TheComposer88
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toj-Grey
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In the end the only thing that matters is just God and your relationship with him, not everyone around you and what they think is acceptable. You said "My conscience seems to deaden me or prick me", that and the Word (Philippians 4) should be enough of an answer.
I personal don't have any problems with the games I play or the violence portrayed there in, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right to play them from a biblical standpoint. And my opinion on the matter is subject to change based experience, conscience and my own perception of the bible. So thats why I'm saying to go with what you know and what you feel on the matter.
I personal don't have any problems with the games I play or the violence portrayed there in, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm right to play them from a biblical standpoint. And my opinion on the matter is subject to change based experience, conscience and my own perception of the bible. So thats why I'm saying to go with what you know and what you feel on the matter.
I'm no theologian, and I don't pretend to be. I probably have less biblical knowledge than you. But here's my two cents:
We are created with a purpose. Our purpose is to glorify God. To paraphrase: "Whether you eat, or drink, or whatever you do; do it all for the glory of God".
We are commanded to go, preach the gospel, "making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit".
Does this mean that when are not actively in pursuit of God's glory or out talking to people about Jesus that we are sinning? To be overly-legalistic about it (to the EXTREME), then yes. We have put something in the place of God - whether it be TV, video games, sleep, the need to relieve oneself, whatever. Unless you make a conscious decision to fertilize God's creation for His glory when you just gotta go, then you have placed your own needs as more important than God.
Now let's be realistic. Does God expect that we do nothing but read the Bible, stand and preach on street corners, and spend every other minute of our day in face-on-the-floor prayer with Him? Absolutely not. If we spend 8 hours a day working at a secular job (writing computer programs, teaching math in a public school, cleaning toilets, etc), are we saying that we need to do so for a paycheck because we do not trust God to provide for us? Absolutely not.
I believe the key word is Moderation.
Do we allow video games to TAKE THE PLACE OF prayer time or Bible study? Do we choose not to go reach a lost world because we want to get that last 1% map completion in Cursed Shore? That's where we get into trouble.
Maybe I'm rationalizing (I'm good at that!). Maybe I'm missing the point. But here's my take on it:
1. Spend time with God each day. Talk to him (pray without ceasing). Study His Word.
2. Make an effort to develop relationships, both with Christians for mutual edification, and with lost people for their salvation.
3. Be a good steward with what He has given. Provide for your family, as you are able. Bless others. Give back to God out of the abundance (and yes, we ALL have abundance).
4. Enjoy life, in whatever way gives you happiness, but do so in a manner that glorifies God and does not create problems for others.
Romans 14:13-18
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
I'm not sure if that verse is necessarily appropriate in this situation (remember, I'm no scholar), but what I get out of it is this: 1) behave in a way that does not cause problems for others, 2) nothing in and of itself is evil, and that 3) it's not about what we do - it's about the spirit we do it in.
I've been in the same struggle as you more times than I can count, and I continue to look for answers.
We are created with a purpose. Our purpose is to glorify God. To paraphrase: "Whether you eat, or drink, or whatever you do; do it all for the glory of God".
We are commanded to go, preach the gospel, "making disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit".
Does this mean that when are not actively in pursuit of God's glory or out talking to people about Jesus that we are sinning? To be overly-legalistic about it (to the EXTREME), then yes. We have put something in the place of God - whether it be TV, video games, sleep, the need to relieve oneself, whatever. Unless you make a conscious decision to fertilize God's creation for His glory when you just gotta go, then you have placed your own needs as more important than God.
Now let's be realistic. Does God expect that we do nothing but read the Bible, stand and preach on street corners, and spend every other minute of our day in face-on-the-floor prayer with Him? Absolutely not. If we spend 8 hours a day working at a secular job (writing computer programs, teaching math in a public school, cleaning toilets, etc), are we saying that we need to do so for a paycheck because we do not trust God to provide for us? Absolutely not.
I believe the key word is Moderation.
Do we allow video games to TAKE THE PLACE OF prayer time or Bible study? Do we choose not to go reach a lost world because we want to get that last 1% map completion in Cursed Shore? That's where we get into trouble.
Maybe I'm rationalizing (I'm good at that!). Maybe I'm missing the point. But here's my take on it:
1. Spend time with God each day. Talk to him (pray without ceasing). Study His Word.
2. Make an effort to develop relationships, both with Christians for mutual edification, and with lost people for their salvation.
3. Be a good steward with what He has given. Provide for your family, as you are able. Bless others. Give back to God out of the abundance (and yes, we ALL have abundance).
4. Enjoy life, in whatever way gives you happiness, but do so in a manner that glorifies God and does not create problems for others.
Romans 14:13-18
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.
I'm not sure if that verse is necessarily appropriate in this situation (remember, I'm no scholar), but what I get out of it is this: 1) behave in a way that does not cause problems for others, 2) nothing in and of itself is evil, and that 3) it's not about what we do - it's about the spirit we do it in.
I've been in the same struggle as you more times than I can count, and I continue to look for answers.
Patriot
Active Member
I could easily see how actual physical violence could violate the second of the commandments quoted, but I have a hard time seeing how video games factor into that since, at worst, the violence is only resulting in either you or your opponent becoming upset. It could easily become a god, but don't see an issue with casual gaming.
The games you referenced have more things to them than just violence. Mario has violence. Having good moral choices re-enforced that's what I want above everything else in a game or any media. That's why I denounce GTA and still play TF2. In GTA V you are selfish criminals who not only get away with it, but relish in it. For most of GTA V you are basically enjoying virtual sinning (I watched a let's play so I could speak with authority. I didn't buy/play it). Comparatively TF2, which had no plot for the longest time, let me be a hero. When you are the guy who comes in to save his team those are the moments I play for. TF2 at least teaches sacrifice (every time I change classes for the team XD), and the value of being a team player.
Legalistically speaking I guess I do like violence. If I was helping others peaceably build a virtual house I would not enjoy it near as much as helping my team win a battle. At the same time I don't enjoy caving newbies heads in. I desire everyone to have a good game and enjoy it. What does this mean? I always hold making correct moral choices over any violence. So I don't love violence for the sake of violence I love to "fight for what is right", and that's completely different than just "loving violence". Like you said I believe people who enjoy human suffering, by violence or whatever means, are sinning, not those who enjoy the challenge of a fight. There is a time and a place for everything under Heaven. Sin is a mis-timing not a specific act unto itself. Sex is not bad, sex outside of marriage is. Violence is not bad, but violence for the wrong reason is. Context, context, context. I've never held to legalistic interpretations of anything for without understanding the intent of a law they can be twisted to mean entirely different things. Toxic drugs, toxic pollution, or toxic words can physically hurt people just as much as "violent" acts. Does that legalistically excuse responsibility with them? Regardless we do need to be wary lest we love violence more than loving our neighbor and doing right by God.
Also about "loving your neighbor" I'm certain most everyone here knows this, but, just in case, sometimes "loving your neighbor" means violence. Spare the rod spoil the child and if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. These verses infer a need for violence out of love. Refrain from punching a bully as a child, and he grows up to be an adult bully or fail to kill a Hitler, and his ideology spreads leading more to hell. While I don't think Christ enjoyed whipping the moneychangers he still did it because it was more loving than letting it continue.
Legalistically speaking I guess I do like violence. If I was helping others peaceably build a virtual house I would not enjoy it near as much as helping my team win a battle. At the same time I don't enjoy caving newbies heads in. I desire everyone to have a good game and enjoy it. What does this mean? I always hold making correct moral choices over any violence. So I don't love violence for the sake of violence I love to "fight for what is right", and that's completely different than just "loving violence". Like you said I believe people who enjoy human suffering, by violence or whatever means, are sinning, not those who enjoy the challenge of a fight. There is a time and a place for everything under Heaven. Sin is a mis-timing not a specific act unto itself. Sex is not bad, sex outside of marriage is. Violence is not bad, but violence for the wrong reason is. Context, context, context. I've never held to legalistic interpretations of anything for without understanding the intent of a law they can be twisted to mean entirely different things. Toxic drugs, toxic pollution, or toxic words can physically hurt people just as much as "violent" acts. Does that legalistically excuse responsibility with them? Regardless we do need to be wary lest we love violence more than loving our neighbor and doing right by God.
Also about "loving your neighbor" I'm certain most everyone here knows this, but, just in case, sometimes "loving your neighbor" means violence. Spare the rod spoil the child and if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. These verses infer a need for violence out of love. Refrain from punching a bully as a child, and he grows up to be an adult bully or fail to kill a Hitler, and his ideology spreads leading more to hell. While I don't think Christ enjoyed whipping the moneychangers he still did it because it was more loving than letting it continue.
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I think G is on the right track.
I play WoW (in Redeemed, not Forgiven btw) and other games. I don't enjoy the violence per se, by I do enjoy the tactics and strategy. I don't play undead when playing horde and although I have a warlock and death knight, I don't like/enjoy them and play them very little, solely because I am continually wondering if they cross that line that G describes.
I struggle with the world's continual descent into darkness in the media and entertainment industries, where once you had heroic icons, you now have anti-heroes who are more realistic by virtue of lacking virtues.
The world is telling us stories, stories are meant to influence people. I believe we need to both exercise discernment and restraint in our dealings with the world's stories.
I play WoW (in Redeemed, not Forgiven btw) and other games. I don't enjoy the violence per se, by I do enjoy the tactics and strategy. I don't play undead when playing horde and although I have a warlock and death knight, I don't like/enjoy them and play them very little, solely because I am continually wondering if they cross that line that G describes.
Philippians 4:8 said:
I struggle with the world's continual descent into darkness in the media and entertainment industries, where once you had heroic icons, you now have anti-heroes who are more realistic by virtue of lacking virtues.
The world is telling us stories, stories are meant to influence people. I believe we need to both exercise discernment and restraint in our dealings with the world's stories.
Ephesians 6:12 said:
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TheComposer88
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I haven't yet read the full text of this thread, but I did want to at least post a short blurb expressing my encouragement that Evan is wrestling with this issue, that other Christian gamers are giving sound wisdom, and that Evan received that wisdom from others but will ultimately seek the leading of the Holy Spirit on these matters. I feel that posting anything further is more likely to detract from the thread rather than add to it since others have already stated most, if not all, of the ideas I would post in response to Evan's questions.
Thank you all for your participation in this thread. I encourage everyone to continue to wrestle with the questions Evan posted and seek to glorify God through all our activities, including gaming.
Thank you all for your participation in this thread. I encourage everyone to continue to wrestle with the questions Evan posted and seek to glorify God through all our activities, including gaming.
For what it is worth I don't think you are hypersensitive at all Evan. In all we do we should pursue Christ and what is right by him. Unless it paralyses you from being able to make any choice I don't think you can have to much desire to do what is right. Even then better to have to much than not enough. I know God has a plan and purpose for everything so I exclude nothing by saying "it's just a". Just keep doing what you are doing, affirm your feelings by prayer, reading the word, thinking on it and asking questions. Christians won't always agree, but if we all seek the one way one day we all will 
.
As a note I refrained from Dragon Age because of it's homosexual agenda (and the sex stuff). As a player I'd personally avoid that content, so it wouldn't effect me, but media shapes culture, and the push for homosexuality is undeniably huge right now. We have to think about our actions causing others to stumble with our purchases too. 1 Corinthians 8:9-13
.As a note I refrained from Dragon Age because of it's homosexual agenda (and the sex stuff). As a player I'd personally avoid that content, so it wouldn't effect me, but media shapes culture, and the push for homosexuality is undeniably huge right now. We have to think about our actions causing others to stumble with our purchases too. 1 Corinthians 8:9-13
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direpath
Member
I think the second post hit it on the head. Be right with God, first. I would suggest praying on it. Ask God if you should be playing these games. Ask God how to reconcile those things that others have said.
I find that gaming can be an outlet for reaching into the lives of the unreachable. I'm not as social as I used to be in games, but I don't hide my Christianity. In a general chat sense, I dont go broadcasting it because that is just like talking to a brick wall. Amongst a guild or friends I am open and honest about my relationship with the "magical sky wizard" as one friend put it.
I'm sure there were some who looked down upon Jesus for associating with tax payers and prostitutes. Oh wait, there was (Matthew 9:9-13). We are to seek the lost wherever they may be. However, if getting their causes you to sin, then there are other places you can reach the lost. Pray to God and seek the answers. Look inward and ask yourself if you struggle with some sin that may be rearing its ugly head in video games, or if it is just the perception of others you fear.
Thank you for bringing forth this topic as I am sure that it crosses most of our minds as we game.
I find that gaming can be an outlet for reaching into the lives of the unreachable. I'm not as social as I used to be in games, but I don't hide my Christianity. In a general chat sense, I dont go broadcasting it because that is just like talking to a brick wall. Amongst a guild or friends I am open and honest about my relationship with the "magical sky wizard" as one friend put it.
I'm sure there were some who looked down upon Jesus for associating with tax payers and prostitutes. Oh wait, there was (Matthew 9:9-13). We are to seek the lost wherever they may be. However, if getting their causes you to sin, then there are other places you can reach the lost. Pray to God and seek the answers. Look inward and ask yourself if you struggle with some sin that may be rearing its ugly head in video games, or if it is just the perception of others you fear.
Thank you for bringing forth this topic as I am sure that it crosses most of our minds as we game.
TheComposer88
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