I've always been curious...

[ChickenSoup]

When the Rapture happens, Christians and the dead in Christ will go to heaven and the rest of the world will go through seven years of Tribulation, right? Well... what would happen if someone was about to become a Christian, and they were just kneeling down to pray for forgivenss when the Rapture happened before they had a chance? Would they go or get left behind? Or would God not even allow something like that to happen?

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

***This post reflects what Neirai thinks God would say about..., not necessarily what God says about...***

To clarify, c$, what you are saying is:
A person suddenly realizes that God is awesome, and that what their Christian friends have told them is really true. They kneel down and begin to pray the "sinner's prayer." It is 30 seconds long, but at 12 seconds in to the prayer, suddenly a trumpet sounds, and the Rapture happens. Is the person raptured, or are they screwed?

In answering this question, I'd like to do so platonically and bring up more questions and answer them. Feel free to critique, question, or label as heresy these answers.

Does salvation occur because we say the "sinner's prayer?"
Not really... if that were true, mute people couldn't ever be saved. Salvation occurs when we decide that we will follow God. The "sinner's prayer" et al is simply a way of declaring to God, to ourselves, and also to Satan that we are going to act on our realization that God is right and we are not. That realization and commitment happens in a split second, and before we even prayed, not somewhere in line 3 of the prayer. If someone were to come to saving faith in God (that's Churchish for "realizing that God is right and we are wrong and that we have to do it God's way but God will help us out,") and not have time to say the "sinner's prayer," I have to believe that God would take them with him anyhow.

If someone came to faith as a result of hearing the trumpet sound, would it be too late?
Honestly, I'll leave this one in God's hands. God is capable of decerning the grey areas better than I or any of you are. In fact, God may choose to honor one case and not the other -- what if one person didn't know what it meant before the day of, and had just heard about it, while another person was biding his time wanting to do his own thing in the world and "get saved when I'm older" and Christ's return caught him by surprise? These are totally different scenarios, and I'm not qualified to judge between them. Rest assured, God is, and he will choose the best judgement for all of us.

c$ says: "Or would God not even allow something like that to happen?"
Clarification: do you mean "Would God prevent such a split-second-before salvation?" or do you mean "Would God delay Rapture/Tribulation so as to accomidate this person?"
In both questions I believe that same source of answer suffices. The Bible says that God does not wish for anyone to be lost; rather it is his desire that everyone who possibly can be saved will. So I believe that in faith we can say with confidence that God would not prevent a split-second-before-salvation.
Now, would God delay the rapture just for one person? Well, he has a track record of screwing around with the laws of physics to help one person or, hey, sending his only Son knowing full well that it could only end in his Son's death so that people could be saved in the first place. I think, given God's track record, that it is not stupid and in fact possible that God might delay the Rapture for one person. That's cuz we worship a very awesome God.

God bless, hope this is at least 50%+1 non-heresy

 

[ChickenSoup]

Thanks for clearing that up for me

 

[Zeena]

When the Rapture happens, Christians and the dead in Christ will go to heaven and the rest of the world will go through seven years of Tribulation, right? Well... what would happen if someone was about to become a Christian, and they were just kneeling down to pray for forgivenss when the Rapture happened before they had a chance? Would they go or get left behind? Or would God not even allow something like that to happen?

Scripture is clear on this matter..

Revelation 9:20-21
And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 16:9
And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Revelation 16:11
And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Hebrews 12:17
For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

...

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

When the Rapture happens, Christians and the dead in Christ will go to heaven and the rest of the world will go through seven years of Tribulation, right? Well... what would happen if someone was about to become a Christian, and they were just kneeling down to pray for forgiveness when the Rapture happened before they had a chance? Would they go or get left behind? Or would God not even allow something like that to happen?

To my knowledge the Bible never says that Christians will be taken before the seven years. It is my opinion that since none of the early Christians were spared from persecution, we won't be either.

 

[tjguitarz]

I want to say that chapter 3 is the last chapter of Revelations that the Church is mentioned. It is believed by many that because of this, they were raptured. Never does it specifically say, "And then Christ came back and raptured the church, causing them to disappear like they did in the left behind series."

 

[notashamed]

When, where, & how the rapture takes place is a very much debated subject within the church. There is no clear concenus on these areas. So I just think of the verse that talks about the signs of the end times. "We will not not the day nor the hour, but we shall know the signs of the times." And as for the details of the rapture, I figure God will do it his way so why worry?

 

[Durruck]

Here is a very interesting (but long) reading about the rapture. Note that Wiki lists three distinct timeframes of the actual rapture - Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib. The Bible doesn't clearily give us a time frame, so this is another one of those things that God has put out there... and someday, we'll understand it all. But I doubt that we'll really figure it out until the rapture.

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

I avoided talking about the rapture on purpose The rapture is a big huge bastion of Christians-with-big-oversized-brains-fighting about something that is very vague. That's why, when I responded to c$, I completely ignored talking about the rapture timing et al.

1. The important thing about the rapture (or lack thereof) is that Jesus wins out in the end and he takes his children to heaven somehow.

2. God is cool and good and so he's not gonna leave one of his children behind due to bad timing.

3. Zeena is right, those who refuse to be counted as children of God will continue to do so, unlike in the Left Behind series.

4. Talking about the Rapture will lead to the pre- mid- and post- tribbers all coming out and conflicting with each other

Edit: for the record I'm null-trib: I know the trib exists and the rapture may or may not exist but I really don't care cuz I'd rather think about Christ's love for us.

 

[ChickenSoup]

To my knowledge the Bible never says that Christians will be taken before the seven years. It is my opinion that since none of the early Christians were spared from persecution, we won't be either.

I dunno, I've always thought that we were taken up because of the "trumpet sound" and we and the dead in Christ will meet Him in the clouds

 

[Avesther]

For a totally different view of the book of Revelations, I recommend Eternity Now by Peter Hiett. He walks through Revelations from the point of view of the Gospels were the Revealing of Jesus on Earth and that Revelation is the Revealing of the Eternal Jesus by God.

The revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave Him...

Revelations 1:1

 

[Brahc]

To my knowledge the Bible never says that Christians will be taken before the seven years. It is my opinion that since none of the early Christians were spared from persecution, we won't be either.

Must agree with phantom. I do not say this out of a spirit of debate but one of conviction and love... In what limited scripture searching that I have done, I see no evidence of rapture. God gave believers the book of Revelation as a blessing and teaching tool -- to help them through difficult times. It should be the same for us.

 

[lueff]

The Tribulation is God's pouring down of His wrath on the world.
Do you really think that He is going to pour down His wrath on us also?
Additionally, during the Tribulation time, the Holy Spirit will be withdrawn from this world, and we have the promise from God that He will never leave us.
Just little things you need to think about.

However, I am not going to elaborate because, like you said, this is an oft-debated and heated topic that has been rampaging for centuries. As much as I could say on the matter, I think it's best that it either be evaded for courtesy sake, or made into it's separate topic. I'd be more than glad to participate - but not here.

In closing, rest assured that God has control of the universe - even situations like the one you mentioned...


Romans 8:28-31

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?