Heaven!

the_great_eskimo_pie said:
Avoid it how? I am not sure if I understand the question completely... Please clarify.
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more or less hes asking if like.... you dont bunjee jump so not to die.

I would rather die quick and sudden death so like.... if i see a contruction building with lotsa stuff not really secured looking, i wont walk on that side of the sidewalk, but i dont live my life always looking for death or anti death so to speak
 
if something comes to kill me, unless good reasoning prevents me from doing so, i will accept death and take it.
 
Atown said:
if something comes to kill me, unless good reasoning prevents me from doing so, i will accept death and take it.
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Would you mind explaining this?

Give us some examples where you would accept death and take it.
 
if a man comes to my house and threatens to kill us all, i wouldt really care. sure a gun waved in my face might be scary but hey ive heard heaven is nice this time of year. am i going to try and be hero and might get myself shot? no. if he starts randomly shooting am i going to move. depends if he has bad aim........
 
Atown said:
if a man comes to my house and threatens to kill us all, i wouldt really care. sure a gun waved in my face might be scary but hey ive heard heaven is nice this time of year. am i going to try and be hero and might get myself shot? no. if he starts randomly shooting am i going to move. depends if he has bad aim........
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If a man came to my house and threatened to kill me and my family, my one and only goal would be to take that man out. If I die, it would be saving my family, not because I heard heaven is nice this time of year.

That is a sad, sorry outlook you have.

It just sounds like giving up. If your God does exist, what do you think he would say about your last moments?
 
I would love to see if that calm resolve survives having a gun stuck in your face. As a theory it makes sense, but the mechanisms for survival tend to be well ingrained.
 
Dark Virtue said:
If a man came to my house and threatened to kill me and my family, my one and only goal would be to take that man out. If I die, it would be saving my family, not because I heard heaven is nice this time of year.

That is a sad, sorry outlook you have.

It just sounds like giving up. If your God does exist, what do you think he would say about your last moments?
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t hats why earlier i said "unles i had good reasoning" i have none at current moment
 
Alright. To answer some questions posted towards me earlier. (Sorry I am without my own computer and only have snippets of time at the moment to post....)

I do not seek death. I do try to aviod it to a degree. However, anyone who drives a vehicle is in a position to die. Anyone who goes up in an airplane is in a position that they could die. Sitting at your computer there is a chance you could die.

I live my life to the fullest, trying to savor each moment with my family and friends. If someone came into my house and waved a gun in my face I would be scared. however that fear would evaporate if siad person were to try and harm someone else and it was within my power to stop it. If I died saving someone else. Saved or not. My death would not be in vain. If they were unsaved, well now they have a chance to learn who the Lord is and why He had to die on the cross and they would have a chance to be saved. If they were saved, they now have more time to spread the News of Jesus.
John 15:13

Do I think heaven is the place I am going? Yes. And no one, no matter how much proof they think they have, can change my mind. Do I seek death in order to get to heaven sooner? No. God will call me home in His time. Whether it is today. tomorrow or 100 years from now. I'll live for Him until then.
 
the_great_eskimo_pie said:
Do I think heaven is the place I am going? Yes. And no one, no matter how much proof they think they have, can change my mind.
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That's what it all comes down to.

That, my friend, is unreasonable and irrational.

How can you expect others to be reasonable towards your arguments when you outright refuse to be reasonable to others?

That's like saying you believe the Eiffel Tower doesn't exist, no matter how much proof others show you.
 
Dark Virtue said:
That's what it all comes down to.

That, my friend, is unreasonable and irrational.

How can you expect others to be reasonable towards your arguments when you outright refuse to be reasonable to others?

That's like saying you believe the Eiffel Tower doesn't exist, no matter how much proof others show you.
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Unreasonable? Perhaps. yet it is my belief. I will listen and respond to opposing opinions. Yet I highly doubt my mind will change.

How have I not been reasonable towards others?
By stating that my mind cannot be changed it should prove a challenge if you will to try and change it.

And what does the effil tower have to do with religeon? :P I'm teasing. I understand your point.
 
the_great_eskimo_pie said:
Unreasonable? Perhaps. yet it is my belief. I will listen and respond to opposing opinions. Yet I highly doubt my mind will change.

How have I not been reasonable towards others?
By stating that my mind cannot be changed it should prove a challenge if you will to try and change it.

And what does the effil tower have to do with religeon? :P I'm teasing. I understand your point.
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Now you're backtracking. You said SPECIFICALLY, "And no one, no matter how much proof they think they have, can change my mind."

Now you're saying it's highly doubtful you will change your mind. When you issue such closed minded statements as your original one, why should anyone take it as a challenge? You won't listen to logic, you won't listen to reason, you won't listen to evidence...that's not a challenge, that's pure stubborness.

When haven't you been reasonable to others? Whenever you preach to a nonChristian. You expect THEM to be reasonable, to be willing to change their minds, but YOU WON'T.

Sorry, you can change the wording of your post as much as you want, but I think, in your heart, the first one is most accurate. You simply aren't willing to change or listen objectively because you're afraid you could be wrong. It's that fear that blinds you to everything else. Is there any other reason you would ignore facts and evidence presented to you?
 
You make a great many assumptions there DV and I would tread lightly. The ToS states. "1.Members will not exhibit behavior or interact in a manner that limits, restricts, inhibits or intimidates other members. This includes, but is not limited to defamation, flames, slander, insults, profanity, stalking or giving unsolicited negative interaction with, towards or upon another member."
And you are very close to the edge in my opinion. And not just because it was directed towards me.


My reasonings cannot be changed because I know what I beleive, why I believe it and I choose to believe it. When I preach to a non-christian, I do not expect them to be reasonable at all. In fact, I have been persecuted for my beliefs without even preaching to or towards someone. How come I am always the one who has to be tolerant?
I find that rather callous of you to say.

Pure stubborness? Or is it the purity of my belief? What you call stubborn, someone else, say of the buddist faith might call it being pious.

I can change the wording of my post however I want to whenever I want to. That is my choice.

Who said anything about me being afraid? I have been tested. By those of other faiths as well as those with no faith. I am not aftraid to debate faith and religeon or anything dealing with them. calling me afraid is like calling me a coward when I leave a fight before the fists start flying. I find it rather hurtful that you would say something like that.

Now that I pulled way off topic, back to Heaven. Since I have not had a chance to read all posts made, has anyone posted what the Bible describes heaven as? Quoting chapter and verse? There are a alot of places.
 
the_great_eskimo_pie said:
You make a great many assumptions there DV and I would tread lightly. The ToS states. "1.Members will not exhibit behavior or interact in a manner that limits, restricts, inhibits or intimidates other members. This includes, but is not limited to defamation, flames, slander, insults, profanity, stalking or giving unsolicited negative interaction with, towards or upon another member."
And you are very close to the edge in my opinion. And not just because it was directed towards me.
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I suggest you research the definition of defamation. I have not participated in either libel or slander.

I would also point you to this part of the TOS: "10.Any forum member who posts complaints without first trying to resolve the matter privately will have his or her thread locked and/or deleted and possibly receive a warning or temporary ban."

And no, you did not try and resolve this matter privately before posting for everyone to see.

My reasonings cannot be changed because I know what I beleive, why I believe it and I choose to believe it. When I preach to a non-christian, I do not expect them to be reasonable at all. In fact, I have been persecuted for my beliefs without even preaching to or towards someone. How come I am always the one who has to be tolerant?
I find that rather callous of you to say.
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You truly do have a limited point of view, don't you? You live in a society that is mostly Christian, how, exactly, can you be persecuted? Try telling a mixed group of people that you're an atheist and see the funny looks and the raised eyebrows.

Note that I didn't say anything about being tolerant. Christian members here have already shown me that they feel they don't need to be tolerant. I'm sure you can do a search to find a thread on that subject as well.

You may think it's callous, but nothing I have said is untrue.

Pure stubborness? Or is it the purity of my belief? What you call stubborn, someone else, say of the buddist faith might call it being pious.
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Piety has nothing to do with being stubborn. You are confusing the point I am making. You were the one that crossed over from piety to stubborness when you stated that you would refuse to change your beliefs even in the face of proof and evidence.

I can change the wording of my post however I want to whenever I want to. That is my choice.
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Again, you are twisting my words. I didn't say that you change the wording if your post, what I said was that you were changing your wording from post to post, essentially changing your argument. It's a bit difficult to address your posts in a reasonable manner when you keep changing what you're saying. So I will give you the opportunity to start over with a clean slate. Please clarify: Are you saying that no matter what evidence, proof or reasons are laid before you, you would still refuse to change your outlook? Keep in mind my Eiffel Tower analogy.

Who said anything about me being afraid? I have been tested. By those of other faiths as well as those with no faith. I am not aftraid to debate faith and religeon or anything dealing with them. calling me afraid is like calling me a coward when I leave a fight before the fists start flying. I find it rather hurtful that you would say something like that.
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I'll use your analogy and see if this helps. If you're not willing to fight (debate), then why are you here? You've already stepped into the ring and thrown your own blows. Either stay and fight or leave the ring. Now you can play dirty or play by the rules, the choice is yours.

That aside, that wasn't the fear I was talking about. There are many, many stories of deconversion. What's the one thing they all have in common? FEAR. It's a very difficult process that is extremely painful. I suggest you google a few stories and read through them. Once you understand the fear that I am talking about, you will understand that what I was saying wasn't meant to be hurtful, but rather, eye-opening. I shouldn't have made the assumption that were familiar with stories of deconversion, because it is obvious that you are not. For that, I apologize.

Now that I pulled way off topic, back to Heaven. Since I have not had a chance to read all posts made, has anyone posted what the Bible describes heaven as? Quoting chapter and verse? There are a alot of places.
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Would you mind sharing these? I would also appreciate it if you were to break down how many words were translated as "heaven", because they should not all be used interchangeably.
 
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