just a thought about prayer

R

rhysj

New Member
Andy Rooney says:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin , but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution.

Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal? It's not like somebody is up there reading the entire Book of Acts.. They're just talking to a God they believe in and asking him to grant safety to the players on the field and the fans going home from the game.

But it's a Christian prayer, some will argue.

Yes, and this is Canada, a country founded on Christian principles and those who went before us.. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

If I went to a football game in Jerusalem , I would expect to hear a Jewish prayer...
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If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.

If I went to a ping pong match in China , I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.
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And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome .....

But what about the atheists? Is another argument.

What about them? Nobody is asking them to be baptized. We're not going to pass the collection plate. Just humor us for 30 seconds. If that's asking too much, bring a Walkman or a pair of ear plugs. Go to the bathroom. Visit the concession stand. Call your lawyer!

Unfortunately, one or two will make that call. One or two will tell thousands what they can and cannot do. I don't think a short prayer at a football game is going to shake the world's foundations.

Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights.. Our parents and grandparents taught us to pray before eating, to pray before we go to sleep. Our Bible tells us to pray without ceasing. Now a handful of people and their lawyers are telling us to cease praying.

God, help us. And if that last sentence offends you, well, just sue me.

The silent majority has been silent too long.. It's time we tell that one or two who scream loud enough to be heard that the vast majority doesn't care what they want. It is time that the majority Rules! It's time we tell them, You don't have to pray;you don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right; but by golly, you are no longer going to take our rights away. We are fighting back, and we WILL WIN!

God bless us one and all .. Especially those who denounceHim , God bless Canada , despite all her faults. She is still the greatest nation of all. God bless our service men and women who are fighting to protect our right to pray and worship God.

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Let's make 2010 the year the silent majority is heard and we put God back as the foundation of our families and institutions . And our military forces come home from all the wars.

Keep looking up.
 
I like the quote but not sure if that is from Andy Rooney, considering he considers himself agnostic and is also quoted as saying believing in God is like being in Santa. (Andy Rooney on CBS is the only one I know anyway)
 
rhysj said:
Christians are just sick and tired of turning the other cheek while our courts strip us of all our rights..
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Just a thought -- wasn't turning the other cheek while we're abused by the world commanded by Christ?

Edit: this thought is by no means a criticism of Rhys. It's a criticism of whoever wrote the original. The path of power and majority is not the path shown by the one who said that we should take up our crosses and follow him.
 
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However I don't think we should stand meekly by while our rights and Freedoms are trampled: the right to speak our minds, the right to choose our religion.

There is no Right to be Unoffended.
 
we are to turn the other cheek as long as it doesnt go against the teaching of Christ, if we turn the cheek all the time something is offensive to Christ then we arent standing up for what Christ taught us.
 
QUOTE]Just a thought -- wasn't turning the other cheek while we're abused by the world commanded by Christ?[/QUOTE]

Nope. Not the way many Christians teach it today, as if there are no exceptions. As if Jesus meant that in every situation you should back down and be passive. Jesus himself and his followers failed to measure up to such teachings. When the disciples were told to "turn the other cheek" and stop teaching in his name, they said, "We must obey God rather than man" and kept right on teaching, rebuking those authorities though it cost them their lives. Paul also blinded a sorcerer who was attempting to lead ppl away from the "way of God" and Jesus made a whip and went after those who took God lightly in the temple.

Act 13:8 But Elymas the sorcerer (for so is his name by interpretation) withstood them, seeking to turn away the deputy from the faith. Act 13:9 Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Act 13:10 And said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?
Act 13:11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand.
Act 13:12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord.

Aggressive action here by Paul, (God through Him) both verbal and physical/spiritual led to "belief". (And no, I don't think we have this power today..and should go around trying to blind ppl :) but the point remains.

So turning the other cheek is both situational, to some extent dispensational and not to be taken to the extreme. There is a time for it, to some extent and there is a time not to, to any extent. Remember John the Baptist whom Jesus loved: "Greatest born amongst women" did not turn the other cheek when rebuking Herod for His sins, the Pharisees and anyone else who was contrary to God. (Nor did Jesus by the way)

Preaching the gospel both in word/deed doesn't stop at the political, atheistic or non-Christian religious door.
 
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War

Andy Rooney says:
I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December. I don't agree with Darwin , but I didn't go out and hire a lawyer when my high school teacher taught his Theory of Evolution.

Revelation 3:14-16 (New International Version)
……..These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Andy Rooney says:
Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone says a 30-second prayer before a football game. So what's the big deal?

Matthew 10:32-33 (New International Version)
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

Andy Rooney says:
Yes, and this is Canada, a country founded on Christian principles and those who went before us.. According to our very own phone book, Christian churches outnumber all others better than 200-to-1. So what would you expect -- somebody chanting Hare Krishna?

See this video on www.thinkonyourown.com under “Faith” called “End of Christianity”.

Andy Rooney says:
If I went to a soccer game in Baghdad , I would expect to hear a Muslim prayer.
If I went to a ping pong match in China , I would expect to hear someone pray to Buddha.
And I wouldn't be offended. It wouldn't bother me one bit.
When in Rome .....

Deuteronomy 13:6-9 (New International Version)
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. 9 You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people.

Andy Rooney says:
You don't have to pray;you don't have to say the Pledge of Allegiance; you don't have to believe in God or attend services that honor Him. That is your right, and we will honor your right;

Deuteronomy 28:58-63 (New International Version)
58 If you do not carefully follow all the words of this law, which are written in this book, and do not revere this glorious and awesome name—the LORD your God- 59 the LORD will send fearful plagues on you and your descendants, harsh and prolonged disasters, and severe and lingering illnesses. 60 He will bring upon you all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will cling to you. 61 The LORD will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed. 62 You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the LORD your God. 63 Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess.

Andy Rooney says:
God bless us one and all .. Especially those who denounceHim ,

2 John
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We are all in a war and GOD is Holy we need to repent. The enemy is powerful and the stakes are high. Jesus is Lord.
 
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I suppose it is perfectly accurate to accuse me of trolling, since I posted a one-liner (followed by an edit) in response to something, rather than truly stating my position. So here goes:

The OP fails in my mind on a number of fronts.

1) As Alex points out, his position seems really wishy-washy. What he seems to be suggesting is not a revival of sorts but rather that tolerance be a two-way street. I'd agree whole-heartedly that it is hypocritical to remove the "majority" from the grounds of who should be tolerated -- assuming you're here for tolerance. The OP seems to be saying "Christianity should be respected because there are more of us in the U.S." and not "Christianity should be respected because it is Truth." And he's rallying people to agree with this.

2) Majority rules is not the way of Christ. I'm sorry, but if you look at your Bibles in the New Testament, Christians were the Minority. In Jerusalem, in Rome, in the world. But I'm pretty sure that the book of Acts doesn't say "and the disciples shut up for a long long time until there were more of them than the heathens." Instead, it says that they preached boldly, empowered by the Spirit of God.

3) Never believe someone who says that you should defend freedom of speech + religion (here, the freedom to pray at a football game) by taking those freedoms away from someone. Yes, it's a pain when an American Muslim, for instance, says "I don't like the Christian prayer at the beginning of a football game." But that is the essence of free speech. Now, I understand that so is the prayer at the game, but it's not the way of the Gospel to fight fire with fire -- we should not wield the weapons of the enemy.

4) That is not to say that we shouldn't be political people. Politics in America can be dark only because people have preached that Politics is something that Christians should avoid. With no light shining in the darkness, that darkness gets very dark indeed. But it means that we should wage this war (to borrow Alex's statement) so we do need to repent, and we do need to make sure we use weapons of God, not of the world.

5) I see this OP as saying we need to use the weapons of the world against it. I call Fail.



Last comment: I entirely agree with Danny in saying that Christ was not a doormat, tearing down facades and challenging those around him. He also said to bless those that curse you. Those two things can exist simultaneously, but pretty much only by God's power.

I entirely agree that Christians ought not to check their spines at the church door and have churches be the only sphere that they exist in. But I strongly caution that when they leave the doors of the church to wage spiritual war in our political forums, our schools, and our jobs and our families and on TV, that they fight according to the will and ways of Jesus Christ -- and not Andy Rooney. :)
 
landerx said:
Andy Rooney says:
God bless us one and all .. Especially those who denounceHim ,

2 John
10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

We are all in a war and GOD is Holy we need to repent. The enemy is powerful and the stakes are high. Jesus is Lord.
Click to expand...

Matthew 9:
11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

12On hearing this, Jesus said, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.'[a] For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

If you would have seen me years ago, you'd call me your enemy. I thought I was in control of my life. I didn't need God, and I didn't need Jesus. I was certainly doing some evil things at the time. At what point am I a waste? At what point would you decide to not share Jesus with me?

I think that's what Andy Rooney was getting at.... stop worrying about offending people, and just offending them! Who cares if they're offended. His rhetoric about hearing Muslim or Buddhist prayers was logic to get the unbelieving masses to quit whining about Christian prayer. And to be honest, I wouldn't be offended if my neighbor laid out a mat in my driveway and prayed to Mecca five times a day. He would be misguided, certainly, but there are ways to use those opportunities to witness to him because of it.
 
As Christians, we can take our example straight from Daniel when it comes to prayer. Do it regardless of popular culture.
 
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