesly or subconciesly, to say "You don't want me around, fine, I won't be around." And at that point, no matter what, you will slowly or quickly, slip away into the night.
People in the guild, will want to lash out, even if they can control the wanting to do so. The want is still their. People have been hurt and the first instinct is to fight, lash out, hurt the one that has brought about their own hurt. The way I see this whole thing, in one fell swoop I lost two friends. One is not renewing thier subscription and another moved to anothe server. AND WHAT THE HECK DID I DO TO DESERVE THAT? And does either one of you honestly think I am not mad, disappointed or saddened by it? Of course I'm hurt and there is a lot of hurt in the guild by people who felt close to both of you. Believe it or not, and get this through your thick skulls, you are both important to alot of people. Its funny how MMOs have the potential to bring people together eh?
So Nevi, you are going to get a lot of backlash. I wouldn't be suprised if people, whether knowingly or not, ignore you on Fj or Itsuka or you lock. Simple because none of them are Nevi (almost sad how we become associated with our toons) and also because people are lashing out, or people don't know that they are your toons. I would say 25% or less of the guild even read these forums. Your relationship with the guild has now changed. Its never going to be the same. I think maybe SamuraiJ can give some real, recent experience in this. He pulled SamJ to help a guild that was made up with his real life friends, and although he tried to keep active in both guilds, the eventual backlash against him for pulling SamJ, which manifested itself in the guild by the guilds general (not everybodies) utter ignoring and pretending that Powderpuff (probably because they didn't know Powderpuff was SamJ, some it was geniune backlash) wasn't there, that he pulled all his toons and moved them there. I got the ingame email in which he sad he is sick and tired of nobody giving a hoot when he logged on that even the occasional "drop dead" would've been better then the silence treatment. He still has Outsourced in the guild, at my pleading to put that toon in the guild. Anybody who knows SamJ, likely would say that even in Outsourced, you can tell the relationship between him and the guild has changed significantly, and how often do we see Outsourced on? Here is a man who would drop anything on a pin drop to help a fellow guild reduced to a person who I think is filled with resentment to a guild who turned their back on him. And even if he says there is no resentment, I hear it in his voice, I see it in how he types and how he interacts with the guild when he is on.
I fear even that posting this will do nothing more then propagate number two, as part of making the one thing we all hope doesn't happen, actually happen. I also fear by doing nothing and saying nothing, I'm contributing to the same end as well. My only hope is that foreknowledge of the inevitable will at least prolong the result.
I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being realistic. Everybody who has left the guild in some fashion, at some time, in some capacity has never returned to the guild with the same relationship (as a matter of fact, just about everybody, if not everybody, who has left the guild to join another and the return to the guild, has left the game) or has not been able to maintain a relationship with the guild with one two in one guild and another in another guild.
Even given these insurmountable odds, I'm still hopeful somebody will be the first to buck the trend.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
To clarify, while I am disappointed that events occoured to lead up to this, I am even more disapointed that the outcome was what it was. I don't mean to single out Nevi or Where, because lots of hands were in the pot stirring it. I'm disappointed that when the pot boiled over that people were hurt, people who tried very hard to not put their hand in that pot. I'm disappointed I've lost friends. I'm disappointed I foresee the loss of friends.
I'm not immune to my fair share of creating guild drama, my part in Sanctification is not forgotten and its effects still linger and weigh very heavily on me. My stand was no more or less noble then what anybody has done before or since and when ever you stand up against leadership, there is consequence. I've paid that consequence and I continue to live under it and it has permanently affected my relationship with the guild. I won't discuss publically my own personal revelations over the incidents trust me when I say I've paid a dear cost for my part in it.
done for know.
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