In progress

I

Icthus

Active Member
Many of you know that there have been issues with Redeemed over it's life span. The officers have recongnized this and we have been working on a few issues. I wanted to post here to let you know a status of where we are.

First, the officers beleive that Redeemed is too complex of an organization to be lead by one individual. Particularlly because most of the officers have families and cannot spend as much time online as a guild of 200 some odd people needs. Therefore, the officers have been working on a new structure from top to bottom in the officer core and the general membership. This has taken some time but we are about ready to unveil it to the general public.

On this issue I would like to personally add that I have seen this organization, and I blame no one person but the system in place, chew up and spit out three very good men. I would very much like to have a system where it is a joy for people to serve and not a life draining experience.

Second, many people are very concerned that ToJ has a top down authority. The officers have been working with ToJ and the structure to understand how to better serve everyone. We are working on a system where Redeemed officers make decisions for the daily operations of the guild. They will in essence run the guild, but have some accountability to ToJ. I think in our minds it is something like the local church and how it works with a national denomination. The officers are involved in daily activities and can handle the issues. However, as a Christian organization, the officers feel a need to have an accountability structure.

I will personally add here, that this is an ongoing discussion and an open dialouge. Please no one, on the ToJ side or non ToJ side jump to any conclusions about anything that is said. I think no matter what happens we need an open NON-FLAMMABLE discussion (and this post is not the place for it).

Third, Redeemed will continue to offer membership to non-believers. They will be welcome here as a form of ministry. The system needs to be really well organized and run. We do not want those members who do not profess Christ to feel singled out, however, they will be held to a standard equal to that of other members. We will all have to work together to make this work, but the officers feel it is an important part of Redeemed and the MMO game style.

Another personal aside here, we all recognize the difficulty of working this out. However, the officers were united in wanting to offer this ministry. It is also being developed with no single person or persons in mind. Rather, it must be designed to work in many different situations.

Fourth, there are many different tensions inside of the WoW guild structure. One of those tensions is raiding verses non-raiding. The officers want those who do not raid to understand that they are important to the guild and a major part of Redeemed. However, we also understand that end game raids need to be there for all. We are striving to find a balance so the guild can be both a raiding guild and a guild for casual gamers too. This will be difficult. But, once we all identify the tension it becomes easier to manage.

We, as officers, also recognize there are issues with those that want Redeemed to have a major spiritual emphasis and those that come to Redeemed to play. Both of these are important aspects of Christianity: Fellowship and Discipleship. There is an inherant issues that I think we can all see. It must be managed with care to make sure that everyone understands that the spiritual emphasis is significant, while allowing for those who need to play feel free to simply play.

So, there is a short update on what the officers are working on toward the future of Redeemed. Please add your POSITIVE comments or constructive suggestions. IF you have any flames PM ICTHUS and we will discuss them in that venue or I will post them to officer.


May God bind us all together for His work.

matt
 
I know some of my posts have come off to Redeemed leaders as flames, or at the least sounded very confrontational. This is partly just the way I speak -- I have a very hard time with nuances (my psychiatrist has said I have mild asberger's) and I also have a hard time seeing (in writing) other peoples' emotions. I've disagreed with people, but I have NEVER (and do not now) felt as if any leader or group of leaders should be replaced. I don't have personal problems (or even bad feelings) toward any member of ToJ, Redeemed or Sanctification. I am also speaking from the standpoint of a former Christian Forums mod. The forums there are the largest (Christian) board in the world, and although I've never held a position in Redeemed, I'm speaking from experience, and not in any way accusing anybody of anything.

*deep breath*

You're trying to set up a leadership similar to a national church organization, but you're missing a major aspect of ANY national organization (which you've alluded to) -- accountability to the members.

Redeemed is here for the members and the members should have a primary say in how the guild is run. While not every decision needs to be voted on, using a vote to at least inform staff decisions would at least make members feel that they are being included.

Unlike a church, officers are appointed until they resign or do something outrageous enough to be asked to step down. Some officers (like Tek7) could never be removed. I see no way to change this (and no better system to change it to), but you need to be very aware that this can easily lead to a leadership that serves itself with great intentions. The rules, however, do not need to be set in stone. The rules are not here to control our actions but exist as guidelines that the members want to follow. If most members disagree with a rule, or if officers are making rules to control the members, there is a problem with the rules, not with those that break them. It's easy to get into a habit of "enforcing rules because that's my job" but when the average member has no say in the rules, and no way to go about changing them (as officers are promoted by the officers, not by members) you have to realize that you're enforcing rules that you alone are responsible for creating.

I've seen many different online organizations go this way by discussing most issues only in the officer's forum. Whether for privacy, security, or just because it's where the officers discuss everything else, when most issues are decided in a forum invisible to the members, you can be sure that the organization is being built to suit the leaders, and not the membership as a whole. Privacy is a particularly sticky issue. Privacy and a Biblical conflict resolution is important. However it should also be very transparent. When an inter-personal conflict starts to affect the entire guild, solving it in private is no longer wise.

As always, it is JUST as important for the average member to FEEL that they are involved in decisions as for them to actually have input. Knowing the leaders we have here, I truly believe that they want nothing but the best for the members, and truly listen to members. At the same time, I have felt in the past that my comments are utterly ignored and that my opinions don't matter one bit. Making the average Joe feel that his input is valuable is every bit as important as acting in his best interest.
 
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Deamiter said:
You're trying to set up a leadership similar to a national church organization, but you're missing a major aspect of ANY national organization (which you've alluded to) -- accountability to the members.

Privacy is a particularly sticky issue. Privacy and a Biblical conflict resolution is important. However it should also be very transparent. When an inter-personal conflict starts to affect the entire guild, solving it in private is no longer wise.
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If an employee makes a mistake, he is held accountable to the manager.....when the manager makes a mistake...he is held publically accountable to all his employees. I thnk it is very important that people in Redeemed see that happen here, in TOJ, as well.

Showing people how to resolve the conflicts can be important as the solutions themselves.
 
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The accountability structure for officers in not in the above post. But it is there. Some of the majors are being worked on so it was not ready for public consumption.

I will tell you that there is a time limit to GL's service. This will ensure accountablilty as every so often the leader has to come before the group. There are also some things being looked at for more accountability. We are not building a top down leadership structure.

I STRESS HERE THIS IS NOT THE FINISHED PRODUCT. Leadership felt a need to update the guild on what was currently in the works. This is a slow process because not everyone is on at the same time. Everything that has been mentioned is in the works in some form.
 
Please add your POSITIVE comments or constructive suggestions.
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As always, it is JUST as important for the average member to FEEL that they are involved in decisions as for them to actually have input. Knowing the leaders we have here, I truly believe that they want nothing but the best for the members, and truly listen to members. At the same time, I have felt in the past that my comments are utterly ignored and that my opinions don't matter one bit. Making the average Joe feel that his input is valuable is every bit as important as acting in his best interest.
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I STRESS HERE THIS IS NOT THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
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If the finished product was already inplace then that would seriously impact the statement Deamiter made....I think everyone should post their ideas on how to better the guild....before the officers pick the finished product.
 
I do not disagree.

But this is an update post. It was not meant to cover everything, so I do not wanted it treated as such.

IF you want changes, lets see them. Make a post and let everyone know what you would like to see so it can be discussed.
 
Icthus said:
...Please add your POSITIVE comments or constructive suggestions. IF you have any flames PM ICTHUS and we will discuss them in that venue or I will post them to officer.


May God bind us all together for His work.

matt
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The key word in that statement was Add. Thats what this thread is for. No one is being kept in the dark.

The new structure will have more than one Guild Leader and then many of the officer positions that are there now will stay.
 
I haven't seen a thread hold true to its intended form yet ...what conversation do you have that holds true to its intended form. Are we under the you talk the right way or you don't talk at all regime.
 
Deamiter said:
Redeemed is here for the members and the members should have a primary say in how the guild is run. While not every decision needs to be voted on, using a vote to at least inform staff decisions would at least make members feel that they are being included.
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I do agree with you on that, Deamiter

Maybe through a system of voting, everyone will have the power to decide what’s best for the guild. Also this method make would the officers’ job a lot easier since they would not have to decide everything for the guild, with voting the decisions would be made by the guild as a whole. And for anyone that voted against the decision would be allow the freedom for dicussion as long as it remains appropriate. Once the vote is final, all discussions about the decision would be close. I really dont know if this is the right answer but its what I think of it. I think we will find the right answer someday. Just give it time ;)
 
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