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Sry Ultima its a lot of writing to read so I was skimming but from what I understand does this Eon guy believe in Thor and all of the Gods from LOTR? Just trying to clear this up Im a tad bit confused.
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Mr_Eon
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Yeah, it is a bit confusing isn't it? In order to clear things up though, this Eon person DOES believe in Thor but DOESN'T believe in the Valar from the LOTR books. Whatever his inspiration was, Tolkien made those up.
Ultima, it's not that you can pick or choose a God to worship and ignore all the others - Odin is STILL the Allfather, Loki is STILL the trickster etc. It's just that I, personally, find that I have a greater affinity with Thor than with the other gods, and have chosen Thor as my patron God. I still worship the others, but I have a special relationship with him. It's like the way you Christians worship God and the Holy Ghost, but you have a special relationship with Jesus.
Pieman, if you want a sword buy one - that's what I did...
Eon
Ultima, it's not that you can pick or choose a God to worship and ignore all the others - Odin is STILL the Allfather, Loki is STILL the trickster etc. It's just that I, personally, find that I have a greater affinity with Thor than with the other gods, and have chosen Thor as my patron God. I still worship the others, but I have a special relationship with him. It's like the way you Christians worship God and the Holy Ghost, but you have a special relationship with Jesus.
Pieman, if you want a sword buy one - that's what I did...
Eon
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/me Reads what Eon wrote.
*Still Totally Lost and confused*
*Still Totally Lost and confused*
M
Mr_Eon
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The first two lines of what I wrote confuse you?
Ermmm... I can't think of a plainer way to answer your question - what is it that still bothers you?
Eon
Ermmm... I can't think of a plainer way to answer your question - what is it that still bothers you?
Eon
Ultima Avatar
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You phrased it in a weird way Dead Aim: This Eon guy, so he replied from third-person: "This Eon guy does not believe in the gods of Tolkien, but he can relate them to his gods (the Norse gods), and he DOES worship Thor."
So yes. He does believe in the Norse gods.
Ahhh. I see. So do you begin to take up his traits and become "Thoric" as you come closer to him?
So yes. He does believe in the Norse gods.
Ahhh. I see. So do you begin to take up his traits and become "Thoric" as you come closer to him?
M
Mr_Eon
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That's more or less accurate, Ultima - Thor represents and has certain traits and ideals that I find desirable in myself. By taking inspiration and example from him and his exploits, I become a better person myself - although whether I'm becoming more like him is an interesting question.
Eon
Eon
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CAn you worship Loki and generally take up his less-than-admirable traits (i.e. murder of the son of the Allfather) and begin to add them to yourself? Do you see in yourself traits of darkness and evil (though of course these traits you would want to suppress and hide and resist as much as possible)? If you do see such traits do you avoid Loki's path because of his manner of evil and your desire for a better physical life, and such fulfillment you find in Thor?
And can you take up traits from multiple Gods? Like Odin's lovingkindness or Thor's friendly manner and strength or Jormunghand's wickedness (even though it's a giant(ess?)) and still worship all three (indeed, CAN giants be worshipped, like Ymir's carcass)?
Let me try it a different manner: you want to be like Thor. So as you worship and possibly study him you come closer to him. But let's suppose you have in you an inherent trait of self-sacrifice (Odin) and evilness (Loki). As you join up with Thor do you begin to melt away those other traits? Or can you come to Odin, Loki and Thor and exemplify all three traits (though they conflict at times)?
And can you take up traits from multiple Gods? Like Odin's lovingkindness or Thor's friendly manner and strength or Jormunghand's wickedness (even though it's a giant(ess?)) and still worship all three (indeed, CAN giants be worshipped, like Ymir's carcass)?
Let me try it a different manner: you want to be like Thor. So as you worship and possibly study him you come closer to him. But let's suppose you have in you an inherent trait of self-sacrifice (Odin) and evilness (Loki). As you join up with Thor do you begin to melt away those other traits? Or can you come to Odin, Loki and Thor and exemplify all three traits (though they conflict at times)?
ToJ | Dead_Aim
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Thanks guys you cleared it up for me, now my question to you Eon is why do you worship them? Im a Christian of course and we are all monotheistic Ive never really talked to someone who isn't so please explain why you believe in these Gods. You can do it in a PM or right I don't care.
Ultima Avatar
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Ehhhhhh....monotheistic or tritheistic?
It can go both ways, I suppose. Each is distinct in His own manner, but all are One.
Talk like what I just said (sentence prior this) can be very dangerous if said wrong and with the wrong intent...Kenneth Copeland and his Word of Faith crew does this marvellously. IT sounds great. But if you read and listen to what they say, it is horrid.
It can go both ways, I suppose. Each is distinct in His own manner, but all are One.
Talk like what I just said (sentence prior this) can be very dangerous if said wrong and with the wrong intent...Kenneth Copeland and his Word of Faith crew does this marvellously. IT sounds great. But if you read and listen to what they say, it is horrid.
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Mr_Eon
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I was about to say - aren't you Christians pantheistic? God the father, the son and the holy ghost? And the Catholics - they have more Gods than *I* do! They worship all those saints and Virgin Mary. Personally I think that's healthy, having a strong feminine role model as well, although I doubt you guys would agree.
Loki is a funny one - in some cases he displays admirable traits. In the older tales he and Thor made a very good team, and would often work together - I guess there was a parting of the ways though, probably when Loki become more acquisitive and selfish. Selfishness is a trait that Thor looks quite harshly on.
The only thing that Jormungandr (the wyrm that encircles Middle Earth) represents is endless and boundless hunger, and the strength of all the earth too. I shudder at the idea of worshipping it - I wouldn't want a part of that fury or hunger to enter me! The same with giants - you CAN cut a deal with them, but they're basically our enemies and you do well to remember that. I can worship Odin - and I do. The Allfather is many things that Thor is not. He is patient, he is wise - he plans, which is something Thor is also not good at. If I wanted Vengeance then I wouldn't pray to Thor - because Thors anger is like the summer storm, violent and terrible to behold and destructive, but swift to pass. The Allfathers rage though... Well, you've heard the saying "Beware the anger of a patient man", I assume?
I don't think anyone worships Ymirs icy blood, or his blood and bones, but they probably took the place of some of the more common exclamations of surprise in the English language.
Onto Dead_Aim... Why do I worship them? Why are you a Christian? It's because I tried various paths and this is the one my feet keep returning to. I've always had an affinity for the Norse gods, but during my youth I assumed this was a just an interest in the mythology. At the same time, I had problems fitting in as a Christian - there are too many contradictions in the dogma that didn't sit right with me and, as an amateur historian, it felt too much like a coat of white paint slapped on over a rich mural of an older time.
It took me awhile to work out what I was really feeling. I could never stomach Catholicism - a lot of English people feel that returning to the Pope is like comitting treason! I tried CofE but felt nothing. I became a Methodist - but felt nothing. I read and studied and slowly came to the conclusion that my heart was elsewhere. At about the age of 21 I discovered that there were others who felt as I did and, that away from the glare of Tabloid sensationalism, there were groups of believers quietly keeping the old ways alive amongst the ancient stones and barrows of England.
Like being a bird watcher, I suppose, once I was aware of them I noticed that they were everywhere! And that there were lots of different types of various paths to follow. I experimented with ritual magic - which is basically maths! I tried the works of Crowley and decided that there was no way that I was THAT cynical and jaded - I believed in Good and Evil, and I knew which side I supported. I tried Druidism - and discovered that I blamed them for the fall of the old ways. I tried Wicca and decided that they didn't celebrate the male aspect enough for my liking. Finally I became an Asatruuar, where I suppose I should just have gone at the beginning - and I've been happy for the last four or five years.
Eon
Loki is a funny one - in some cases he displays admirable traits. In the older tales he and Thor made a very good team, and would often work together - I guess there was a parting of the ways though, probably when Loki become more acquisitive and selfish. Selfishness is a trait that Thor looks quite harshly on.
The only thing that Jormungandr (the wyrm that encircles Middle Earth) represents is endless and boundless hunger, and the strength of all the earth too. I shudder at the idea of worshipping it - I wouldn't want a part of that fury or hunger to enter me! The same with giants - you CAN cut a deal with them, but they're basically our enemies and you do well to remember that. I can worship Odin - and I do. The Allfather is many things that Thor is not. He is patient, he is wise - he plans, which is something Thor is also not good at. If I wanted Vengeance then I wouldn't pray to Thor - because Thors anger is like the summer storm, violent and terrible to behold and destructive, but swift to pass. The Allfathers rage though... Well, you've heard the saying "Beware the anger of a patient man", I assume?
I don't think anyone worships Ymirs icy blood, or his blood and bones, but they probably took the place of some of the more common exclamations of surprise in the English language.
Onto Dead_Aim... Why do I worship them? Why are you a Christian? It's because I tried various paths and this is the one my feet keep returning to. I've always had an affinity for the Norse gods, but during my youth I assumed this was a just an interest in the mythology. At the same time, I had problems fitting in as a Christian - there are too many contradictions in the dogma that didn't sit right with me and, as an amateur historian, it felt too much like a coat of white paint slapped on over a rich mural of an older time.
It took me awhile to work out what I was really feeling. I could never stomach Catholicism - a lot of English people feel that returning to the Pope is like comitting treason! I tried CofE but felt nothing. I became a Methodist - but felt nothing. I read and studied and slowly came to the conclusion that my heart was elsewhere. At about the age of 21 I discovered that there were others who felt as I did and, that away from the glare of Tabloid sensationalism, there were groups of believers quietly keeping the old ways alive amongst the ancient stones and barrows of England.
Like being a bird watcher, I suppose, once I was aware of them I noticed that they were everywhere! And that there were lots of different types of various paths to follow. I experimented with ritual magic - which is basically maths! I tried the works of Crowley and decided that there was no way that I was THAT cynical and jaded - I believed in Good and Evil, and I knew which side I supported. I tried Druidism - and discovered that I blamed them for the fall of the old ways. I tried Wicca and decided that they didn't celebrate the male aspect enough for my liking. Finally I became an Asatruuar, where I suppose I should just have gone at the beginning - and I've been happy for the last four or five years.
Eon
ToJ | Dead_Aim
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I have found it more to be Catholics and Christians. Catholics seem to seperate themselves from the rest of us. Which is fine with me if they want to support things such as gay marriage and they have such problems as rape/sexual harrassment in the church.
Ultima Avatar
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And "Christians" don't rip people off of cash or whatnot. "Christians" don't lie. "Christians" most definitely don't kill in the name of God. "Christians" surely don't steal money from their mindless sheep followers, errr, "congregation."
Judge not, les ye be judged. Matthew 7. Read it last night and it seemed as if it was written just for me.
An interesting story Eon...thanks for the clearing up of exactly which one Jormungandr is.
But I have a question: aren't the Druids' point TO preserve the past through life?
Judge not, les ye be judged. Matthew 7. Read it last night and it seemed as if it was written just for me.
An interesting story Eon...thanks for the clearing up of exactly which one Jormungandr is.
But I have a question: aren't the Druids' point TO preserve the past through life?
P
pieman3141
Guest
one of the druids' jobs was to retain history, as the Celts/Gauls did not have a written tradition. Ogham was isolated to Ireland and parts of Scotland, while the south never invented their own, but borrowed Latin.
R
Rand NobleBlade
Guest
Just wanted to set some things right. Christians are most definatly Monthiestic, the Father, Son and Holy spirit are three distinct persons, but all are one God. Now on to catholisism.
I was borne a catholic, and am now a Catholic/ Prodestant. I a spirit filled, speeking in toungs christian, who also gose to Mass on sunday. My wife and i(she to is a catholic/prodestant, she got Confirmed in the catholic church two years ago) we have both found very little major differences between the two.
The church dose not worship Mary or the saints. Now there are some catholics who do, but it is not the norm of the church. In fact a group of catholics petitioned the vatican to have mary named Co-Redemptrixs(Which meanes that she would share the title of redeamer with christ) the vatacan told them that this was incorect teachign and wrong.
The church teaches about the Comunion of saints, it is this teaching that non -catholics misinterperet as worship of mary and the saints. The comunion of saints is basicaly like a prayer chain. If you need some one to pray for you you call them and ask them to pray to God for your need. Well the catholics belive that even though they are in Heaven the saints can here them becasue we are all apart of the body of Christ, and they ask them to pray to Jesus for their needs. Prodestants also use prayer chains alot. The church has undergone massive changes since the Vatican II council. but it has taken fourty years for the seeds laid their to take friut. this is why people still have thier misconceptions and bad feelings toward the catholic church, they havent seen the changes.
Yes there have been a alot of priests that have been accused and have actualy done child abuse. I do not condone what was done and feel that those who are guilty of it should face justice, but i think if you looked deeply enough you can find the same evil lurking in the shadows of any belife system, organized or not. "First take out the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the sliver from your neighbors".
The Catholic church is far from pure, but at its center is Jesus Christ. It belives that he is the only way to salvation, and it has not moved on its stance on many issues. such as the wrongness of abortion, and the death penalty. Also the catholic church dose not support Gay marraiges, nor the Homosexual lifestyle in general. the only Christian denoms that i know of that support the Homosexual lifestyle is the Presbaterian chcurch, and i thinck also the anglacan church of england.
The church has had a dark past but even in its darkest times God Raised up men and women to set it back on the right track. The best modern example i can think of of a catholic that showed Jesus in every aspect of their life is Mother Teressa. She didnt do what she did becasue she thought it would get her into heaven, she did it because every person she saw who was suffering, she saw Jesus in them, and she loved him so much that she would do anything for those who He loved, which is all of us.
I hope this has shed some insight into the mordern catholic church, i'll try to answer any other questions y'all have.
Take care and God BLess
Rand NobleBlade
Paladin
I was borne a catholic, and am now a Catholic/ Prodestant. I a spirit filled, speeking in toungs christian, who also gose to Mass on sunday. My wife and i(she to is a catholic/prodestant, she got Confirmed in the catholic church two years ago) we have both found very little major differences between the two.
The church dose not worship Mary or the saints. Now there are some catholics who do, but it is not the norm of the church. In fact a group of catholics petitioned the vatican to have mary named Co-Redemptrixs(Which meanes that she would share the title of redeamer with christ) the vatacan told them that this was incorect teachign and wrong.
The church teaches about the Comunion of saints, it is this teaching that non -catholics misinterperet as worship of mary and the saints. The comunion of saints is basicaly like a prayer chain. If you need some one to pray for you you call them and ask them to pray to God for your need. Well the catholics belive that even though they are in Heaven the saints can here them becasue we are all apart of the body of Christ, and they ask them to pray to Jesus for their needs. Prodestants also use prayer chains alot. The church has undergone massive changes since the Vatican II council. but it has taken fourty years for the seeds laid their to take friut. this is why people still have thier misconceptions and bad feelings toward the catholic church, they havent seen the changes.
Yes there have been a alot of priests that have been accused and have actualy done child abuse. I do not condone what was done and feel that those who are guilty of it should face justice, but i think if you looked deeply enough you can find the same evil lurking in the shadows of any belife system, organized or not. "First take out the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the sliver from your neighbors".
The Catholic church is far from pure, but at its center is Jesus Christ. It belives that he is the only way to salvation, and it has not moved on its stance on many issues. such as the wrongness of abortion, and the death penalty. Also the catholic church dose not support Gay marraiges, nor the Homosexual lifestyle in general. the only Christian denoms that i know of that support the Homosexual lifestyle is the Presbaterian chcurch, and i thinck also the anglacan church of england.
The church has had a dark past but even in its darkest times God Raised up men and women to set it back on the right track. The best modern example i can think of of a catholic that showed Jesus in every aspect of their life is Mother Teressa. She didnt do what she did becasue she thought it would get her into heaven, she did it because every person she saw who was suffering, she saw Jesus in them, and she loved him so much that she would do anything for those who He loved, which is all of us.
I hope this has shed some insight into the mordern catholic church, i'll try to answer any other questions y'all have.
Take care and God BLess
Rand NobleBlade
Paladin
M
Mr_Eon
Guest
I don't wish to attack you personally, but it's the level of corruption in the Catholic church, and the Catholic church's infamous past that speak against it in this matter.
Whilst corruption, iniquity and brutality can be found in any belief system, as you say, in very few systems has it been embraced institutionally as policy.
Eon
Whilst corruption, iniquity and brutality can be found in any belief system, as you say, in very few systems has it been embraced institutionally as policy.
Eon
Ultima Avatar
New Member
THe Catholic Church doesn't grow and...fester off of negative traits: they TRY as anyone else does, to maintain a relatively "right" life. Moral. God-pleasing. Christian.
But it doesn't always work, and especially in their history, and the fruits of the past is here today. Their amassing of wealth has overwhelmed into today, where their wealths are self-evident in their buildings and lavish ceremonies.
Sorry, but it's true.
Now the thing about begging the saints to intercede is this: it ain't right! They are dead, and the dead can not help us. The dead do not care of or wellbeing, and they exult in the presnece of God and in their life in heaven. They do not care about our pains down here, nor can they talk to God for help. Is God not almighty? Can God not hear every petition on his own? OR does he need the followers to help him out in that?
But it doesn't always work, and especially in their history, and the fruits of the past is here today. Their amassing of wealth has overwhelmed into today, where their wealths are self-evident in their buildings and lavish ceremonies.
Sorry, but it's true.
Now the thing about begging the saints to intercede is this: it ain't right! They are dead, and the dead can not help us. The dead do not care of or wellbeing, and they exult in the presnece of God and in their life in heaven. They do not care about our pains down here, nor can they talk to God for help. Is God not almighty? Can God not hear every petition on his own? OR does he need the followers to help him out in that?