Marketing the Church

Tek7 (Legacy)

Tek7 (Legacy)

CGA & ToJ President
I'm sure this thread is going to see a lot of controversy, but I'd like for forum members to skim, if not read, the article "Marketing the Church" by David T. Pope. This recommendation should not be interpreted as my agreeing or disagreeing with the author; rather, I want members to discuss the "user-friendly" approach the modern church has taken, think about the issue, and discuss it--while respecting one another.
 
Wow, that's an extremely comprehensive and thought provoking article. Though I did not read it in its entirety, I did read several sections.

While I don't believe the message of the Gospel should be watered down in any way, I disagree that the Puritans of the early colonies had the right approach. Hell should not be deemphasized, but its amazing to think that part of the message conveyed through The Great Awakening in the English Colonies during the 18th Century didn't scare people off.

My church is non-denominational and has two services, a "contemporary" service and a "traditional" service. A generation gap simply exists, and the older generation does not want to listen to a worship team complete with guitar, bass, keyboard, and drums.

I respect this, but why should the younger generation be forced to listen to hymnals? Are the hymns supposed to be treated with the same relevance as Scripture? Why, because some of them have been played in the church for hundreds of years? It seems slightly preposterous. After all, some of the most revered hymns sung in churches today are set to the tunes of drinking songs.

I remember hearing about a letter sent to a church in protest of a newly added musical instrument. Apparently this new instrument was blasphemy and of the devil. The instrument? A piano, apparently around the time churches began to adopt it into their services.

The placement of a Starbucks in a church is absolutely abhorrent though.
 
There are a lot of logical fallicies in that article and misdirected attack angles at the seeker sensetive movement. While I am not a big fan of it (I personally don't think the church has taught enough depth as it is) I don't think some of the points that are made are remotely relevent. Holding on to tradition does not guarantee that the tradition in itself is correct or important to salvation. I think the seeker sensitive movement has its merits, but I also believe it accentuates a larger problem in American Christianity, and that is the depth of the gospel is not taught along a historical approach so that everyone understands what they believe and why it is relevent. I have issues with the seeker sensitive movement, but I don't think that is wrong in the approach it is taking to win over new believers. I think the lack of depth is the primary problem of seeker sensitive churches. I only managed to read the first 1/3, so I'll try and comment more when I finish the article.

I do want to say, I think things like this are good, because it gets people thinking of what they believe and why they believe it and forces them to examine where they are getting their spiritual food a bit more. Thanks for posting it Tek, its a good article to read through.


Cory
 
Thaddius said:
I do want to say, I think things like this are good, because it gets people thinking of what they believe and why they believe it and forces them to examine where they are getting their spiritual food a bit more. Thanks for posting it Tek, its a good article to read through.
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Aye, that's my intent in posting this. You're welcome--and thank you both for posting your opinions. I hope to see much more discussion on this topic in the next week.
 
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I too, disagree that meeting felt needs is a way to grow a church. I believe that meeting the needs of the people is simply our call to minister, that being true Spiritual and physical need. The message of the gospel nor the way to present it should change. I agree wholeheartedly with the article in that the Gospel has become so watered down and preachers are afraid to call sin, sin! The church is proclaimed in Revelation to be neither hot, nor cold...this marketing movement gets us going in that direction.

Marketing the church has the feel of being moneychangers in danger of Jesus throwing us all out! We are called to preach the gospel, not to grow our church. We are called to preach the Gospel, not to sell it! We are called to preach the Gospel, not teach on potty training!

And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; Mark 11:15

The Bible speaks about our "itching ears". Thus, we seek churches that are pleasing to the flesh.

Quoted from this book:
As John MacArthur says, “People's deepest need is to confess and overcome their sin. So preaching that fails to confront and correct sin through the Word of God does not meet people's need. It may make them feel good. And they may respond enthusiastically to the preacher, but that does not mean such preaching meets real needs.

Granted, the views of this article are not popular, but I personally believe they are right on target. God tells us to be Holy as He is Holy. If our church and preacher are not exemplifying that, what can we expect?
 
The main reason I will have to disagree with you, as I disagree with the article, is I know many people who have come to Christ through a seeker sensetive church, myself included. I was baptised in a southern baptist church when I was about 15 years old. This was a traditional hellfire and brimstone type of church. We were taught to fear God and there was lots of scare tactics used to make people feel guilty about their lives instead of teaching them they were forgiven and a new creation in Christ. Every other denominational church in the small town I grew up in was wrong, and only the southern baptist were right. That is the religion I grew up in. Just before my daughter was born in 1999, my wife began going to a church in Arizona. I refused to go with her and chose to continue in my life of drug use and denial of a belief that the church was right. After what I grew up in, I wanted no part of religion. After a few months, my wife got me to go to a Bible study with her and my life changed within the next few weeks. I was 23 then I came to know Christ through this church. I spent over 8 years in fear and misunderstanding because of a traditional church and the way they promoted the Gospel. 8 years I could have been growing and learning more about Christ and becoming a better person and a better husband to my wife. I don't believe the scripture was altered in any way, only shared using techniques that people of the society today would understand. I understood what having a relationship with Christ meant through this church that was modeled from Saddleback church in California.

What bothers me most about this article, is it another wedge in the division of the church that Christ established. Instead of allowing churches to use a tool to reach many that are unsaved, this article points out the flaws of this modern age movement. Traditionalists should be careful though, because it was movements such as this that have got us where the church is today. Martin Luthor and the protestant reformation lead us to break away from Rome. The denominational movement divided the church into what it is today. The schism that exists in the church is because of a lack of acceptance and tolorance of others on how to best spread the gospel and bring people into fellowship with Christ. From the article:

There seems to be widespread disagreement as to what is the purpose of the Church. Warren cites a church consultant who surveyed church members asking the question, “Why does the church exist?” Of those surveyed, 89 percent said, “The church’s purpose is to take care of my family’s and my needs.” Only 11 percent said, “The purpose of the Church is to win the world for Jesus Christ.” When the pastors were asked these questions, the exact opposite response resulted. Nine out of ten pastors said the purpose of the church was to win the world and only 10 percent said it was to care for the needs of the members.
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I believe that the purpose of the church is to win people for Christ. What the other 89% of church members believe comes from a lack of teaching from the church. I believe this is where the modern church has failed (and continues to fail) for the most part. The seeker sensitive movement just happens to show this through to a greater degree in the pastor-congregational teachings. Where the seeker sensitive movement does do more good than almost every traditional church I have ever attended is it promotes in home Bible studies.

There is still a great deal of work to do within Christ's church to fix all of the problems that the world brings into it, but I don't think that dividing ourselves and not teaching the gospel is the way to go. The seeker sensitive movement has some issues, don't get me wrong; but so does every other denomination throughout Christ's church.

I know the context of this verse has to do with something different, but I think it is relevent to how the church has become divided.


Matthew 12:25
And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand
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Cory
 
The fact that every church has issues is very much agreed! I love what Preacher says, "The church is a Spiritual hospital!" and "If the church were perfect, you messed it up when you got here!"

My greatest concern is that the church will get away from the teaching of the Gospel. I once heard a church bus worker state that she thought they needed to teach on other things besides the Gospel. That is very much agreed, but it only takes 5 minutes or less to get the message of Jesus across, and as Christians we should never tire of hearing that message or seeing others come to Christ. To put it bluntly, a church that is not seeing souls saved and lives turned to God is D E A D! It sickens me to see a church that does not give the message of Jesus and Salvation by Grace every time its door is open, for those churches, I vote to pack it up and close it down! Truly, that is the first and foremost purpose of the church, to be founded upon the Rock of Jesus Christ and Him Crucified.

I don't think there is anything wrong with outreach ministries, very much the contrary. A call to fellowship, praying for others, helping them grow, and accountability are very necessary...in their place.

The marketing movement scares me because it seems to make light the things of God. We are called to worship and I think the majority of churches have pulled away from what that really means. I feel a good preacher will take the responsibility of watching for our souls seriously. While there should be preaching on sin, it can be done with Love. Furthermore, preaching is not worth $.02 if there is not a call to reconciliation and teaching on how to daily walk with Christ. Most importantly, a good preacher will explain and understand that it is impossible for anyone to receive a weeks worth of daily bread on a handful of services and encourage the people to spend time with the LORD on their own.

I have not arrived and I don't pretend so. We all need to worship throughout the day and keep a relationship with Christ. We need to learn the true character of God and what is expected of us in presenting our bodies a living sacrifice. We should come to God as our Father, yet there is a fine line in doing that, and placing Him in a box to suit our needs...not knowing Him, the True and Living God, but creating a God that conforms to our desires. You have to preach the Bible and study the Bible to know Him! I feel that parts of the marketing movement my be desiring to throw out the Bible and bring them in at any cost by conforming to the world.

I just feel any church that stands by the teaching of the Bible and honours it as the very Word of God, will have no problem in doing the work of the Holy Spirit, no marketing needed!
 
It's encouraging to see healthy debate on this subject. It's important that we examine the church's motives and attitudes while exploring our own hearts as well.

I'm working up the courage to weigh in on the subject myself, but I wanted to speak up and say thank you to those who have posted so far.
 
If you havn't read Rick Warrens book "A Purpose Driven Life", then I would hold off judgement until you read it and have an idea of the intentions set forth. Until you have listened to a pastor from one of these churches preach (and not all pastors are created equal regardless of what affiliation they are) then it is just hearsay that tries to disect it for everyone else.

http://www.chandlercc.org/audio/andromeda.php

There is a link to our old pastor and the church we attended in Arizona. Give a few of them a listen if you so desire. :)

Cory
 
I was only going by what I read from the article and stating the things that have concerned me about the church in general. I do have a copy of The Purpose Driven Life and have attended ladies meetings that were teaching from it; I never got from it that they were doing away with the Word of God, or rather watering it down to gain attendees.

I trust your word on your old church, but I would not dismiss all Southern Baptists because of it either. One of my favorite is Charles Stanley and I believe he has a very truthful understanding of the Bible and tries to get across the true and entire message. I do understand that you were not dismissing every single one either.

PS
I posted hurriedly earlier and don't want to make light of the change you had in your life. We recently heard a message on a good name. The preacher said that we should not allow the enemy to shun us to live out a life sentence for sins of our past. He told us that when we walk with God, the enemy will shake his finger at us, but our walk and our fruit by the Holy Spirits power will change us to the point no one would ever believe our lives could ever have been away from God. Unless you had been the one telling me, I would not have believed it!
I was trying to explain that for the most part, my complaint is with churches that are not taking the Great Commission seriously. Dead churches exist. Granted, they may seem very much alive and exciting upon entering...but what are they doing for Christ?

Tek, we look forward to hearing your views. I find your thoughts more especially interesting considering you have had recent experience in church searching.
 
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Marcylene, I agree with you 100% that dead churches exist and that a lot of them do not take the great commission seriously. I just don't think it warrents picking on the new movement the way this article and a few others I have read on the subject have. There are churches of all denominations that are not following the spirit, not just the new shiny ones that break from tradition. :)

My wife and I have been searching for a church home since we moved to Oregon last May. We think we have finally found it after a year and a half. A great medium size church that puts God and the Gospel first. I hope and pray that Tek and Ember can find a place to call home soon.

Cory
 
lol okay, I must admit, I have old fashioned beliefs!

I think church searching brings everything to light and your family truly have something in which to compare. I am praying to move to the beautiful Pacific Northwest and have heard that they need missionaries in that area! I am spoiled to living in the Bible belt!!!

The only experience I have had with this type of church thus far, was on one occasion and it felt that I was at a morally correct party house, and not a place of worship. I cannot condemn the whole group because of it, I understand, but I cannot express enough that my fear lies in getting away from the Word of God, the reality of the two choices of our eternal soul, the importance of teaching that first and foremost, while not dancing around avoiding the subject for fear of offending. This I feel is the message of this article. And you are correct, I am going by the article, not first hand experience in attending this type of church. Yet I must say, Benny Hinn and televangelist come to mind while reading this article.
 
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Marcylene said:
lol okay, I must admit, I have old fashioned beliefs!

I think church searching brings everything to light and your family truly have something in which to compare. I am praying to move to the beautiful Pacific Northwest and have heard that they need missionaries in that area! I am spoiled to living in the Bible belt!!!
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Heh, do we ever. Oregon and Washington are in a constant flip-flop for the number one and number two spots in regards to the highest percentage of population not attending church.
 
I love a challenge! lol I hope I can find a good Independent Fundamental Baptist church in the area. I have noticed only a handful in the Seattle area. I would give anything if it were a great bit closer to Roseburg, Oregon! I personally know Brother Clint and Karen Caviness and can promise, these two have always walked the walk...they are really "something else" Christians! He left our church as youth pastor after a lifetime of being there to start Victory Baptist Church.
http://www.heartsforhome.org/

oops, errrr, yea, no church marketing needed at his church, no sirreeeee:)
 
If you like good audios here are a few from Olive Tree Ministries. (they are also against this new movement) They are a good listen whether you agree with them 100% or not. if you want to check out more of Jan Markell's audios, the web address is www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3

Hour one and two: Is Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life" healthy for the church today? How about the whole "seeker-sensitive movement" also known as the "church growth movement"? Two pastors take differing positions during the two hour discussion/debate. There are two sides to the story.
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Hour 1
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/file_info/download.php?file=OTM2005_02_19A.mp3

Hour 2
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/file_info/download.php?file=OTM2005_02_19B.mp3

Pastor Bob DeWaay and Brian Flynn discuss the dangers of the latest church trend, "The Emergent Church" or "Emerging Church." It's the next step beyond "seeker-sensitive" and far worse if that's possible!
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http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/file_info/download.php?file=OTM2005_05_21B.mp3

Jan and Brian Flynn , author of "Running Against the Wind: A Former New Age Medium's Warning to the Church" discuss the "New Age" coming into the church. The practices and leaders of this movement are named.
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http://www.olivetreeviews.org/radio/mp3/file_info/download.php?file=OTM2005_06_11A.mp3

Cory
 
Your posts are always informative, and well thought out; I enjoy your views on Spiritual issues.
Thank you for these audio's. I look forward to hearing them, not only the debates, but the look at how this is thought to be part of the New Age Movement. I do not hear preachers mention it as much as they did upon it's arrival. I don't think they had any idea of how massive it would become.
 
That last one on the new age might not relate (I havn't listened to it yet) but I posted it because it looked interesting and is on a movement within the current age of the church. :)

Cory
 
DISCLAIMER: The views that follow are my own. Affiliates need not agree with my personal beliefs excepting the basic tenets of Christian faith set forth in the requirements for affiliation. I do not speak for others and I do not discourage others from posting dissenting opinions so long as they are respectful. My heart is that all who read my opinions will work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I respect the universal church as God's primary institution by which the Gospel is spread. I know that the universal church was ordained by God and the gates of hell will not overpower it.
 
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