Is it really that simple?

Sidonia

Sidonia

Member
I've been thinking about this question for some time now and thought that I would post to get everyone's viewpoint, and as always, I ask God to correct me when I am wrong.

Salvation? The Bible says that salvation is not determined by your good works but by professing that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior. He died on the cross to wash away our sins. We're human so we're bound to sin, however we ask for forgiveness, learn from our actions, and not commit those same sins. Considering that, some people, Christians and non-Christians may ask, "Why do what's good then? I can continue committing sins perhaps the same sin, not learn from my actions and know that it will be forgiven when I ask for forgiveness because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior." It's like some can choose to live a life of sin up until the last minute and it all be washed away with a prayer of forgiveness. Again, why should some choose to live by the way of the Lord when it all seems so easy to ask forgiveness and live eternal life?

I apologize if it seems that I'm being judgmental, but I'm just seeking understanding.

Sidonia
 
It's a very valid question. You're certainly not the first person to pose these.
It's like some can choose to live a life of sin up until the last minute and it all be washed away with a prayer of forgiveness.
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Yes, they can. However, none of us are promised the next breath, and I'd hate to live a reckless life and forget to sincerely ask forgiveness. Talk about one moment ruining the rest of eternity. The Bible does support the "last minute redemption" - read about the thief on the cross next to Jesus.

Why do what's good then? I can continue committing sins perhaps the same sin, not learn from my actions and know that it will be forgiven when I ask for forgiveness because I believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior.
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Only God knows how those people will be handled, but I suspect we can get a glimpse into what will happen from Matthew 7:
21 Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?' 23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.'
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Even the devil and his minions will answer to Jesus. In the final judgment, they will call Him Lord. But they still end up in the lake of fire. Those that mock salvation by intentionally wasting it have a lot of chances to harden their hearts until it's too late.
 
Based on the passage below, I think the reason we want to strive not to sin is not because our salvation is in any way dependent on it, but because once we have been saved we begin to develop the God-like qualities of love toward God and our fellow man so we don't want to grieve or hurt either anymore with the consequences we have learned all sin ultimately brings.

Those that argue the case for continuing to sin and just making things right later on are technically correct as far as salvation goes, but will probably regret their position when they finally learn the real and harmful effects of sin and realize that true fellowship with God even in just the mortal lifetime offers far more joy and well-being than anything classified as sin ever could.

Ephesian 4:7-17

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.

No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgement: because as he is, so are we in this world.
 
Just to re-iterate both answers: Believe it or not, your question is so not new that the scriptures themselves litterally deal with that question directly.

I can not judge somebodies salvation but by their fruit (which is judgable), I have a good inclinitation of what is going on.

As for why do good. James talks about this in his letter that good works is evidence of faith. That is, if you say you are a christian and have faith in God, then the evidence of it will be good works. Why do good works, because you have faith, you are showing the world that as a Christian with Christ as the center of your life, you choose to be christ like. Is it Christ like to simply steal with the knowledge that you just have to ask for forgiveness? No, it is not even scriptural. Christ did not go around stealling and then asking the Father for forgiveness, Christ simply did not sin.

As sinning happening, it does. Paul in his letter to the Romans discusses this. To paraphrase, he says his right hand does what he knows it ought not. I take the to mean (in context of his writtings) that he knows he does stuff that is sinful totally unawares. We have all done this. For me, I don't steal from work, I don't even take pens from work home. But sometimes, after a late night with a client, I'll put a pen in my pocket and go home. Totally unawares I have sinned. And when I become aware of it when I take my shirt of, I can say "God forgive me I sinned, I didn't set out to do, but I did anyway. I am so unworthy but by your grace I am forgiven." That is living under the law of righteousness. My heart, my will is to be Christlike but body does stuff that I just can't figure out.
 
Because of God's grace that we are all loved the same way. That's why someone on their deathbed can receive Christ and be saved and I'm thankful that they can be.

The trick is of course that you can't think, during your whole life, that I'll just repent on my deathbed. That's mocking God more or less. But if the sincerity is there, if you have been shown the error of your ways at that point in time then his mercy extends to forgive ignorance and stupidity too.

You can't have the attitude "I'll just repent about this later in life".

There's also the small matter of living in eternity after. We don't earn salvation, but we are put on Earth by God to do something specific, and it ain't to party till you drop. What will your home be like in Heaven if you did nothing for God? How many crowns will you be able to cast when he's around?

There's no "Well done my good and faithful friend" speech, and you have to account for all the sins you've committed.

Continually sinning and KNOWING that you are sinning hardens your heart. It's a state of mocking God and his commands.

Jesus said "Why do you call me Lord, Lord and don't do what I say?".

How can you profess to love God if you don't obey him? Jesus said to love him is to obey him and that he looks within your heart.

The way I see it, the "Deathbed Scenario" is the last ditch lifeline for people. If they can be reached and saved then yay! but it's not ideal and it'll be even harder for people who knowingly sinned just to "repent" then.
 
It is that simple.
God made salvation a simple thing. With a childlike faith in Jesus Christ... in Him dying for our sins, coming to life again, and forgiving our transgressions we have eternal life in Heaven.

Technically you can go on sinning, or whatever...
but Once you have placed your trust in Jesus Christ to save you, fruit of the spirit tends to show...
a desire to shed your skin and move forward, striving to be more like Christ.

Failing again and again, but never giving up because you love Jesus Christ, and it is your deepest desire to serve him with all your heart.
 
Paul addresses that very question in Romans 6:1-4

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
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Consider also, Matthew 5:14-16
"You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven."
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We are set apart by salvation, but how can we share that with people around us? We are called to, as expressed in the mission statement of my church, "share the love of Jesus with a hurting world". A pope said it something like this "tell people about Jesus, and sometimes use words". And check out that last verse "that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven" - we act not for our own glory, but for God's glory.
 
Paul is saying we shouldn't sin any longer, but he's not saying it isn't possible. As our merciful Savior has given us such life, we should live a life pleasing to Him.
 
Tek7 said:
"Preach the Gospel at all times and when necessary use words." -St. Francis of Assissi
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That's it. However, I completely disagree with that St. Francis' idea. I believe for it to be biblically correct, we must always use words when we preach the gospel. The gospel as defined by scripture is summed up to be, "Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins." I don't think it's possible to "live the gospel".

With that said, when we are saved, our works will be an evidence of our faith. The good works are not something that we should do. Rather, they are something that we will do.

Just because we are saved, it doesn't mean that we will stop sinning. We are imperfect and are sinners. In Romans, Paul said that he still struggled with sin and claimed to be the chief of sinners.

The difference is that when we are saved, we will be convicted and will repent of sin.

This next comment is just my idea and it may or may not be scriptural. I have a theory that our refusal to repent creates a wedge between us and God. As that wall builds up, my heart becomes hard. Eventually, I suspect that it's possible to reach a point of totally rejecting God. This may or may not be accurate and will require more thought and study on my part.
 
I accept that, though saved, there is still sin in my life. I think what Paul is warning us, in Romans 6, against complacency towards sin. The attitude that "I can go out and sin and its ok because God will forgive me" is not indicative of a truly repentant heart.

In sharing the Gospel, words give detail, but if we speak Jesus love, and act totally, opposite then our words are useless. If we say "love one another", but we fail to show that love, then what we say will be ignored. Yes, "if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

But,

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." James 2: 14-18
 
Alias said:
I accept that, though saved, there is still sin in my life. I think what Paul is warning us, in Romans 6, against complacency towards sin. The attitude that "I can go out and sin and its ok because God will forgive me" is not indicative of a truly repentant heart.

In sharing the Gospel, words give detail, but if we speak Jesus love, and act totally, opposite then our words are useless. If we say "love one another", but we fail to show that love, then what we say will be ignored. Yes, "if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9)

But,

"What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." James 2: 14-18
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Yes, but be careful to not confuse law and works with gospel. Gospel is Christ crucified for the forgiveness of sins. The law is summed up as love one another. Works are then an evidence of our faith.
Also, read the rest of Romans 10. That chapter is clear that the Gospel must be preached.
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. Romans 10:17

We should not present "love one another" as the Gospel (although there are a lot of churches that do). Jesus said that all of the law can be summed up in the commands to love God and to love each other. That is law. We definitely should show love to one another, but that will be a result of our salvation. It's not something we do, it's something that God does in us. However, we should preach the Law AND the Gospel.

Way of the Master presents the Law & Gospel like this....

Have you ever told a lie? (yes)
Have you ever stolen anything? (yes)
Have you ever looked on someone with lust? (yes)
Have you ever hated someone? (yes)

The bible says that looking on someone with lust in your heart is the same as commiting adultery. It also says that hating someone is the same as commiting murder. God tells us that breaking just one of his commandments is enough to keep us out of Heaven. How many have we broken?

I'm a sinner, you're a sinner. According to God's law, we deserve eternal death.

But, here's the good news! Christ died for our sins! He took the punishment that we deserve in our place. All you have to do is to believe that He is the Son of God and that He died for our sins. Call out to him. Repent and you will be saved.


......but that's sort of off topic. :)

The simple fact is that when we are saved, we are still sinners. We are saints, but we are also sinners. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8" In context, that is being written to believers, not unbelievers. That is not an excuse to sin, but it points out that we do still sin. The rest of it, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:9-10"

When we sin, confess and we will receive forgiveness. That's not intended as a license to sin though. We should never sin thinking, "God will forgive me later." However, I do believe that He can forgive even that.
 
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Tolkien said:
That's it. However, I completely disagree with that St. Francis' idea. I believe for it to be biblically correct, we must always use words when we preach the gospel. The gospel as defined by scripture is summed up to be, "Christ died for the forgiveness of our sins." I don't think it's possible to "live the gospel".
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It has to be possible to live the gospel. Otherwise we're all going to Hell. That quote was not meant to be interpreted as 'I don't ever have to talk to share my faith', but it really means that if a Christian will live the life s/he talks about having, then people will notice and ask about in some way, thus giving way for them to vocally share their faith, even though they didn't have to knock on the person's door or even say a word to them to make them curious.

Jesus did this most everywhere he went. Even when he was hanging on the cross, the Thief looked at him and KNEW he was THE Savior and repented, not because Jesus recited scripture to him, but because of his actions.

I hope that clarifies that a bit.
 
meleeman said:
It has to be possible to live the gospel. Otherwise we're all going to Hell.

That quote was not meant to be interpreted as 'I don't ever have to talk to share my faith', but it really means that if a Christian will live the life s/he talks about having, then people will notice and ask about in some way, thus giving way for them to vocally share their faith, even though they didn't have to knock on the person's door or even say a word to them to make them curious.

Jesus did this most everywhere he went. Even when he was hanging on the cross, the Thief looked at him and KNEW he was THE Savior and repented, not because Jesus recited scripture to him, but because of his actions.

I hope that clarifies that a bit.
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Sorry, but what you're saying is actually not accurate. We are saved by what Christ did for us. THAT is the gospel. In order to live the gospel, then you must:

1) Live a perfect life from birth until death. Meaning, you must not commit any sins. Since the sin's of our father have been imputed to us, then we have already failed this.

2) Suffer and die for the sins of the world.

Is it possible for us to live the gospel?

The good works of our lives are an evidence of the faith that is in us. The way that we live our lives will not save others. It also does not create opportunities for us to share our faith. The bible does not say, "live a righteous life so others will come ask you why you are different." People should see that we are different, but they will not know why unless we speak the gospel message.

The gospel is not how to live a good life. The gospel is the message that we are all sinners and deserve death. God loved us so much that he sent his only begotten Son to suffer and die in our place. Christ payed the penalty for our sins. That is the gospel.

Once we are saved, our lives are an evidence of the work that God did in us. However, that is not the gospel.
 
1 John 3:16 -19

We know what real love is because Jesus gave up his life for us. So we also ought to give up our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If someone has enough money to live well and sees a brother or sister[f] in need but shows no compassion—how can God’s love be in that person?
   18 Dear children, let’s not merely say that we love each other; let us show the truth by our actions. 19 Our actions will show that we belong to the truth, so we will be confident when we stand before God. 20 Even if we feel guilty, God is greater than our feelings, and he knows everything.

John 6:28-29

8 They replied, “We want to perform God’s works, too. What should we do?”
   29 Jesus told them, “This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent.”


Matthew 5:13-16

13 “You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless.
   14 “You are the light of the world—like a city on a hilltop that cannot be hidden. 15 No one lights a lamp and then puts it under a basket. Instead, a lamp is placed on a stand, where it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your good deeds shine out for all to see, so that everyone will praise your heavenly Father.


Matthew 7:12

Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets.


James 2:14-19

  14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well”—but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?
   17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.
   18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.” But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.”
   19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God.[f] Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?


We have no power to save, only the power to reflect that power! We have Jesus within us, and he’s what reaches! We are vessels and servants to the purest of truth in life! We are to live in such a way with or without spoken words that the blind may see our kind, loving, and faithful God! Isn’t it awesome!!!!
 
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