I appologize, this is long, and probably fairly abrasive
Goblit said:
*we are still discussing how to reward players with experience for the gear they have and the dkp they are leaving behind and won't be using.
The best idea so far is to give a bonus (onetime) of 5dkp per teir1 epic and 10percent of the dkp they are not going to be able to use.
So does this mean I get a DKP bonus for all the DKP that I have floating around between A team, HK and House of Blah?
Also how many bonus DKP is a legendary worth.
On a more serious note, I have a few issues I would like to raise regarding this system.
First, one time bonuses
if anything players should be penalized DKP for the gear they already have. Having gear in advance is actually a much larger bonus in itself than you might think. In fact just 1 piece gives an obscene dkp bonus.
Lets use this example dkp system to illustrate this. It will be a 0 gain system meaning that the dkp spent gets divided by the number of players in the raid and then re-added to everyone. Lets also assume that only the 40 people in the raid get DKP. And finally lets assume that a tier 1 epic is worth 40 points.
Now we all start out very happily with 50 points, so far so good.
Now lets say that I am playing my paladin and I have 0 pieces of Lawbringer. Lets also say that Azzie has 1 piece of lawbringer. Now while we both have 50 points, he only needs to spend 280 points to get the whole rest of his set. I need to spend 320 points for my entire set. So really, Azzie is already 40 points ahead of me. To further illustrate this point, lets say Azzie has one of the BoE pieces of Lawbringer. Now lets say that on the very first pull, that same piece drops, I win the piece. Now I have 10 DKP and Azzie has 50 and we both have the same gear.
Lets take this further. Lets say that Azzie comes into this situation with his entire Lawbringer set and I come in with none. And lets assume that Azzie and I are just gluttons for Molten Core, we just can't get enough of the instance. Now we both have been to every run and seen every drop for months. By this time I have my whole set. At this point Azzie is 320 DKP ahead of me, but we've both been to every run. Now we are uber awesome leetsauce at MC and we move up to BWL. Our first night in BWL is a huge success and we clear the entire instance flawlessly. But for some reason, Azzie an I are the only pallies that can make it and every boss drops a piece of Judgement. Now its like 60 DKP for a piece of tier 2 then Azzie can now easily get the first 5 pieces that drop, and ends up comming away with 6 pieces on the night, while I only get 2.
Yes this is such a rediculous scenario that it will never happen, but it illustrates the point that comming into the system already having a piece is like comming in that many DKP ahead of everyone else.
Secondly, and I don't want to sound cold hearted here, but I don't think that you should give people DKP for DKP they had in another system. Thier DKP is still over there in that system and if they want to use it then they should go run with that guild.
Goblit said:
Zero sum method
50dkp startup bonus
2dkp bonus cap (for mats hand in)
2dkp ontime bonus
-5dkp noshow/no tell penalty
Zero Sum DKP is great(though I usually call it zero gain)
The problem here is that with your bonuses, its not gonna be zero gain. Again, to show this, lets say everyone starts off with 50 dkp and there are only 40 of us. This is a 2000 point system. If you have 2 point bonuses for on time, and everyone is on time, now we have a 2080 point system. No good. If you want to do this then you would have to say, ok 30 people showed up on time, that means 30*2 = 60 points. Now 60 / 40 = 1.5 points. Now we have to subtract 1.5 points from each player, and then add 2 points to each that showed up on time. So now 30 of us have 50.5 dkp and 10 of us have 48.5 dkp.
With turn in bonuses you can really escalate this. What if I turn in 100 turn ins. Now I get +200dkp, but to keep it at zero gain its 200 / 40 = 5, which means everyone loses 5 dkp and I gain 195 dkp.
This means that anyone who doesnt turn in items or show up on time is esentially getting punished. I mean you can do it, but its kind of a pain. Plus turn ins and on time bonuses tend to create DKP inflation.
Now the DKP punishment, you can go right ahead and do that you don't show up you lose 5, and then the 40 people that are there, split that evenly so you lose 5 and those 40 people gain .125 dkp each.
That pretty much sums up my concerns about the system.
One other thing I would like to mention, when players get added to the DKP system its important to maintain the zero gain setup. If there are 40 people that start out at 50, we have our 2000dkp. Now if another person comes into the system you have to keep it at 2000dkp. So this means now we have 2000 / 41 = 49 (I know its not 49, i just dont wanna use a calculator here). So the new player should get 49 points to start. But this 49 must come from the other 40 players, so each player loses about 1.25 points each when this player is added.
