I got trolled hard. Tough question.

[Avesther]

I can't really disagree with this, the sticking point is that human suffering isn't as simple as sowing and reaping and sin and consequence.

Rest snipped because I want to deal with this point specifically in this post with the time I've got.

In my mind, it is. The opposite of a fallen world where sin is the norm is a world where sin never entered. What would that world look like in comparison?

There is a lot of crap that happens not because people deserve it, rather because sin comes and goes across this world. Sin and the author of Sin is the ruler of this planet right now. Had Adam and Eve, and every descendant since never allowed sin into this world, I am quite certain things will be quite different.

God will allow us to continue our collective downward spiral until we are forced to admit we are not capable of living peacefully. We can not govern ourselves because we all have our own knowledge of Good and Evil. In futility, we force our views of Good and Evil onto each other, sometimes with horribly dire results.

Too think he is doing nothing or has done nothing is foolish. God works every day, in every way to ease suffering and as I mentioned, he provided the means of avoided the ultimate consequence himself.

 

[Whon]

I have always loved the story of Job... Long have I prayed for the "patience of Job" I'd like to expanded even further on his life. We all know he lost everything in an attempt from Satan to prove that God's followers merely follow because of the blessings in their lives. But, Job learned quite a bit from his turmoils. Like in Job 2:10 "What? Shall we receive good at the hand of the Lord, and shall we not receive evil?" where he learns/sees that we can't hold good as a right and that it's not up to us to decide what God will do.

Job's friends (and us to be honest) try to build this bridge between our own sins and our own sufferings that they are connected in some manner. I truly feel that we are becoming a society that we serve God in hopes of good fortune. And when it got bad enough in Job's case it took losing everything/suffering to make Job understand that he served/worshiped God for Himself and he found the ultimate belief in God righteousness.

I guess the main lesson is that when we try and justify ourselves, by saying we don't deserve to suffer in such extremes, we are in turn condemning God, by saying that He is unjust.

 

[RyanB]

Wow thanks, lots of things highlighted, and the answer I suppose is

-If it is in accordance with God's will, he will likely bail you out
-Daily bread VS daily cake - needs vs wants
-He already saved us from getting pwn't in Hell, personally not too sure about that one or whether it is eternal, its hard to find anything biblical on it that isn't on the debate by whoever it is debating lawl different churches sayin diff things I hate it when it comes to that.
-Obviously, should one be blessed, he shouldn't spend it all on selfish ambitions like the parable of the rich man who built more barns thing
-When God doesn't bail someone out, we never knows what worse things may happen if he had.

However like I pointed out before, there wouldn't be any suffering in an ideal world, but unfortunately humans are jerks who love to make others suffer. Oppression is one thing that sadly never goes out of fashion. Places like Best Korea where the leader squanders away the nation's wealth when people don't even have enough to eat. Why doesn't a big hammer drop out of the sky to kill him? God has the power to prevent great evil from happening, but he lets it happen anyway at the expense of a lot of people.

So now and also from experience, I KNOW God answers prayers. Sometimes when we arn't even that desperately in need.

this. QFT

 

[Lazarus]

In my mind, it is. The opposite of a fallen world where sin is the norm is a world where sin never entered. What would that world look like in comparison?

There is a lot of crap that happens not because people deserve it, rather because sin comes and goes across this world. Sin and the author of Sin is the ruler of this planet right now.

Oh, I thought God was in charge...

Had Adam and Eve, and every descendant since never allowed sin into this world, I am quite certain things will be quite different.

God will allow us to continue our collective downward spiral until we are forced to admit we are not capable of living peacefully. We can not govern ourselves because we all have our own knowledge of Good and Evil. In futility, we force our views of Good and Evil onto each other, sometimes with horribly dire results.

Too think he is doing nothing or has done nothing is foolish. God works every day, in every way to ease suffering and as I mentioned, he provided the means of avoided the ultimate consequence himself.

Examples?

 

[RyanB]

Oh, I thought God was in charge...

Not sure why you felt they said otherwise.

Examples?

Of?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Oh, I thought God was in charge...

It's just semantics. God is in charge overall but let's sin run the planet, to an extent, becuase that's what we chose. One in charge can let others run things and still be in charge if it's by his allowance. Though if God let sin have total free reign I'm sure there wouldn't be an Israel much less a planet given Satan's plans.

 

[silverleaf]

Oh well so maybe there is a reason bad things have to happen to sometimes lots of people and can't be avoided...

 

[Kyrel Ruth]

This is really exciting, and very relevant! It's a free pdf book by the Rev Kenneth E Hagin The Coming Restoration

<3
.

 

[Lazarus]

It's just semantics. God is in charge overall but let's sin run the planet, to an extent, becuase that's what we chose.

Oh, I thought it was what Adam chose..

Ryan, I meant examples of God working every day to ease suffering.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Oh, I thought it was what Adam chose...

It's correct to say Adam and Eve made the first choice and we have to live with the effects of them letting sin in (reminds me of sins of the father and all) but we each continue to choose sin with our personal choices. I believe that's why some Christians say "I crucified Christ". They didn't physically perform the act but still accept personal responsibility for it becuase it was for each of our personal sins he died. Each of us tacked on a charge on the bill of sin and Christ payed it all. I'd feel remiss if I said it was Adam and Eve's choice/fault alone for my sins . Hugs .

Oh well so maybe there is a reason bad things have to happen to sometimes lots of people and can't be avoided...

It's not lots of people but John 9 illustrates one of the reasons bad things can happen to seemingly innocent people...

1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

6When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

7And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

 

[Lazarus]

I know, I get that, it's just a hard pill to swallow sometimes. -_-

 

[silverleaf]

Indeed, I know that is what is best to do. However apparently I'm not the only one who's a little hesitant. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm that committed in my faith yet to lay down everything and suffer the worst. Not to say I don't want to help, not to say I won't lift a finger. Just not prepared to give up EVERYTHING as of yet. Sorry if this does not go down very well with all of you. But are you willing to give up everything just to make a small difference? To die right now and get 100 thousand people to believe, it's worth it. However for just a small part to play in the scheme?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

I know, I get that, it's just a hard pill to swallow sometimes. -_-

I feel ya believe me T_T but with the acceptance of what I did to Christ comes the acceptance of what Christ did for me and with both comes the desire for me to do better. CHARGE!!! <runs over hill into battle with badly planned but well intentioned display of Christian emotion >.

Indeed, I know that is what is best to do. However apparently I'm not the only one who's a little hesitant. Unfortunately, I don't think I'm that committed in my faith yet to lay down everything and suffer the worst. Not to say I don't want to help, not to say I won't lift a finger. Just not prepared to give up EVERYTHING as of yet. Sorry if this does not go down very well with all of you.

More often than not love takes time and work no worries .

But are you willing to give up everything just to make a small difference? To die right now and get 100 thousand people to believe, it's worth it. However for just a small part to play in the scheme?

Ask me when it happens until then SURE THING! We can't know ourselves until the situation occurs. If I was to "attempt" to be honest I don't think I'd have a problem with the dying if I was certain those people would be saved. Unfortunately when it comes to my personal actions I'm a pretty un-confident guy. I have a list of completely well intentioned things I've said which were taken wrong. I'd probably give up my life when I should have been fighting (or much more likely vica versa) and cause a 1000 years of darkness, saving no-one and condemning many XD. Then again maybe God would hit me with certainty and I'd actually do right, only he knows.

 

[silverleaf]

Well I think God's cause is the best cause there is. All worldly causes, even anti net censorship that I'm fighting for, is only worldly, and this is eternal. However I'm not that passionate about spirituality or any other cause - yet. People have told me I'm either just young, or that I've just not been called/destined to do anything yet, maybe later in life, and many Christians just live perfectly normal lives. However I'd want to help out where I can, maybe God willing, after graduation I can volunteer in some place. However, giving up some time, money to do some good, stuff that will make a difference, is completely different than dying for another, another ten or even hundred.

While I'm unsure of my own position about the existence of eternal damnation (many people have differing views), by your beliefs, would you say if I die tonight, I'm saved? Man this cold feels like it could kill me any second but chances are it will boil over.

Lastly, how do I protect myself against trolls in future? I need something to smack them down with. hard. I can't let them continue to make me question stuff.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Well I think God's cause is the best cause there is. All worldly causes, even anti net censorship that I'm fighting for, is only worldly, and this is eternal. However I'm not that passionate about spirituality or any other cause - yet. People have told me I'm either just young, or that I've just not been called/destined to do anything yet, maybe later in life, and many Christians just live perfectly normal lives. However I'd want to help out where I can, maybe God willing, after graduation I can volunteer in some place.

In accepting Christ I try to give everything I am to Him I don't succeed but I will try. Christians aren't perfect but we try as commanded (Matthew 5:48) and become better people by the process of trying, Christ will take care of the rest. Sounds like you want the same.

However, giving up some time, money to do some good, stuff that will make a difference, is completely different than dying for another, another ten or even hundred.

God may not call you to die he may call you to live your life for him which has it's own difficulties and sacrifices. In some respects it could be considered harder depending on what you have to go through. Job cursed his life but Satan was not allowed to kill him.

While I'm unsure of my own position about the existence of eternal damnation (many people have differing views), by your beliefs, would you say if I die tonight, I'm saved?

It's probably not the answer you want but it's between you and Christ no one else. Sometimes people will make a statement contrary to core Christian principles, Christ never died, not everyone can be saved by Christ, you have to do a secret handshake to get saved , etc. which, if taken to be the heart of the speaker, would show definitively. Thing is no one but God knows another's mind much less their heart so words can't prove absolutely. If you want I can say a short prayer of salvation. That's all it takes to get saved but you have to accept it and truly believe which is between you and Christ...

Lord I know I am a sinner and have fallen short of your glory. I know that you sent your only Son Jesus to Earth, that He lived a perfect life, died to pay my debt of sin and rose again. That whoever believes in Him is forgiven and shall not perish but have eternal life. Jesus I accept you and your forgiveness come into my life that I may learn to love God with all of my heart, soul, mind and strength. Thank you Jesus. Amen.

Lastly, how do I protect myself against trolls in future? I need something to smack them down with. hard. I can't let them continue to make me question stuff.

1. Read the Bible. (I'd read the new testament before the old if you haven't already read the Bible)
2. Pray.
3. Have fellowship with Christians. Go to church and read things Christians have written. Even hang out with weird Christian gamers though that is last comparatively.

Be aware too that prayer and what Christians say is validated by the Bible and more prayer. Everyone is wrong sometimes, Christians are no exception and prayers can get muddled by our flesh. We need to grow in knowledge and faith to discern what is Godly and true least we be destroyed for lack of Knowledge (Hosea 4:1-6). It's all about getting that armor of God thing (Ephesians 6:10-18) I was taking about. You don't want to go fighting trolls without armor their dps is brutal! Regardless nothing you say will make them listen if the holy spirit does not soften their hearts.

 

[cc.slim]

But let us who live in the light be clearheaded, protected by the armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation. 1st Thessalonians 5:8 NLT

For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:16,17 NLT

Us is not afraid and there is no backstrokes! If just one does not know and you shared and he gets saved then you or shall I say WE done as we we're meant to do! What can or do, do you fear? Silly huh? A soul saved for eternity in trade for a worlds favor get real! Be not ashamed EVERS! If we die as my Savior then in darkness we will continue to reach! Therefore as We live then We will continue to reach! Fyi sometimes it is best to show what we don't know more so what we do. lol flip aka My dear old super great grand pappy left his shoes up on top of a mountain and low and behold +2000 yrs later they found his shoes underneath thawing ice even after he was told to quit using coal to burn and freon to chill hehehe yeah I know its well before the bronze age hehehe point is we don't know today or yesterday so how can one silly person know tomorrow? We Know and share through the power of FAITH! Sorry hehehe NOT! Give up what? Money? Corvette? Self assurance? Oh yeah I depend on Me lol silly? My brothers and sister in Christ that died in a tsunami are lights in darkness for those that did not know. The brothers and sisters in Christ that died in the earthquake are lights in the darkness for those that don't know! Will I witness to you? Fear what lol! My back is covered as promised! No backstrokes from me and I ask are you standing beside me?

 

[Avesther]

Oh, I thought God was in charge...

Ruler of this world Topical Study

This isn't symantecs, we choose to live by our knowledge of Good and Evil and not rely on Gods. We continue making such choices everyday, even though we know better. More generally, the world has choosen satan as its spiritual father. Looking at all the problems we face from starvation to poverty to climate to anything, we, collectively believe we can do something about it all instead of giving it all to Gods will.

Examples?

Of what? That God is doing something, or has done something? Would you care to be more specific?

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Ruler of this world Topical Study

This isn't symantecs, we choose to live by our knowledge of Good and Evil and not rely on Gods. We continue making such choices everyday, even though we know better. More generally, the world has choosen satan as its spiritual father. Looking at all the problems we face from starvation to poverty to climate to anything, we, collectively believe we can do something about it all instead of giving it all to Gods will.

Sorry I used the wrong word then . What's a word that means you are both correct but it depends on which perspective you are seeing it from? Uh drawing a blank on my poor linguistic skills, whatever, it's the same type of concept as the freewill & God issue again, both are true.

Too tired now, going into Gerbil sleep mode, later all .

 

[Avesther]

Sorry I used the wrong word then . What's a word that means you are both correct but it depends on which perspective you are seeing it from? Uh drawing a blank on my poor linguistic skills, whatever, it's the same type of concept as the freewill & God issue again, both are true.

Too tired now, going into Gerbil sleep mode, later all .

Then it probably is a matter of symantics. God is in control, in his control, he is allowing Satan dominion over us (in the context we have been talking) because that is what the world wants. I know what is right and still I find myself drawn to do the things I know are wrong.