John 15:16


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"You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you."

Something that I have been wondering about.. what exactly does this mean? Is he saying He hand picked who would go to heaven?

Or is it something like.. because He knows everything and because and he knows what the eventual outcome is (result of our free will).. he chose us that way?

Confusing :(

Err.. this might be the wrong section of the website to post this. Apologize.
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Haha time for another epic Calvin vs Arminius debate eh?

Only if you have bad hermeneutics. I am going off the top of my head here.

Jesus is speaking directly to his disciples here. He is saying he has hand picked them to change the world.

He is not talking to some random dude living in SoCal.

So, to speak to the verse it self and it's original intent. The text is helping to confirm the Disciples turned Apostles authority with Christ and God Himself as they establish the church.
Here is Calvin's commentary on the verse.
You have not chosen me. He declares still more clearly that it must not be ascribed to their own merit, but to his grace, that they have arrived at so great an honor; for when he says that he was not chosen by them, it is as if he had said, that whatever they have they did not obtain by their own skill or industry. Men commonly imagine some kind of concurrence to take place between the grace of God and the will of man; but that contrast, I chose you, I was not chosen by you, claims, exclusively, for Christ alone what is usually divided between Christ and man; as if he had said, that a man is not moved of his own accord to seek Christ, until he has been sought by him.

True, the subject now in hand is not the ordinary election of believers, by which they are adopted to be the children of God, but that special election, by which he set apart his disciples to the office of preaching the Gospel. But if it was by free gift, and not by their own merit, that they were chosen to the apostolic office, much more is it certain that the election, by which, from being the children of wrath and an accursed seed, we become the children of God, is of free grace. Besides, in this passage Christ magnifies his grace, by which they had been chosen to be Apostles, so as to join with it that former election by which they had been engrafted into the body of the Church; or rather, he includes in these words all the dignity and honor which he had conferred on them. Yet I acknowledge that Christ treats expressly of the apostleship; for his design is, to excite the disciples to execute their office diligently and faithfully. 85

He takes, as the ground of his exhortation, the undeserved favor which he had bestowed on them; for the greater our obligations to the Lord, the more earnest ought we to be in performing the duties which he demands from us; otherwise it will be impossible for us to avoid the charge of base ingratitude. Hence it appears that there is nothing which ought more powerfully to kindle in us the desire of a holy and religious life, than when we acknowledge that we owe every thing to God, and that we have nothing that is our own; that both the commencement of our salvation, and all the parts which follow from it, flow from his undeserved mercy. Besides, how true this statement of Christ is, may be clearly perceived from the fact, that Christ chose to be his apostles those who might have been thought to be the most unfit of all for the office; though in their person he intended to preserve an enduring monument of his grace. For, as Paul says, (1 Corinthians 2:16,) who among men shall be found fit for discharging the embassy by which God reconciles mankind to himself? Or rather, what mortal is able to represent the person of God? It is Christ alone who makes them fit by his election. Thus Paul ascribes his apostleship to grace, (Romans 1:5,) and again mentions that he had been separated from his mother’s womb,
Just because he is Calvin doesn't mean he is inerrant.

Two issue- One again the same, Jesus talking to His disciples. To extroplate to present day either Calvin's or ours, would get you a fail in any Theology class.

Second, I choose not to put Paul of Jesus. Jesus words take precedence in all cases for me. I understand Paul spoke with greater revelation than the apostles. However, I think Paul's words have to be seen through Christ's. I do not desire to put Paul's words over those of my Savior.

I understand others do. It is their choice. Just as Calvin does above. I choose not to and could find and quote dozens of other commentators who agree with me.

Sorry Calvin.
I didn't post that to go against you, only to be relevant to my first comment. Of course Calvin is not inerrant, he is a great theologian however and a good resource.

While I completely agree that Jesus is speaking to His Apostles in this verse, everything else He says in this context can be seen to apply to disciples today. ( Joy being complete, love one another, You are my friends IF) All of us current followers get to enjoy the benefits of prayer being answered and the rest of this discourse. To think that everything else applies to all followers but the "chosen" part only applies to those present for the conversation, might get a fail too.

Also I see that Calvin agrees with you that it was directed to the apostles and their position/authority, but then how much more to their position in salvation.
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Sounds like the engines are taking off for a full on thread...

To think that everything else applies to all followers but the "chosen" part only applies to those present for the conversation, might get a fail too..

This. All must be called. Everyone the Father calls come to Jesus. All who come are saved. Therein is the tension, we must come and we can only come unless the Father draws us.

With regards to questioning the authority of Paul's teaching, that appears as a thin line towards questioning the inerrancy of the Word. All Scripture is God breathed and useful for correction and teaching. We can't pick and choose and neither does it contradict itself.

John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."
Greetings my friends,

If I may be so bold as to bump this several day old thread to add my comments on this because I have been away for a few days...

A lot of people tend to over-think this scripture without looking at the context of the surrounding verses.

Jesus was speaking prophetically concerning His life and sacrifice and subsequent resurrection and completed work.

Look at John 15:15:

"Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. "

The moment He took our place on the cross, we were no longer servants, but friends, and sons. This is in line with Jesus' words at the Last Supper a few verses prior in John 15:13.

In verse 16, Jesus is saying that He chose us by loving us first even when we were yet sinners, He sacrificed Himself to save us. And He appointed us (as in kings and priests). So we are to go and bring forth fruit (prosper because of His resurrection life in us).

Yes it is for every believer... if it were not so, than neither would be the connecting verses. :)

Rather than a point of contention, this verse is actually a wonderful blessing and promise.
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A lot of people tend to over-think this scripture without looking at the context of the surrounding verses.


12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

I think he wants us to be faithful to him and to be close to him, to love him and our other brothers and sisters (I don't see anything about salvation, but I know there are other verses that do mention salvation).

Dang parables get me every time! :)
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