CCGR
Member
There are some chuches that perform gay marriages. It's not biblical and I would not attend such a church.
Misguided questions about stuff including...
- Thread starter -Drelin
- Start date
Ultima Avatar
New Member
EXTORTION? God didn't have to die for you...we could all still be in the Grave, and our location in there would be dependent on our actions in life, as it was before Jesus' death and resurrection: if we are righteous, we live in the part of the grave in God's grace, and if not, well then we are placed into a burning holding chamber.
Now for you Damar....in both your posts since, you have yet to answer a proper response, instead of dodging behind: oh your religion is intolerant, unbased, wicked, hypocritical, and self-righteous. YOU quit spouting off what you hear, and answer ME with a proper response, one that shows thought and the fact that God did give us a brain.
You have not shown me that in ALL your posts. Tell me: why are you always bashing the faith and not supporting your reasoning? What is wrong with the pastors' sermons that you find confusing? If there is any, tell me and I will try my teenage best to answer.
As to homophobia: that's a fear of being gay. JEWS were told by God that homosexuality is a wicked, wicked thing to do, and they got pissed at those people. Sodom and Gomorrah incited God's wrath on it. GAYFEST 2003: HEAD OVER TO THE FERTILE CRESCENT! I do not condone homosexuality. I do not hang out with gays, I frequently make fun of them cruelly. There. I said it. Now what? What is your next response to that? I don't like the homosexuals, and homosexuality itself is just screwed up. Man and woman were made for each other, not man and man. Men don't have kids: women do. Being gay is not what God created us for. Read Romans. It expounds on lesbianism and male gayness as terrible stuff. And that's not just a JEW speaking, but a CHRISTIAN.
And porn is not something I like, and it is a sin, in a sense. Gawking and lusting after naked pictures of women/men/children is not something that I would encourage, and something that I would fight. To live in it is not Christian. It is against God. But you know, back in the days, Jews couldn't really do porn that well, what with papyrus and scrolls and clay tablets and all.
This is not intrusion: telling others my faith is not intrusion. As for MY KIND, I love it. The fact that MY KIND is not allowed to share ITS faith in the public educational system, and is shunned from public gatherings doesn't down me. The fact that EVERY RELIGION but CHRISTIANITY is heard and loved doesn't bug me. God said it would happen. Why should I be surprised that Buddhism, New Age, Taoism, Ba'i, Hinduism, Islam, Atheism, Agnosticism, and every other religion BUT CHRISTIANITY be accepted? I'm not. Not much surprises me.
And, um, our God is the only one that says, "Believe ON me, love me, love your neighbors, obey me, keep my commandments and you shall live." OUR GOD IS THE ONLY ONE like that. ALlah's not like that. No! He has a whole book of how to live, and to him, you are saved if he likes you, and he likes you if do good stuff for him. I won't even get into the hierarchies of other religions: they are screwed up. Greek religion! The Greeks' laws would sentence to death many actions the gods performed. Christianity cannot condemn its own God for our God has not committed any sin. Hinduism is confusing and twisted, with the manipulative idea of reincarnation instilled in it, and did you know that gods are made by hand, the household gods? You make up your own gods. Give them traits, give them an appearance, and worship them. That's not right.
Please, give me an argument to fight Damar.
And DON'T POST another lame reply like the ones you have been doing. I want a debate. Not a henpecking fight from you. So far, I think I'm the only one even listing reasons for my belief, and you have so far only said negative stuff about my faith...."Coincedence? I think not."
Now for you Damar....in both your posts since, you have yet to answer a proper response, instead of dodging behind: oh your religion is intolerant, unbased, wicked, hypocritical, and self-righteous. YOU quit spouting off what you hear, and answer ME with a proper response, one that shows thought and the fact that God did give us a brain.
You have not shown me that in ALL your posts. Tell me: why are you always bashing the faith and not supporting your reasoning? What is wrong with the pastors' sermons that you find confusing? If there is any, tell me and I will try my teenage best to answer.
As to homophobia: that's a fear of being gay. JEWS were told by God that homosexuality is a wicked, wicked thing to do, and they got pissed at those people. Sodom and Gomorrah incited God's wrath on it. GAYFEST 2003: HEAD OVER TO THE FERTILE CRESCENT! I do not condone homosexuality. I do not hang out with gays, I frequently make fun of them cruelly. There. I said it. Now what? What is your next response to that? I don't like the homosexuals, and homosexuality itself is just screwed up. Man and woman were made for each other, not man and man. Men don't have kids: women do. Being gay is not what God created us for. Read Romans. It expounds on lesbianism and male gayness as terrible stuff. And that's not just a JEW speaking, but a CHRISTIAN.
And porn is not something I like, and it is a sin, in a sense. Gawking and lusting after naked pictures of women/men/children is not something that I would encourage, and something that I would fight. To live in it is not Christian. It is against God. But you know, back in the days, Jews couldn't really do porn that well, what with papyrus and scrolls and clay tablets and all.
This is not intrusion: telling others my faith is not intrusion. As for MY KIND, I love it. The fact that MY KIND is not allowed to share ITS faith in the public educational system, and is shunned from public gatherings doesn't down me. The fact that EVERY RELIGION but CHRISTIANITY is heard and loved doesn't bug me. God said it would happen. Why should I be surprised that Buddhism, New Age, Taoism, Ba'i, Hinduism, Islam, Atheism, Agnosticism, and every other religion BUT CHRISTIANITY be accepted? I'm not. Not much surprises me.
And, um, our God is the only one that says, "Believe ON me, love me, love your neighbors, obey me, keep my commandments and you shall live." OUR GOD IS THE ONLY ONE like that. ALlah's not like that. No! He has a whole book of how to live, and to him, you are saved if he likes you, and he likes you if do good stuff for him. I won't even get into the hierarchies of other religions: they are screwed up. Greek religion! The Greeks' laws would sentence to death many actions the gods performed. Christianity cannot condemn its own God for our God has not committed any sin. Hinduism is confusing and twisted, with the manipulative idea of reincarnation instilled in it, and did you know that gods are made by hand, the household gods? You make up your own gods. Give them traits, give them an appearance, and worship them. That's not right.
Please, give me an argument to fight Damar.
And DON'T POST another lame reply like the ones you have been doing. I want a debate. Not a henpecking fight from you. So far, I think I'm the only one even listing reasons for my belief, and you have so far only said negative stuff about my faith...."Coincedence? I think not."
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Look at definitions 1 and 2, this is exactly what you yourself describe god as doing. Swear fealty to me or suffer the worst punishment imaginable. That is extortion plain and simple.[b said:
As for your hatred of homosexuals... What can I say you really dont have a reason to dislike it other than "god said so". Some people say its not natural... well neither is Gatoraide or plastic, etc... Since when was it so important for humans to be natural? God doesn't give a reason either, he only commands hate. Hating someone because of what they are sexually attracted to (something most people have no control over) is no different from hating someone just for having darker skin.
ummmmmmmmmmmm[b said:
I'm sorry but do we live on the same planet? I can't go anywhere without seeing the affect of christian morals on our society. No gay marriages, no prostitution, pornography is a bad thing, sex is a sin... as for the public schools, we strive in this country for NO religion to be endorsed. Those other religions are to be seperated from the state in the same manner and I challenge you to show me one instance of the law being broken with anything BUT christianity. Do those courthouses in the south have copies of the seven noble truths of Buddhism? Do they have the muslim pillars of faith posted on their walls? The answer is a resounding NO. Many courthouses DO however have the ten commandments displayed, the sole representation of a religion in a government building of law, and a clear violation of the constitution.
Kidan
Moderator
Not extoration
Extoration denotes that if we don't give something we will be punished.
What you seem to misunderstand is we are destined for the punishment, it is the cost of our sin, what God's gift is, is escape from that punishment.
Sexual sin be it fornication, homosexuality, or adultery is wrong. Plain and simple.
That does not denote hatred and it's foolishness to say it does.
I can say murder is sin and wrong, but that doesn't mean I hate murderers. The same thing applies to those who commit sexual sins.
As for the ten commandments, they are a basis for our laws. This nation, whether you wish to accept it or not, was funded on Christain principles. For courthouses to display them, shows not Religious favoritism, but rather a knowledge of the historical signifigance they played on our culture and laws. It's like the courthouse that had to buy $300 ( or so) curtains just because their window happened to be a stained-glass window which was from the spot's previous building. A historical reference covered up, due to the fact that the previous building was a church.
Extoration denotes that if we don't give something we will be punished.
What you seem to misunderstand is we are destined for the punishment, it is the cost of our sin, what God's gift is, is escape from that punishment.
Sexual sin be it fornication, homosexuality, or adultery is wrong. Plain and simple.
That does not denote hatred and it's foolishness to say it does.
I can say murder is sin and wrong, but that doesn't mean I hate murderers. The same thing applies to those who commit sexual sins.
As for the ten commandments, they are a basis for our laws. This nation, whether you wish to accept it or not, was funded on Christain principles. For courthouses to display them, shows not Religious favoritism, but rather a knowledge of the historical signifigance they played on our culture and laws. It's like the courthouse that had to buy $300 ( or so) curtains just because their window happened to be a stained-glass window which was from the spot's previous building. A historical reference covered up, due to the fact that the previous building was a church.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
ummmmmmmmmm
What God are we talking about Mustard? My God doesn't command hate...he commands love...as for gays, well, I'm not to hate them, but you know, I kinda do. Call it intolerance. Raise Cain about it again, like when I said "infiltrated by the queer." Come on! I don't like gays, I don't like homosexuality, and I refuse to hang out with gays. God saysd for us to evangelize to all, though. So I'm supposed to preach even to the gays, but I'm not to be a pansy preacher, like we have so many, that say being gay is fine, because God loves you despite the fact. You cannot be a Christian and be gay, or be bisexual, at the same time. It is like saying water can be fire at the same time. Impossible.
I will evangelize, but I will not associate...is that possible? I dunno. Is it hate? Or is it just "misinformation?" To be politically correct, I'll just say I'm intolerant of gays. Satisfied?
God is not standing above us and saying "OBEY ME OR DIE!" though we shall burn in the lake of fire after judgement if we do not believe in Christ's death for us. Here's what it boils down to: God did not die to have us laugh at the idea of God even existing. He did not create us to make fun of and mock God, or to disbelieve in Him. He created us to worship him. That's it. And we do not. If you make a little sperm that unites with a little egg and makes a kid out of all that, do you expect that kid to be properly trained to obey its parents? Or to listen up? To love others? To obey teachers, and not do drugs? Or do you just make the kid and drop it on the floor, and expect it to get up, grow up, get a job, feed and school and shelter itself? No. We're babies to God. We have to be taken care of. BUt if we just spit in his face and ignore him, umm, I think that calls for a major spanking.
Perhaps I'm making God out as the bad guy again. Perhaps I'm not. What have you to offer? Can you only compare God to a prison guard, we the prisoner, and this world our cell, and if we so much as mess up we're shot on the spot? No. THAT'S A TYRANT. Giving us almost infinite chances to repent to God is not being a tyrant.
God is not extorting us to listen to him. We can live our life separate of God, as you are quite easily doing right now Mustard. Has he wiped you out yet? No. I think you can safely refute every post you've made about a tyrannical God who will kill you on your first slip-up. Because, if you live according to the world, you have already committed one major sin against God: and that is refusing to accept Christ as Savior and live in God. So? That's one sin. And that sin gives you permission to do all sins. Do you do them? Have you? Really? I thought so. You will never know if God exists until the end, and then you just might be wrong that he doesn't....and that's where you are in serious jeopardy.
Ahem. As any educated man of history would realize....we are not founded on Hinduism, not on Islam, not in Judaism, but on Christianity. WAS FOUNDED. We are no longer there. WE believe in freedom from religion. PLease note the choice of words: from religion. Not of religion. Most religions are encouraged but Christianity, and if not, then all religion is encouraged not to be.
Why? Why do people detest the idea of someone more powerful than they? IS it so terrible? Is the idea that someone intelligent created you? Is it so difficult to love that creator? Obviously so.
Christianity is very muted in this country, my friend Mustard. Christianity can share its thoughts on walls and on fliers, but they are for the most part, ignored. Sure we have megachurches, sure we have Billy Graham, sure we have televangelists, but don't you dare forget that on the same channels Billy Graham is aired on, so is Shirley Maclaine, so is Margaret Sanger's spawn, so is the New Age Movement, so is the programs with buku sexual content, ultra-violence, and every possible thing that could constitute as sinful. If anything, I find Christianity heavily negated by the sins of this world that are so well advertised.
And, uh, to date, the Constitution has yet to be changed, or amended for a millionth time. So far, the fact about freedom of the people, for the people, by the people, still lives on today. And I don't recollect ever seeing the word religion in the Constitution....are we talking about the same America here?
And to date.....Christians don't proclaim sex is a sin, if they're true Christians. God allows sex....he made it as the way for the continuation of the human species...derrr. We may say sex outside marriage is wrong, but sex in it of itself is not...how else did those guys who proclaim that get here?
What God are we talking about Mustard? My God doesn't command hate...he commands love...as for gays, well, I'm not to hate them, but you know, I kinda do. Call it intolerance. Raise Cain about it again, like when I said "infiltrated by the queer." Come on! I don't like gays, I don't like homosexuality, and I refuse to hang out with gays. God saysd for us to evangelize to all, though. So I'm supposed to preach even to the gays, but I'm not to be a pansy preacher, like we have so many, that say being gay is fine, because God loves you despite the fact. You cannot be a Christian and be gay, or be bisexual, at the same time. It is like saying water can be fire at the same time. Impossible.
I will evangelize, but I will not associate...is that possible? I dunno. Is it hate? Or is it just "misinformation?" To be politically correct, I'll just say I'm intolerant of gays. Satisfied?
God is not standing above us and saying "OBEY ME OR DIE!" though we shall burn in the lake of fire after judgement if we do not believe in Christ's death for us. Here's what it boils down to: God did not die to have us laugh at the idea of God even existing. He did not create us to make fun of and mock God, or to disbelieve in Him. He created us to worship him. That's it. And we do not. If you make a little sperm that unites with a little egg and makes a kid out of all that, do you expect that kid to be properly trained to obey its parents? Or to listen up? To love others? To obey teachers, and not do drugs? Or do you just make the kid and drop it on the floor, and expect it to get up, grow up, get a job, feed and school and shelter itself? No. We're babies to God. We have to be taken care of. BUt if we just spit in his face and ignore him, umm, I think that calls for a major spanking.
Perhaps I'm making God out as the bad guy again. Perhaps I'm not. What have you to offer? Can you only compare God to a prison guard, we the prisoner, and this world our cell, and if we so much as mess up we're shot on the spot? No. THAT'S A TYRANT. Giving us almost infinite chances to repent to God is not being a tyrant.
God is not extorting us to listen to him. We can live our life separate of God, as you are quite easily doing right now Mustard. Has he wiped you out yet? No. I think you can safely refute every post you've made about a tyrannical God who will kill you on your first slip-up. Because, if you live according to the world, you have already committed one major sin against God: and that is refusing to accept Christ as Savior and live in God. So? That's one sin. And that sin gives you permission to do all sins. Do you do them? Have you? Really? I thought so. You will never know if God exists until the end, and then you just might be wrong that he doesn't....and that's where you are in serious jeopardy.
Ahem. As any educated man of history would realize....we are not founded on Hinduism, not on Islam, not in Judaism, but on Christianity. WAS FOUNDED. We are no longer there. WE believe in freedom from religion. PLease note the choice of words: from religion. Not of religion. Most religions are encouraged but Christianity, and if not, then all religion is encouraged not to be.
Why? Why do people detest the idea of someone more powerful than they? IS it so terrible? Is the idea that someone intelligent created you? Is it so difficult to love that creator? Obviously so.
Christianity is very muted in this country, my friend Mustard. Christianity can share its thoughts on walls and on fliers, but they are for the most part, ignored. Sure we have megachurches, sure we have Billy Graham, sure we have televangelists, but don't you dare forget that on the same channels Billy Graham is aired on, so is Shirley Maclaine, so is Margaret Sanger's spawn, so is the New Age Movement, so is the programs with buku sexual content, ultra-violence, and every possible thing that could constitute as sinful. If anything, I find Christianity heavily negated by the sins of this world that are so well advertised.
And, uh, to date, the Constitution has yet to be changed, or amended for a millionth time. So far, the fact about freedom of the people, for the people, by the people, still lives on today. And I don't recollect ever seeing the word religion in the Constitution....are we talking about the same America here?
And to date.....Christians don't proclaim sex is a sin, if they're true Christians. God allows sex....he made it as the way for the continuation of the human species...derrr. We may say sex outside marriage is wrong, but sex in it of itself is not...how else did those guys who proclaim that get here?
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Ultima you and I will never agree, you value faith above all else while I value logic. You tell me god hates homosexuality, and sex without marriage and thats all you need to believe it down to your core. I have to ask why, what harm does it do? God gives no reason for why these are sins and I can find no reason on my own. It's enough for you to just shrug your shoulders no matter what happens, no matter how little sense it makes and say it must be gods plan, staying faithful. I however need to know why, I need to see gods motives and his reasoning. I need evidence and arguments to back up his claims, I need answers which I do not get. I can't help that, its just the way I am. I couldn't fully believe in god if I wanted to, I am incapable of blind unwavering faith. And if simply having such a personality secures my fate in eternal torment then so be it, I really have no choice. I won't argue with you more on this subject since we are going in circles and getting nowhere.
And yet they're still rampant, aren't they? So obviously there was very little actual effect.[b said:Quote[/b] (MeanMrMustard @ Feb. 12 2003,6:17)][b said:Quote[/b] ]
ummmmmmmmmmmm
I'm sorry but do we live on the same planet? I can't go anywhere without seeing the affect of christian morals on our society. No gay marriages, no prostitution, pornography is a bad thing, sex is a sin...
Just had to throw that in there. Been a while since I've been on these boards, and I feel to tired and too behind to continue...then again, that probably won't stop me, hehe. But if you dont see me respond, that's why...toodles.
M
Mr_Eon
Guest
We're playing the sickest carny ride ever made, boys and girls. God isn't simply judge at the end of your life, he is the overtyrant who made the laws, determined the variables and even determined what drives, motivates and affects your life. According to your doctrine.
How you can be so blind to the way Christianity is rammed down our throats 24/7 - can I walk down the highstreet to go shopping on a Saturday without some microphoned freak bellowing about Jesus at me? No. Do Buddhists come to my door and try to convert me when I'm home sick with a cold? No. I can't remember the last time that a Wiccan threatened me with eternal ####ation because I won't and can't believe the way he does.
It's always the "big three" isn't it? Jews. Christians. Muslims. Intolerant wankers, the lot of you - and each as blind to your similarities are you are devoted in your hatred for each other. The only good thing about it is that, these days, we only catch the indirect fallout that your eternal war on each other causes.
Eon
(Who is tired and grumpy today!)
How you can be so blind to the way Christianity is rammed down our throats 24/7 - can I walk down the highstreet to go shopping on a Saturday without some microphoned freak bellowing about Jesus at me? No. Do Buddhists come to my door and try to convert me when I'm home sick with a cold? No. I can't remember the last time that a Wiccan threatened me with eternal ####ation because I won't and can't believe the way he does.
It's always the "big three" isn't it? Jews. Christians. Muslims. Intolerant wankers, the lot of you - and each as blind to your similarities are you are devoted in your hatred for each other. The only good thing about it is that, these days, we only catch the indirect fallout that your eternal war on each other causes.
Eon
(Who is tired and grumpy today!)
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Schweetness!
But I don't go bang on people's door for Christianity: I do it to ask if I can mow their lawn for ten bucks or so.
And, uh, the people who do bang on the door are JWs, as far as I see. I saw a pair of them do it yesterday! It was freaky: they would walk up, knock on the door, had fliers and all this, and would walk off, walk up, knock, walk off. Scary.
Listen up: God made the rules. You don't have to play by them. It's a smart idea if you do, but you don't have to. That's called sin. If the book lays down rules for the game, you play by them, or you get kicked out of the game. Simple as that. The Bible's laid down our rules for living, and if we don't abide from them, dangnation, we are out of the game. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: "The wages of sin is DEATH!" Simple as that. Maybe one of you, Mustard, Eon, or Damar, will get up and gleefully point out another analogy of mine: "You're just digging yourself into a corner, Ultima! You're again making God out as a tyrant!" Believe what you will. What can I say? That God is out to get me? That God is out to tear down my home with lightning if I don't repent, like Zeus? That he's out to send me to hell? No. He does not do that. The Word is there to inform you of what is going on in life, what will happen if you do this or that. And that goes for good things, too. If you obey God, then you are rewarded. Don't obey, well, bad stuff happens. What more can I say? He's my king. And a king punishes dissenters, or exiles them. He rewards loyal followers. That's not tyranny. Or else George Bush is a tyrant, as was anyone before him in the presidency.
If you wanna know what I think? I can't walk down the street without having the world crammed down my throat. Ranging from sex to beer to guns to clubs to stores to playgrounds to milk to education to doctors to amusement parks: almost anything BUT God. And why is that? Why, because this world is not of GOD! Imagine. Now, I do see lots of Christian signs, ads for churches, "Smile, Jesus loves you" stuff and all that. But, umm, in comparison to what I see about the world...? Try 1 to 10,000,000.
In my town, there is one dude in a van who preaches God to the people. And that's not freakish: he's just ministering out of a van, maybe because a pastor is rather situated in two places: his office and the pulpit. So ministering to those who may not go to church, or reinforcing those that do, is not freakish. Some people may be, but this one guy is not. And that's cool.
A true Christian, a wise Christian, will not "threaten" you with hell. He will tell you of it, not jump up and down on your doormat, frothing at the mouth, his eyes put out for religious zeal and scream, "YOU'RE GONNA GO TO HELL IF YOU DON'T REPENT AND BE SAVED! YOU'RE GONNA GO TO HELL!"
I do not. I just talk to kids like me, in a basketball game, in biking, in church, in school, whatever. Just ask em their opinions about God, stuff like that, what do they think God means, what is God to them, etc. I don't corner them, twist their arms and say, "Love God or die!"
And you know, beliefs have a tendency to conflict. Jews, Muslims and Christians hate each other BECAUSE OF THE CRUSADES. And only because of that. We have no other reason to, except that what spawned after the Crusades was lots of little crusades, fights, verbal and physical, and such things as that.
But you know, the agnostics, atheists and other believers don't stay separate from us either. And don't deny it.
But I don't go bang on people's door for Christianity: I do it to ask if I can mow their lawn for ten bucks or so.
And, uh, the people who do bang on the door are JWs, as far as I see. I saw a pair of them do it yesterday! It was freaky: they would walk up, knock on the door, had fliers and all this, and would walk off, walk up, knock, walk off. Scary.
Listen up: God made the rules. You don't have to play by them. It's a smart idea if you do, but you don't have to. That's called sin. If the book lays down rules for the game, you play by them, or you get kicked out of the game. Simple as that. The Bible's laid down our rules for living, and if we don't abide from them, dangnation, we are out of the game. I have said it before, and I'll say it again: "The wages of sin is DEATH!" Simple as that. Maybe one of you, Mustard, Eon, or Damar, will get up and gleefully point out another analogy of mine: "You're just digging yourself into a corner, Ultima! You're again making God out as a tyrant!" Believe what you will. What can I say? That God is out to get me? That God is out to tear down my home with lightning if I don't repent, like Zeus? That he's out to send me to hell? No. He does not do that. The Word is there to inform you of what is going on in life, what will happen if you do this or that. And that goes for good things, too. If you obey God, then you are rewarded. Don't obey, well, bad stuff happens. What more can I say? He's my king. And a king punishes dissenters, or exiles them. He rewards loyal followers. That's not tyranny. Or else George Bush is a tyrant, as was anyone before him in the presidency.
If you wanna know what I think? I can't walk down the street without having the world crammed down my throat. Ranging from sex to beer to guns to clubs to stores to playgrounds to milk to education to doctors to amusement parks: almost anything BUT God. And why is that? Why, because this world is not of GOD! Imagine. Now, I do see lots of Christian signs, ads for churches, "Smile, Jesus loves you" stuff and all that. But, umm, in comparison to what I see about the world...? Try 1 to 10,000,000.
In my town, there is one dude in a van who preaches God to the people. And that's not freakish: he's just ministering out of a van, maybe because a pastor is rather situated in two places: his office and the pulpit. So ministering to those who may not go to church, or reinforcing those that do, is not freakish. Some people may be, but this one guy is not. And that's cool.
A true Christian, a wise Christian, will not "threaten" you with hell. He will tell you of it, not jump up and down on your doormat, frothing at the mouth, his eyes put out for religious zeal and scream, "YOU'RE GONNA GO TO HELL IF YOU DON'T REPENT AND BE SAVED! YOU'RE GONNA GO TO HELL!"
I do not. I just talk to kids like me, in a basketball game, in biking, in church, in school, whatever. Just ask em their opinions about God, stuff like that, what do they think God means, what is God to them, etc. I don't corner them, twist their arms and say, "Love God or die!"
And you know, beliefs have a tendency to conflict. Jews, Muslims and Christians hate each other BECAUSE OF THE CRUSADES. And only because of that. We have no other reason to, except that what spawned after the Crusades was lots of little crusades, fights, verbal and physical, and such things as that.
But you know, the agnostics, atheists and other believers don't stay separate from us either. And don't deny it.
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Thats the difference between an elected leader and a king. King's have ultimate power, democratic leaders have checks to their power. I think it's ironic that everyone in America today believe so strongly in freedom, liberty, democracy, etc... Yet when it come to god, they are willing to make an exception. God self appointed himself as my leader, much like a king would. I wouldn't want to live in a country where a king was a ruler, so why should I want that from a religion?[b said:
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Why not? This king loves all people. He created the world. He's almighty. He can soothe your pain. He can punish you for disobeying him. he can reward you for obeying him. You can love him, and he will love you on a personal basis as well. He can help you through tough parts in life. He can keep away your enemies from harming you. He can bless you with tons of stuff. I won't even make a list.
This king did self-appoint himself. Why not? He's almighty. He wanted a people to worship him, and a people to be with in a relationship, and a people who could have a world to themselves, all at the same time. What a king! I would love to see that in a king, or in any elected official.
Now I do know the difference between the two, but just for the sake of it all: George Bush is our country's leader, just as, uh....Britain's got one. The difference is in how they got to that position: one was elected, another was born into it.
God always was, and he always will be. He says as much. He was, and never began. He will be, and will never end. How cool is that? The most faith I can have in Bush is the max he'll be around til January of 2005. Max for now...it may be extended to January of 2009. Maximum. If he's not killed before that, or pull out on himself.
This king did self-appoint himself. Why not? He's almighty. He wanted a people to worship him, and a people to be with in a relationship, and a people who could have a world to themselves, all at the same time. What a king! I would love to see that in a king, or in any elected official.
Now I do know the difference between the two, but just for the sake of it all: George Bush is our country's leader, just as, uh....Britain's got one. The difference is in how they got to that position: one was elected, another was born into it.
God always was, and he always will be. He says as much. He was, and never began. He will be, and will never end. How cool is that? The most faith I can have in Bush is the max he'll be around til January of 2005. Max for now...it may be extended to January of 2009. Maximum. If he's not killed before that, or pull out on himself.
M
Mr_Eon
Guest
See the thing about Kings is, if they cause too much trouble, you can just cut off their head.
And don't think that 1642 is so long back that the Kings of England don't remember it - Prince Charles has already said that if he DOES get crowned he will NOT be taking the name Charles III. It's considered an ill-omened name these days for a king...
Eon
And don't think that 1642 is so long back that the Kings of England don't remember it - Prince Charles has already said that if he DOES get crowned he will NOT be taking the name Charles III. It's considered an ill-omened name these days for a king...
Eon
MeanMrMustard
New Member
George Bush is my leader, but I am free to criticise him. I am free to dislike him, and I am free to disagree with him. And I can do so without any punishment. Why can't I get the same from god? Is god so insecure that he needs everyone to love him? There are things in the scriptures that god does that seem questionable or wrong to me, why am I not aloud to doubt or question god as I can the president? Just look at our debate about communism on another thread, we all pretty much agreed that the main problem communism has had was the totalitarian dictatorships running the government. If you didn't like it in Russia, why do you accept it in heaven? If god is truely loving and just, then why aren't we aloud to question him? It almost implies he has something he doesn't want us to know, or he's hiding something...
Ultima Avatar
New Member
I question God. I question his motives, his purpose, his reasoning, his design, his creation, his words. So far I still live....or is this some robotic replicant of what once was Ultima Avatar?
No. I'm still alive. And I still believe. It's just that at a point, or maybe in several points, like me, in a Christian's life he questions God.
And God has a response for your questions just as the president does for the questions asked him. But you know, about the president, you can't go to him and ask him about your personal life and expect him to have the answers about it all: God does. Sure that sounds corny and lame and all, but it's marvellously true. I've done it. I can't go to my parents, go to a teacher, go to a friend, and expect them to answer my questions about my life: I have to go to God.
And sometimes I question the value of this life: is it worth living through? I highly doubt it at times. I hate this fleshly life. I hate it all. I sin so often, and yet I still carry the brand of Christianity. I feel like I could tear off my flesh as punishment for such blatant hypocrisy.
I wouldn't accept a totalitarian government in heaven, because, frankly, there'll be no need for one: we have God up there. And the only reason for the law is to prevent sin, and there is no sin in this place we go to. "Without the law, there is no sin." God is sinless. He laid down the laws. There will be no need for the law in God's presence.
No. I'm still alive. And I still believe. It's just that at a point, or maybe in several points, like me, in a Christian's life he questions God.
And God has a response for your questions just as the president does for the questions asked him. But you know, about the president, you can't go to him and ask him about your personal life and expect him to have the answers about it all: God does. Sure that sounds corny and lame and all, but it's marvellously true. I've done it. I can't go to my parents, go to a teacher, go to a friend, and expect them to answer my questions about my life: I have to go to God.
And sometimes I question the value of this life: is it worth living through? I highly doubt it at times. I hate this fleshly life. I hate it all. I sin so often, and yet I still carry the brand of Christianity. I feel like I could tear off my flesh as punishment for such blatant hypocrisy.
I wouldn't accept a totalitarian government in heaven, because, frankly, there'll be no need for one: we have God up there. And the only reason for the law is to prevent sin, and there is no sin in this place we go to. "Without the law, there is no sin." God is sinless. He laid down the laws. There will be no need for the law in God's presence.
M
Mr_Eon
Guest
I tried asking those same questions - but there was no answer.
Eon
Eon
CCGR
Member
Mustard,[b said:
your parents/God brought you into this world. If you disobeyed them didn't they punish you or have a right to? Kick you out of the house if you were disrespectful to the respect they deserved?
Eon,
The book of Habakkuk may interest you. This guy has a one on one with God.
Why dost thou shew me iniquity, and cause [me] to behold grievance? for spoiling and violence [are] before me: and there are [that] raise up strife and contention.
Therefore the law is slacked, and judgment doth never go forth: for the wicked doth compass about the righteous; therefore wrong judgment proceedeth.
GOD: Behold ye among the heathen, and regard, and wonder marvellously: for will work a work in your days, [which] ye will not believe, though it be told [you].
Kidan
Moderator
Why do people think you can't question God?
I question Him on a fairly regularly basis.
Job questioned Him, Habakkuk questioned Him, even Christ asked "Are you sure you want me to do this God?"
We can question God, just becaue we don't receive the answer we like doesn't mean we can't do so, and as always we have the choice on whether or not to listen to what God says.
I question Him on a fairly regularly basis.
Job questioned Him, Habakkuk questioned Him, even Christ asked "Are you sure you want me to do this God?"
We can question God, just becaue we don't receive the answer we like doesn't mean we can't do so, and as always we have the choice on whether or not to listen to what God says.
M
Mr_Eon
Guest
Or indeed an answer at all in a lot of cases...
Eon
Eon
Ultima Avatar
New Member
An answer at all? God says for us to ask and we will receive, to seek and we shall find, to knock and be received. If I continue to strive for an answer, I shall find one. God most likely won't descend from heaven and have tea with me and discuss his answer, but he will answer me, in the subtle, silent way God does.
G
Guest
Guest
Ahem.
(Uncle Damar is back, roll out the freakin' carpet)
In my experience, if you work on a problem long enough, chances are you'll solve it. Eventually. Our mind is really good at finding alternate routes when we least expect it. It is called - subconscious. The little process that runs in the background all the time. It gives us dreams, it helps us cope, it even soothes us sometimes when we're ready to blow the gasket. And yes, for most of us it also serves up unexpected solutions every once in a while which conventional thinking couldn't get at. We poetically call it - enlightenment.
But it is no more divine than my computers spitting out query results when I run a few lines of T-SQL against a database. It's analysis. It's chemistry. And it's all YOU.
Now, you can always choose to write the enlightenment to the bearded man in the clouds, but why give up the credit when it's due to YOU?..
That's what Uncle Damar has trouble getting his geriatric brain around...
(Uncle Damar is back, roll out the freakin' carpet)
In my experience, if you work on a problem long enough, chances are you'll solve it. Eventually. Our mind is really good at finding alternate routes when we least expect it. It is called - subconscious. The little process that runs in the background all the time. It gives us dreams, it helps us cope, it even soothes us sometimes when we're ready to blow the gasket. And yes, for most of us it also serves up unexpected solutions every once in a while which conventional thinking couldn't get at. We poetically call it - enlightenment.
But it is no more divine than my computers spitting out query results when I run a few lines of T-SQL against a database. It's analysis. It's chemistry. And it's all YOU.
Now, you can always choose to write the enlightenment to the bearded man in the clouds, but why give up the credit when it's due to YOU?..
That's what Uncle Damar has trouble getting his geriatric brain around...