Issue of Concern

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Icthus

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I think all need to know that the sponsership program was pulled.

However, it is not gone forever.

We, as officers, are discussing with Tek different alternatives. The last program was not sucessful according to some standards. This does not mean it is gone forever.

We are looking a reworking it under a more ministry focused process. By this I mean, not just a way for your buddy to get in and run MC or what not. And not just a way for a 10 year old to get in to Redeemed.

The sponsership program if it comes back will be a ministry of the guild, that is all of us, to those who have yet to make a decision to follow christ. Or those who are currently in flux with what they believe.

I do not think I have over stepped here. Let me know if I have Tek or other officers.
 
Icthus said:
I do not think I have over stepped here. Let me know if I have Tek or other officers.
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I would have preferred to post the information regarding the Sponsorship Program myself, but no, the information you posted is fair.

For the record, the Sponsorship Program was never intended to serve as a "back door" to increase the number of people at the MC runs. Why would we do that, when we could simply extend the offer to run MC to players outside the guild?

EDIT: Again, it is not for certain whether the Sponsorship Program has been suspended temporarily or indefinitely. There are compelling arguments on either side of the equation, and this is not a matter to be taken lightly.
 
Tek7 said:
I would have preferred to post the information regarding the Sponsorship Program myself, but no, the information you posted is fair.
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I felt compelled only to let people know we were in discussions.
 
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Some sources are reporting that Sanctification members believe that I suspended the Sponsorship Program to prevent Goblit from returning to Redeemed. Here's a copy and paste from a thread I posted in the WoW staff forum:
Tek7 said:
ToJMMOGSP. There. It takes so long to type out otherwise.

I didn't suspend the ToJMMOGSP to punish anyone or to "get back" at anyone.

I suspended the program for the following reasons:
  • Lack of use. As of two days ago, I had not received any e-mails from players applying for the ToJMMOGSP. To my knowledge, the program had not even been used since May 17, when I posted a public, page-long document detailing the program.
  • Timing. There's a number of stressful situations to resolve in Redeemed right now. While the ToJMMOGSP could, in theory, be a great ministry tool, things need to settle down before it could be very effective.
  • Lessons learned. People assume that Redeemed members are Christians. This places undue stress on Sponsored (non-Christian) members and may lead to conflicts borne out of misunderstandings and unrealistic expectations. Suspending the program and requiring all Sponsored members to have a "Sponsored by" tag on their guild note goes a long way to alleviate any confusion.
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I hope this puts any rumors that I suspended the Sponsorship Program out of a heart of anger or retribution to rest.
 
Based on feedback from staff, Dukatt's personal testimony, and CGamer's opinion, I have made the following decision:
Tek7 said:
The option for Tribe of Judah guilds to create and use a Sponsorship Program once again rests with the leader of each respective guild, as of Tuesday, September 19. That means that the decision to re-open the Sponsorship Program for Redeemed now rests with CGamer.
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Hmm...I can't say joining with a sign next to my name saying "sponsered" next to my name would be something I would want. What about people's privacy?
 
I think it would be a good idea (yeah, I know I am not a part of ToJ or Redeemed) but it would give a clear representation of who is doing what. It is unfair to hold a non-Christian to Christian standards or expect a non-Christian to understand various tenets of the Christian faith. A specific tag would help all to better form relationships with other guild members without as great of a possibility of deceit or miscommunication.

Sorry if this is horribly off topic, just wanted to voice my opinion on it.

Gen
 
Why be paranoid about deceit? If someone's joining the guild to cause trouble, they'll just lie on the ToJ application! There's absolutely no way to keep this from happening, so secondary measures to label each non-Christian for "safety" is nonsensical.

That said, I urge you to keep the sponsership program open even if it IS unutilized for months on end. I think it's very important to allow ANYBODY the chance to chat in guild chat and interact with us more than just on a weekly raid. That it's not often used does mean that it's not going to be a primary factor in Redeemed, but it IS always going to be available when somebody wants to bring their unsaved relative or friend to the guild.

I don't think labeling the sponsered members is at all necessary, but realistically, putting a note, "sponsered by ____" in their guild note is extremely minor. Yeah, I'd probably balk at the "labeling" too, but I honestly doubt whether that would factor into my decision to become sponsored and join Redeemed. Since the notes are only edited by staff (after some serious vandalism) I know I haven't looked at them in months.
 
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Cammandus said:
well we arent labeling non believers that join the guild becasue non believers arent joining the guild.
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You go ahead and beleive that fairytale. I know of people who have lied on their application. I know of people who were invited even before the sponsership program was around. I know of 6 "sponsered" members that have joined in the last couple months. I can think of many whose applications haven't gone through or were lost.
 
Still concerned

Who says I didn't report people who told me they lied? And why would people feel they need to lie instead of just be sponsored? I know people don't want to be labeled or treated any differently by others. Sharing your beleifs with others is a personal choice. They just want to play a game with their friends. I think there has to be a way to do that. Having a guild with a Christian focus, with strong leaders both Christian and not that support each other is my ideal. Maybe letting people know who the leaders are that are not strong in their faith would be acceptable....but most wouldn't join if they thought they would be singled out with a "tag".



ok..if you know of people who have lied on their app and you have not reported it then you have enabled that person's deciet and are an accomplice. Both the person who lied and the accomplice should be removed at that point.
It doesn't apply to you goblit since you removed yourself. Any others who are complicit in such deception need to be removed. It's that simple. The way to keep it form happening more often is to not tolerate it(is that truly going to happen?)
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