Is the church the truth?

[Guest]

Church               vs               Truth

Jesus                                   Yeshua
Carpentar                             Stone Carver
Virgin Mary                           Jesus had older siblings
Jesus walked on water           Walking water = dialect
etc.                                     etc.

I was just wondering why the one organization in the world dedicated to truth and honesty, would lie so much to their people, like Inquisitions, Molestations, THE LIST GOES ON, of course this is all part of my philosophy of Taosim, but this is an organization dedicated to truth, but they lie more than anyone else I know, that is why I feel that following my own heart and following the truth, is better than what one person's, who's perception of the world is so different from mine, philopsophy...this bugs me dearly, the church should just quit interfering with my connection with god with lies, rules, acquisitions, and quotes, I just want to listen to the truth, and follow my heart! and Catholicism and Christianity both have lied and held me back from the glory of god!!!

 

[timor]

Quote[/b] ]Church vs Truth

Jesus Jeshua
Carpentar Stone Carver
Virgin Mary Jesus had older siblings
Jesus walked on water Walking water = dialect
etc. etc.

I was just wondering why the one organization in the world dedicated to truth and honesty, would lie so much to their people, like Inquisitions, Molestations, THE LIST GOES ON, of course this is all part of my philosophy of Taosim, but this is an organization dedicated to truth, but they lie more than anyone else I know, that is why I feel that following my own heart and following the truth, is better than what one person's, who's perception of the world is so different from mine, philopsophy...this bugs me dearly, the church should just quit interfering with my connection with god with lies, rules, acquisitions, and quotes, I just want to listen to the truth, and follow my heart! and Catholicism and Christianity both have lied and held me back from the glory of god!!!

You are sadly misinformed. First of all, I would like you to cite your sources. These are baseless statements. For all I know, you just made them up.

To actually look at them, we see that Jesus = Yeshua. This is Hebrew. Do you honestly expect the spelling to stay consistent through translation? =\
Stone carver? Please elaborate.
Older siblings? Please elaborate, for we know that Jesus had YOUNGER siblings, but none older.
Walking (on) Water? Please elaborate. I do not see how "dialect" could skew the meaning of the apostles' account.

I will do the research after YOU do.

 

[mpty]

I agree with timor, what do you mean by... dialect, stone carver, and such? Where's the evidence? I've never, ever, ever heard that Jesus was a stone carver, or had older siblings, among the pretty strange (to me) "so called facts" that I've heard about Jesus.
Also, the only way you're going to get to view God's glory is by going to heaven, through Jesus' blood... Following yourself or whatever will only lead you in circles if you're trying to get to heaven...there's only one way...

 

[Kidan]

hmm.. i can do this with Taoism.

uhm...
Tao = The Way, they're actually talking about the road thing on top of the Great Wall

te Ching = The power, will we be using wind, coal, nucelar or hydroelectric?  Because of what Platonius says about his Tao "that fountain ever on"  We should be using hydroelectric

I could go on, mocking your religion, but I'd much rather come to the table with at least a BASIC understanding of the forms and principles, and the ABILITY to check and understand my facts.

I know Taoism is:

Quote[/b] ]
Taoism has provided an alternative to the Confucian tradition in China. The two traditions have coexisted in the country, region and generally within the same individual.

Tao is the first-cause of the universe. It is a force that flows through all life.

Each believer's goal is to become one with the Tao.

Time is cyclical, not linear as in Western thinking.

Yin (dark side) is the breath that formed the earth.  Yang (light side) is the breath that formed the heavens. They symbolize pairs of opposites which are seen throughout the universe, such as good and evil, light and dark, male and female. Intervention by human civilization upsets the balances of Yin and Yang.

Taoists generally have an interest in promoting health and vitality.

Five main organs and orifices of the body correspond to the five parts of the sky: water, fire, wood, metal and earth.

Each person must nurture the Ch'i (air, breath) that has been given to them.

The Three Jewels to be sought are compassion, moderation and humility.

One should plan in advance and consider carefully each action before making it.

A Taoists is kind to other individuals, largely because such an action tends to be reciprocated.

Taoists believe that "people are compassionate by nature...left to their own devices [they] will show this compassion without expecting a reward."

Yet I also know that Lao Tzu is suspected to not even exist.

Yet I also know that a prime belief of the Taoist (see the last in my list) is inatly incorrect.  People are inantly selfish, and want to do that which feels good to them, they want to flaunt authorities, they care not for anything but themselves (look at any baby, they adopt the morals and compassions that we teach them to have)

Yet I also know that there is a belief that Lao Tzu stayed in his mothers womb for 62 years and was born an old wise man

Rather than spout obtuse grossly ncorrect facts. do a bit of research first please.
****************
I hate when I misspell BBTags..

 

[Xel]

World vs Truth
Pigs dont fly Pigs fly
Donkeys dont sing Donkeys sing
Monkeys fling poo Monkeys fling children
Hewlett Packard makes Hewlett Packard makes
crappy gaming comps great gaming comps


Anybody can put random crap up and say its true, evidence helps.

 

[Guest]

Firstly I'm not Taosit, but Taoism isn't really a religion either, it's just a different way to view things, a way in which I view similar!

I don't have my sources with me, because my Theology teacher gave them to me at school. The accounts were from records of Rome back when a man named Yeshua was born and died, funny even another thing...

Yeshua wasn't born on christmas and wasn't crucified in the Spring, he was actually born around April and was crucified around September and if AC started when Christ was born, then it wouldn't be 2003, found a link..."http://www.stargazers.com/jesus.html" "http://biblequiz.freeservers.com/PgsTmb/Chs/ch23.html"

And if you look at any latin bible with pictures you wills e Yeshua as a stone carver, not a carpentar, my teacher showed us that!

AND THIS ISN'T RANDOM OR FALSE!!!...clearly the church has brained washed you all!!!

 

[Kidan]

oh, I see, so you did not check the facts out yourself, you just blindly believed what you were told.


Now, on Christmas, this is true Jesus was born in the spring, yet we're not sure of the exact date, so does it matter that we celebrate His birth when we want?
Yet He was killed in the spring as well. He died during Passover, a very set Jewish festival. as for the birth, it's been known for years, that when they implemented the gregorian calendar they were off by about 4 years or so from the actual date of Christ's birth. but again, who cares. Neither of these effect the purpose and truthfullness of Christianity'

Now onto the stone carver thing. While it could be true, that a misinterpretation of scriptures exchanged the word stonecarver for carpenter. What really would be the difference? they are both blue color manual labor jobs. It's not like you're saying 'well he was realy born a nobleman, and pretended to be a peasant'

Yet again, it could have been a mistake on those making those latin Bibles as well.

YEt how are we supposed to study these things if you don't give us references.

 

[Guest]

The refrences are the original LATIN BIBLES!!! I alread said that, except some of the stuff are reports from archeological studies done about Jesus, I've seen a show on TV stating that James was an older brother of Jesus, sorry I can't remeber the show, it was my teacher who handed us forms which were all sited about Yeshua, BUT I CAN'T FIND THEM!!! I'm not as bible-fanatic as most of you people are. Second of all are you saying the church never lies? I can understand lying then admiting to lies, that's what the church expects us to do. But the Church won't admit they try to find all these sneaky ways out, like "the translation", "misinterpretation" and a bunch of BS. Another thing about dialect is that most of the miracles in the bible are metaphors for what he really did, like Walking on Water back then meant walking alongside or walking with. I'm I attempting to attack and destroy the church? absolutely not, I just would a concere response to these lies!

And claiming I have made blind statements may be true, because I didn't cite my claims (I apologize), but following a book which was written from people who thought the world was flat, you get colds from demons inside of you, and if you bathe to much you were washing away goodness, that my freind is BLIND FAITH!

Anyways I've finally decided to quit posting on these forums because you all know much more about the Bible and the Church (probably why you created this site

), and you all seem like you are faithful Christians, and nothing I say will make me change your mind about the church. Anyways I hate arguing on foums, so I have agreed to disagree, so farewell, anyways Star Wars Galaxies is going to be at my doorstep in two days, again thanks I've learned alot!!!

 

[CCGR]

Glad you see us as true and not as hypocrites. Sorry you'll be leaving the forum. Enjoy Star Wars Galaxies!

 

[Kidan]

the original LATIN Bibles. but the Bible wasn't originally written in Latin. Aramic, Greek, Hebrew these are the languages of most books of the Bible

Jesus did hve a brother named James, but it was a younger brother.

So with the 'dialect' thing you are saying that all the miracles performed are metaphors? such as the feeding of thousands, and the numerous healings, turning water into wine, this are all metaphors? for what? What metaphor can we get from 'Jesus healed a leper.'

Quote[/b] ]but following a book which was written from people who thought the world was flat, you get colds from demons inside of you, and if you bathe to much you were washing away goodness, that my freind is BLIND FAITH

uhm.. sorry, I can't find a single BIBLICAL reference to support these. These are all nonsense created by the Catholic church during the Middle Ages.


There is no need to go. Just because you will not change our minds does not mean you can't stay here and post. It's a good place to learn more if you are interested in learning about the Bible, also a good place to learn opposing view points from those who we spend our time discussing things with in here.

But anyways, do enjoy Star Wars Galaxies.

 

[timor]

Yes, please stay, and as CCGR said, thank you for seeing us as true =D

As Kidan said, the ORIGINAL Bible was not in Latin, but in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. Truly, the ORIGINAL Bible was in Hebrew, followed by the Greek Septuagint, and then the new testament which was mainly composed of Greek.

Latin was then used, as it was the official language of the Roman Empire, and was used very much in the Roman Catholic church until I believe the Vatican II changed things.

However, you're talking about pictures...what relevancy would these pictures have to the Latin text? How do you know these pictures are depicting what the text says? And as Kidan said, both are similar jobs. Please find the Latin verses and I'd be glad to translate them for us. =D

 

[XOMINOUS ANGELX]

I like how you guys get all ticked about little minor details instead of the basic arguement and then LIONIZE yourself and DEMONIZE other peoples beleafs.... not just you guys though christianity as a whole as far as catholism..... thou shalt not make any false graven images need I say more?...... and cmon why am I going to go to hell if I eat meat on tuesday... instead of fish which is a dead animal itself which should be considered meat and not genericzed into a diffrent name of poltry meat it meat dang it oh and please feel free to get offended and ban me from this site it will only prove my point that your being hypicritcal by judging me for saying a WORD.. that means CURSE.  of course someone is going to say NO ITS BECAUSE YOUR ACTING CHILDISH... that excuse is lame so dont waste your breath

 

[timor]

Who says you can't eat meat on tuesday? I just had a nice, big, juicy, delicious cheeseburger.
No, if you're going to go to Hell, its because of your sin and seperation for Christ.
The main argument was that the church lies, and the examples of these lies were weak and false...we did not avoid the main argument, but rather went right to it.
Please avoid further baseless rants.

 

[Kidan]

I am not Catholic, I am a Salvationist.  There is a world of difference.

We're not judging you for saying a word, if you are banned, you would have been punished for disobeying the rules that you AGREED to obey by signing up for an account and posting in these forums.


Now onto the nonsense of your post.  How did I lionize myself or my beliefs?  I've consistently argued them yes, but lionize?  I do not treat my beliefs as a celebrity.  They are merely my beliefs.  Nor have I ever demonized anyone else's beliefs. I used sarcasm and irony to display the irrelevancies of your post, by describing Taoism in a similar vein of idiocies as you spouted about Christainity, I then went on and expressed my understanding of Taoism, and explained that since I do have a basic understanding of Taoism, and a knowledge of some of it's DOCUMENTED foibles, that I could have a discussion of comparission between Christianity and Taoism without making a fool of myself by saying something utterly inane and pointless.

 

[Guest]

About what the Catholic chruch made up during the Middle Age. That is probably why my Catholic theology teacher taught me this, as I said I'm just "blindly" repeating what my theology techer said about Church History when I make claims, but not theories, anyways thanks for clearing that up.

About Taoism, I'm not Taoist and know about as much about that as I do Christiantiy, I just like how every thing the Tao teaches are lessons and ideas, not rules and laws, that's all I was saying!

About me getting banned, I posted again because to prove I didn't get banned, I've decided myself to leave, because I have to to much claiming and blaiming and not enough prooving and evidance. Clearly you all are faithful and know alot about the bible! I don't and I mad the mistake of arguing what I have heard and then manipulating that into my own beleifs (using my own mind), but isn't going to do me any good, when debating on a forum with people who know the Bible from back and front and study Philopsophy. So I've decided that If I should argue with Timor, Kidan, CCGR, etc. that I'm going to haev alot more evidance, to stay up with the enormous amount of evidance which they have! Otherwords you guys are much more experienced forumers than I, and I felt out of place making alot of statements, without proof, but I do feel that when I posted my philosophy that it was fine, becasue my philosophy was out of my own mind, and I philosophy can't be proved...so again sorry for all th claims, alot of them are arguments from Catholicism and not Christian. So, now I will leave in peace (hopefully) and I will remember this site, from now on when I try to argue on posts, that there may be more experienced and evidence driven people, so don't claim to much, anyways I've learned alot in 4 days, so thanks, farewell!

I feel repented now!

and my concious is now clear!

 

[timor]

Please don't leave! There is so much we can still discuss! But if you do decide to go, thanks for the time you spent with us, and please think of us occasionally. And the next time you see your family Bible lying around, think twice before passing it by...truth and the key to salvation lie within!

 

[Kidan]

bryon

IF you don't debate, and have a reason to learn these things, you won't. You say you've learned a lot in these past 4 days. why not stay longer and see how much you learn then? If nothing else, it will help prepare you for college and the debates and papers you will have there.

Don't just forgo this site because some of us are more experienced at debate. We all have to take time to learn and grow. I can admit, there are times when I have to do a little study before I post a reply . Posting in forums like this help you organize your thoughts, and gives you time to actually consider the reasons behind your beliefs (you always consider things that you are arguing for or against). And the more we consider our beliefs, the more that we think them through, and discover exactly why we believe these things and what exactly it is that we are saying that we believe, the better off we are.

 

[Guest]

Interesting how I end up back here again and again

, but I do like to debate and argue about things, just about christianity my knowledge is so thin compared to all of yours vast knowledge on christianity, anyways I'm actually amazed at the way you guys have responded to my leaving, so I think I might check this site out more often, it was gaming that brought me here anyways, the Star Wars Galaxies Review (just wondering...the game isn't out yet how'd you review it?), but anyhow I think I'll stop by, but I think I've made a clear statement about my philosophys and beleifs, and I think that I can finally post again with a fresh slate, so I might just do that, but not in the topic of religion, anyways thanks for the positive feedback, I regret ever claiming to leave now (probably claimed that a few times, becasue I felt that all the responses I was getting were negative, but I was wrong, anyways most of my posts were negative, so no harm done), and hope to check this site out for gaming purposes sense your reviews are all probably legitmate and truthful, not at all interfered by money or corporations, which makes me glad there are still gaming sites which are honest

My beleif, is that I always beleive in being honest, and being myself, so I usually have a grudge towards establishments which want to put restrictions and rules on me, to which I have to pray or go to church, I prefer meditation with some incense and gregorian chant, which is just like deepening experiences with god, but rather with myself, see I wish there could be a relgion which just said "Do whatever it takes to become a happy, honest, and loving person, while also allowing other to accomplish this too!" instead of "Don't do these 10 things, pray everyday, go to church, etc." becasue I feel that instead of direction from others, we need to learn things for oursleves, that's what out physcology is designed for (I got stung by a bee a swarm of bees when I was 4, and ever since I've been scared to death of bees!) so I just do as I command, and usually that's he right thing, as I said, I do alot of community service out of my own heart, I always give money to the poor, on streets at church, and I really do care for people, but I accomplished that all by myslef without rules and guidelines!

Again I regret ever saying I'm leaving, this forum is much more freindly than I first thought!

 

[CCGR]

sweet!  well hope you feel welcome here.  Glad you like the atmosphere.

Matrinix was a beta tester for the game and in all fairness I put preview in the title of it instead of review since it looked at the beta after the NDA was released.

Regarding Christianity people think it's a religion of don'ts.  Don't kill, don't commit adultry, don't eat pork etc.

I look at this the other way around.  God set rules because he loves us and many of these rules are for our own good.  Would you feel loved if your parents let you play on a busy road?  The killing part I hope you can see why that's not so good of an idea.  The adultry...well that's sex outside of marriage. You have pregnancies and STD's to worry about nowadays.  The pork rule was an Old Testament law because pigs were seen as dirty....they didn't sweat and their meat actually has a lot of toxins if not cooked enough.  People back in that day got sick and even died from it.  So that law of pork being unclean has good reason behind it.  It's not an issue these days though.

So just because I don't like playing certain games doesn't mean that everyone here has the same convictions. We're all wired differently and some people have higher tolerances for things.

I hope you can somewhat see where I'm going with this. Our beliefs are that we accept Jesus as our savior and he'll open our eyes and change us from there. I don't do a lot of the same thiings I did before I was a Christian. But we don't go to hell for missing church. OR breaking a commandment.

 

[Mr_Eon]

And the other great thing about this site is that they don't castigate you for simply having different beliefs. Only a handful of times have I been told to leave this site for being non-Christian, and each time the general membership and moderators have waded in with a big stick in my defence. I came here full of anger and a desire to lay waste too, bro. I ended up staying here for what's turned into over a year, I think. Whilst my core beliefs have remained unchanged, and I don't think I've converted anyone else either, I've been given a lot to think about, and hopefully I've contributed my share too.

Whatever else you say about these guys, even the ones who insist on trying to "save my soul" come across as being genuinely concerned, rather than trying to score brownie points for the afterlife.


<round of applause for the guys, and for Byron too - it takes a better class of person to climb down like that>


Eon