John Piper and the Prosperity Gospel

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Ehh, for the wealth and prosperity, I don't agree with most of it. The health part, that I truly believe in. I've been sick-free for the last 3 months without headaches and such, and all it takes is faith and repentance. I have teachings on it if someone wants them. :)
 
Keero said:
Ehh, for the wealth and prosperity, I don't agree with most of it. The health part, that I truly believe in. I've been sick-free for the last 3 months without headaches and such, and all it takes is faith and repentance. I have teachings on it if someone wants them. :)
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so if my mother-in-law is dieing in the hospital its because she is harboring sin and is faithless? I would love to see some verses (NT please) on this. Thank you.

Edit: I don't want to discount the power of God to heal sickness and do miracles. Praise God for His infinite power!
 
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is there one in particular you had in mind? i was also hoping for some scripture references too. thanks.
 
That video was very moving, I love the passion of John Piper. I would love to sit under his preaching on Sundays.

2 Corinthians 4:7-18

But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves; we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed, therefore I spoke," we also believe, therefore also we speak; knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you. For all things are for your sakes, that the grace which is spreading to more and more people may cause the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God. Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day. For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
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Good find Ewoks. I think it was the Pharisees who said that people's illnesses were due to their sin or their parents sin.

I do not agree with the health,wealth, or whatever you want message as it treats God like a candy machine which dishes out what we "need" if we put in the correct change.

As Jesus walked along, he saw a man blind from birth.
His disciples asked him,
“Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?
Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned;
he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him.
We must work the works of the One who sent me while it is day;
night is coming when no one can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
When he had said this, he spat on the ground and made mud with the saliva
and spread the mud on the man’s eyes, saying to him,
“Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent).
The he went and washed and came back able to see.
The neighbors and those who had seen him before as a beggar began to ask,
“Is this not the man who used to sit and beg?
(John 9:1-41)
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Man is that ever hard to swallow..God would have a man be blind his entire life just for the one day that Jesus would pass by and show His works at some appointed time?!?!?. Talk about the Sovereignty of God. That doesn't fit with how most people paint God today.
 
I already checked that site before, and it's all open to interpretation.

His theology doesn’t work. It doesn’t line up with reality, which is that faithful believers get sick and it’s not always their fault.

And since the focus of his ministry is almost exclusively about healing and the “abundant life,” this should be an obvious clue that Satan is using him to distract people from what is important.
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Honestly, it works, and it works great. It's fairly simple: people sin > sin opens the door for demons to work in bad ways > repent (and not go back into that sin) and rely on God > no sickness. But hey, I am Pentecostal, so I know a lot of stuff I believe won't exactly fit with others. :p You give some of those a listen to see where I'm coming from.
 
hmm....by that reasoning everyone who's a true beliver should still be *physically* alive now, no? i guess everyone outright fails...and how does know what sin they're committing is causing what sickness? does lying to my boss give me the flu? you had better stop lusting lest you have a coronary! (alliteration intended). our body is in a permanent state of illness...cells stop regenerating as we age...it's as simple as that.

my mother made me attend a church with this philosophy for a few months...despite my vehement protests (until i got a car and went where i chose to go...) and it's rather ironic i suppose...the only person i saw getting wealthy in there was the preacher. so clearly the congregation was full of faithless and insanely sinful people...(although i suppose to the extent that greed was involved...that may very well be the case)

i find it very difficult to believe, personally, that my Father who provided us all such a clear and obvious way to salvation would throw such an obtuse way for us to manage to take care of something as simple as our own physical vessels and rely on what's "owed" me to receive earthly riches rather than relying on the gifts he blessed me with and working hard.
 
Then we should all live our lives with sickness and diseases, which Christ abolished on the cross? Where does it say in the Bible that illnesses are just happenstance and they occur randomly and Satan or God plays no part in it?
 
we live our lives suffering because of 2 Corinthians 4:7-18. God is shown to be supreme in and through our suffering.
 
hmm...coincidental that this popped up today?

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1847053,00.html?cnn=yes

...so now we can chalk up people contributing to the decline in the economy to this line of thought and foregoing any notion of financial planning and wisdom just so they could own something...nice



Psalm 37:21
The wicked borrows and does not pay back, but the righteous is gracious and gives.


Proverbs 13:11
Wealth obtained by fraud dwindles, but the one who gathers by labor increases it.
 
Like I said before, I'm not into the wealth/prosperity. I'm content in little and in much. Where I differ though is the health message. If the Bible says I don't need to have these sicknesses and Jesus took all of them, then I'll believe that. And my faith, at least for that, works.
 
Keero said:
Like I said before, I'm not into the wealth/prosperity. I'm content in little and in much. Where I differ though is the health message. If the Bible says I don't need to have these sicknesses and Jesus took all of them, then I'll believe that. And my faith, at least for that, works.
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Where does it say that?
 
This day and age we have to be VERY careful who we get insparation from, there are allot of false teachers out there, and ones that I think are even worse the preacher that teach a watered down version of the Bible.

Man, I just watched it again!! John Piper is amazing!! I love preachers that preach the word with truth, if you have never read any of Spurgeon's sermons I'd invite you to do so...
 
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Mordos said:
Where does it say that?
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Exodus 15:26
He said, "If you listen carefully to the voice of the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you."

Exodus 23:25
Worship the LORD your God, and his blessing will be on your food and water. I will take away sickness from among you.

Deuteronomy 7:15
The LORD will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt…

Deuteronomy 28:1-14, 61
If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God: You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country. The fruit of your womb will be blessed, and the crops of your land and the young of your livestock--the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks. Your basket and your kneading trough will be blessed. You will be blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out. The LORD will grant that the enemies who rise up against you will be defeated before you. They will come at you from one direction but flee from you in seven. The LORD will send a blessing on your barns and on everything you put your hand to. The LORD your God will bless you in the land he is giving you. The LORD will establish you as his holy people, as he promised you on oath, if you keep the commands of the LORD your God and walk in his ways. Then all the peoples on earth will see that you are called by the name of the LORD, and they will fear you. The LORD will grant you abundant prosperity--in the fruit of your womb, the young of your livestock and the crops of your ground--in the land he swore to your forefathers to give you. The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands. You will lend to many nations but will borrow from none. The LORD will make you the head, not the tail. If you pay attention to the commands of the LORD your God that I give you this day and carefully follow them, you will always be at the top, never at the bottom. Do not turn aside from any of the commands I give you today, to the right or to the left, following other gods and serving them.
The LORD will also bring on you every kind of sickness and disaster not recorded in this Book of the Law, until you are destroyed.

Deuteronomy 30:19-20
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

I Kings 8:56
Praise be to the LORD, who has given rest to his people Israel just as he promised. Not one word has failed of all the good promises he gave through his servant Moses.

Psalm 91:16
With long life will I satisfy him and show him my salvation.

Psalm 103:3
Praise the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits--who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases.

Psalm 107:20
He sent forth his word and healed them; he rescued them from the grave.

Psalm 118:17
I will not die but live, and will proclaim what the LORD has done.

Proverbs 4:20-23
My son, pay attention to what I say; listen closely to my words. Do not let them out of your sight, keep them within your heart; for they are life to those who find them and health to a man's whole body.

Isaiah 41:10
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

Isaiah 53:4-5
Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Jeremiah 1:12
The LORD said to me, "You have seen correctly, for I am watching to see that my word is fulfilled."

Jeremiah 30:17
But I will restore you to health and heal your wounds,' declares the LORD, `because you are called an outcast, Zion for whom no one cares.'

Joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, `I am strong!`

Nahum 1:9
Whatever they plot against the LORD he will bring to an end; trouble will not come a second time.

Matthew 8:2-3
A man with leprosy came and knelt before him and said, "Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean." Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately he was cured of his leprosy.

Matthew 8:17
This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases."

Matthew 18:18-19
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. "Again, I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.

Matthew 21:21
Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, `Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done.

Mark 11:23-24
"I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, `Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Mark 16:17-18
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well."

John 10:10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Romans 4:17-21
Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead--since he was about a hundred years old--and that Sarah's womb was also dead. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

II Corinthians 10:4-5
The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Galatians 3:13-14
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Ephesians 6:10-17
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

Philippians 2:13
...for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

Philippians 4:6-7
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

II Timothy 1:7
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.

Hebrews 10:23
Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.

Hebrews 10:35
So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded.

Hebrews 11:11
By faith Abraham, even though he was past age--and Sarah herself was barren--was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

James 5:14-15
Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.

I Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

I John 3:21-22
Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

III John 2
Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.

Revelations 12:11
They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.


AND another list I have on my PC, could be the same as above:

By Jesus' stripes I am healed. (1Peter 2:24)

It is God's will that I prosper and be in health, just as my soul prospers. (3John 2)

The Lord is my healer: (Ex. 15:26)

Jesus came that I may enjoy life and have it overflowing abundance. (John 10:10)

As I serve the Lord, sickness is taken from my midst. (Ex. 23:25)

Healing is one of God's benefits. (Ps. 103:3)

Jesus is the serpent of the pole lifted up in the New Covenant for my healing and deliverance. (John 3:14)

God sent His Word and healed me. (Ps. 107:20)

I pay attention to God's Word, for it is life to my body and health to my flesh. (Prov. 4:20-22)

God gives me good and perfect gifts. He has no sickness or disease to give me. (James 1:17)

As I submit to God and resist the devil, he must flee from me. Sickness and disease must flee from me. (James 4:7)

Jesus is able and willing to heal me. (Matt. 8:1-2)

Jesus can heal me through my believing, receiving, and speaking His Word or through the touch of another believer who is empowered by the Holy Ghost. (Mark 16:18)

Jesus paid for all sin and sickness at Calvary. (Matt. 8:17)

Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. (Heb. 13:8)

Because the Lord is my refuge and habitation, no evil nor plague shall come nigh my dwelling. (Ps. 91:9-11)

I am redeemed with the blood of Jesus Christ. ( 1 Peter 1:19)

I am justified by faith, not by works of the law. (Gal. 3:13)

Jesus redeemed me from the curse of the law. (Gal. 3:13)

The blessings of Abraham have come upon me. (Deu. 28:1-14)

Jesus legally redeemed me from the bondage of sickness and disease and every other work of the enemy. (Luke 13:10-17)

Jesus bore my griefs (sicknesses) and carried my sorrows (pains). (Is. 53:4)

Jesus was wounded, bruised, and beaten for my sins, sicknesses, and diseases. (Is.53:5)

I discern the Lord's body and receive all that He has provided for me, including healing for my physical body. (1Cor.11:23-30)

I am diligent to pray for my brothers and sisters in Christ that they may become all God has called them to be. (1Cor. 11:23-30)

To touch Jesus is to made whole. I touch Jesus today through prayer and faith. (Mark 5:25-34)

The resurrection power of Jesus Christ flows from my tongue as I speak words of life. (Prov. 18:21)

I have been given authority in the name of Jesus to speak to the mountains that I face. As I command the mountains of sickness, despair, hopelessness, and lack to be removed in Jesus' name, they must go and be replaced with the fullness of God's blessings. (Mark 11:22,23)

Because I meditate on the Word of God day and night, God's prosperity and success are overtaking me in all realms of life. (Josh.1:8)

The measure of faith God gave me is growing by leaps and bounds. (Rom. 12:3)

Because my faith is growing, nothing is impossible unto me. (Matt. 17:20)

Jesus is moved with compassion on my behalf. He wants me healed because of His great love for me. (Matt. 14:14)

Satan cannot dominate or oppress my life, because Jesus came to set me free. (1 John 3:8, Acts 10:38)

Just as God's grace was sufficient to cause Paul to overcome all of Satan's buffeting, God's grace causes me to overcome Satan's buffetings. Christ Jesus causes me to triumph in every area of life. (2 Cor. 12:9,10)

I will rise above anything and everything the devil throws at me. Nothing can keep me down, for I am more that a conqueror in Christ Jesus. (Rom. 8:35-39)

Today I will rise to new life from the depression and prostration in which circumstances have kept me. (Is. 60:1)

Jesus is the author of abundant life, while it is Satan who steals kills, and destroys. (John 10:10)

The days of my life are seventy years-and if by reason of strength eighty. (Ps.90:10)

Long life is mine because I obey and honor my parents in the Lord. (Eph. 6:1-3, Ex. 20:12)

My obedience to the Lord prolongs my life. (Prov. 10:27)

And some reasoning behind the healing scriptures: http://www.cnm-vra.com/healing/

Sorry for going off topic too. I'll drop it now. :)
 
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If you want we can take this off the boards, but in most of these there is one word "Context" most have been taken out of context of the scripture and if you want (Though it would take some time) I would be happy to take the Greek and provide an exegete of these for you.

Don't get me wrong, I think God is fully able to heal whom He chooses, but to say His faithful will not have sickness (I'm not afraid of saying it) opposite of the Bible teaching and really close to Heresy. Look to Paul, that man had tons of heath issues.

Most of the Word Faith movement leaders all died of some illness or disease;
John Osteen (Joel Osteen’s father) predicted that he would preach into his 90’s and he died when he was 77…
Faith healing preachers that died of some kind disease:
AA Alan – Liver failure
Katherine Kuhlman – Hearth condition
Jake Co – polo
Hobart Freeman – Heart Failure
Jamie Buckingham – Liver Cancer
Kenneth Hagen – Some physical ailment
 
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