Halloween and You

Dannypb

New Member
I hope this isnt too far off topic for this site, but I felt a need to vent and this IS a forum. Plus there are a lot of halloween thingys in WoW right now anyway. I would appreciate your opinion on the matter, especially if you disagree.

There has been a lot of talk in my area this year about Halloween, and whether it is a sin to participate. A lot of ppl have given all kinds of reasons and feelings on the subject. I for one am not about following my feelings, but following the Bible. So I went to the Bible to see what I could find on the subject. 1 Corinthians Chapter 8 stood out to me. The concept of food sacrificed to Idols.

History: Corinth was a very sinful city! Romans considered Corinthians of this time as an immoral people, so that should tell you the deal. A lot of food (maybe even most) served or sold in Corinth was "processed", "blessed", "dedicated", ect at pagan temples. Eating food sacrificed to idols was commonplace for that society.

How I think it applies to Halloween: If you want to read Chapter 8, it will help you see where I'm going. In the first 6 verses Paul basically says, we know it means nothing, its just food. And he's right (not because I say so, but because he's God's Apostle), but does it apply to Halloween? I think it does in that the "darker" side of the holiday, practiced by Pagans, is meaningless. It's just a fun time for the kids. Now if we were a people about doing whats best for ourselves, I'd stop there, but we are a Royal Priesthood doing our Fathers work, so we cant ignore the rest of the chapter. In verses 7 through 10 Paul points out that for some Christians, it does have a meaning, it is sin to them and if they follow you into that activity they would be sinning, even though you, by the act itself, are not. Here is one of those places where the rubber meets the road in Christianity. In verses 11 - 15 Paul points out that we have a responcibility to keep our brother from sin. Cane asked, "am I my brother's keeper?", the answer is yes, we are all eachothers. If by doing an act that some around us think is sin, even though it is opinion and not doctrine, we risk sinning by causing them to sin before God, by being rebellous towards God in their act that is sin to them *1. This concept applies to many things in a Christian's life. But it basically comes down to sacrifice. If we follow the law then we are concerned with what we shouldnt do. The example of Jesus is to complete the law in sacrifice for others. Another words, we are concerned with what we should do.... for others.

So..... my short answer is yes and no. if the believers around you have no problem with Halloween, then have fun, and do it in a way to Honor God. And if it's not the case then sacrifice it for the Lord and your brother (or sister). What's your opinion on the matter?

*1: This sin is like a child who sneaks up ot a new toy laid out for him. The child could just run up and take it, since it is for him, but he wants it and sneaks up to it and "steals" it. The sin is not the taking of the toy, but the disobedience to a perceived "rule" and to his parents.

Note 2: I had a woman who recently left her husband, son and daughter for another man, and is still living in sin, tell me that we Christian's should not participate in halloween. This offended me. This is one of the things the Corinthian Church was guilty of, pointing outward at the sins of others, without concerning themselves with their own sin.

sorry so long

Dan
 

Neirai the Forgiven

Christian Guilds List Manager
<I can post here, right? lol>

I think it helps, when thinking about Halloween, to look at it from an "out-side-the-church" perspective.

Most non-Christians are not Satanists... they are Secularists. Therefore, what they believe about Halloween is...
"One day of the year, everyone sets aside their preconcieved prejudices and gives free candy to children, regardless of who they or their parents are, racially, religiously, or otherwise."

I know that isn't always followed, but that is the secular idea of Halloween. And you know what? that doesn't sound too bad from a Christian point of view. Oh yeah, and doesn't it seem strange that the only people who refuse to participate in the gratituous giving are Christians, the people who SHOULD be spreading the love around?

Of course, I know that the Holy Spirit may have very very excellent reasons to tell you not to celebrate Halloween, and I'm not going to judge you for not celebrating or for celebrating... it's all the same to me. But understand that the "evil of Halloween" is WAY pwnd by the good of Jesus Christ... and that if the powers of evil DID have the upper hand on Halloween night, it'd only be because the children of God aren't doing their jobs and fighting it, because the Bible tells us that the Gates of Hell are totally pwnd by the church. Instead of being a night where Christians avoid their neighbors, Halloween should be a night where Christians go out and spread love amongst the children of the world.
 
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Shagz

New Member
My first reaction is that Halloween is like Christmas: both have been so commercialized/secularized that you will find very little of the original meaning present in the public space.

Coming from another angle: the general public isn't really in favour of performing pagan rituals in the public space, nor are they really in favour of prominently displaying the nativity in department store windows; but we can all agree that kids (and adults) have fun dressing up and eating candy, and we agree that it warms the heart to exchange presents and rests the spirit to have a few days off work.

But more to your point, I think you're generally right. This is the same arguement and bible verses that members of the ToJ have come back to when it comes to violent or occult-influenced content in games. Many ToJ members swore off games like Neverwinter Nights and Quake due to occult/satanic symbols and references, and they didn't feel right playing them. Other members have no problem playing a Necromancer, or a Terrorist or any other # of things because they don't feel tempted and see it only as entertainment.

ToJ's a bit different though because the relationships between members are virtual and distant. I can always stop playing Quake while other members keep on playing and I won't be any worse for it. I just don't go to the Quake forum or I uninstall the game or whatever.

For something like Halloween, or something more serious like alcohol or whatever, and for a relationship that's close to you emotionally and geographically, then you have to be careful. I would probably think twice about dressing up as a forest spirit or something if I had a friend or family member who is a new christian, having converted from something else.

Hmmmm...I wonder if you came at it from the other angle: what happens if you dress up as the Pope? To a mainline protestant or secularist, there's nothing offensive about that and some may find it funny, but to a catholic or anti-catholic, the costume is potentially offensive. (each for completely different reasons)

So yea...it comes down to just like you said: being concered about what we do...for others. Don't do the thing you find entertaining, but someone else finds offensive, in front of them, or if you value the relationship enough, don't do it all.
 
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ajmucha

New Member
You guys pretty much already hit all the areas that i could rant on. so i dont have much to add, though i will add that i did go to a small party witha few close friends of mine, suprised i didnt get arrested for my US Army Ranger costume, which, as i'm told, features a realistic cardboard rpg.
 

GoodOleTaco

New Member
Here in Mexico not only Halloween is observed but also a festivity named Day of the Dead in which families remember their desceased loved ones. They will attend to the cementeries to bring food, flowers, drinks and even music to those who lay in the tombes. It would take me forever to describe this so I will post a link describing it.

Myself and my family do not participate in this celebration of the dead. I beleive it to be a non christian/biblical celebration although it is considered a religous festivity.

On November 1st people visit the tomb or build an altar to honor the dead. A visit to the cementary, and usually ends with a party and drinking...:(

On November 2nd the children are honored.

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~rjsalvad/scmfaq/muertos.html





A special altar put up in November 2001 in Puebla's Casa de Cultura paying tribute to the Mexican workers killed in the World Trade Centre on 9/11.







So not only do we have to contend with Halloween...we have 2 more days on which deat is honored and celebrated. May God forgives us all!
 

Dannypb

New Member
It's actually a Catholic thingy.... I know a Catholic Mexical family here in Delaware that had a big fight cuz the daughter didnt wear a red ribbon across her belly while pregnant to have God hold off any birth defects. There are places where Christians accept man made doctrines. Although this stuff I think would come under the heading of old wives tales that should be avoided (I cant remember the exact scripture reference right now)....................

OK I looked it up... 1 Titus 4:7
Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.

I do see a diference between the Day of the Dead and the American Halloween though.
 

Dannypb

New Member
well, i dont mind it sooooo much, but my prob is, what does Missionary2001 not like? I dont know how to respond because I dont know what is **** is his estimation.
 

GoodOleTaco

New Member
/cough

That doesn't seem like a very kind reply.

Just a note: Please use text links to images or thumbnail links to images in the future.

I think Tommys reply meant no harm. Prob just his thoughts on halloween. Could be the language barrier.

Sorry about the size of the images. Learning how to use forum still.

As to the actual holidays. Christians in Mexico launch an information campaign a few weeks before halloween and day of the dead festivities trying to make people aware on where this all comes from.
Mexico is a very religious country bun unfortanetly..forget God. FOr the past few years theres a new cult popping up worshiping death. >They called it The Holy death. Many Catholics are doing it and even drug lords. Very scary stuff..

"Santa Muerte" - also known as Santisima Muerte. Santa Muerte is a rising star in Mexican folk religion - she is the patron saint of prostitutes, gangsters, and those on both sides of the law. Santa Muerte is a saint of death and dark magic, often venerated on Dia de los Muertos (Day of the Dead).





Welcome to Santa Muerte, a cult which dates back centuries and currently has some 2 million faithful in Mexico. Were you a Santa Muerte follower, you'd be in eclectic company: the faithful range from politicians to kidnappers and gangsters.

On Mexico's Mean Streets, the Sinners Have a Saint: The Catholic Church has condemned Santa Muerte services as devil worship, and law enforcement authorities have linked the cult to violence committed by drug traffickers and child prostitution rings. In a spate of killings in the northern state of Sinaloa this year that left more than 50 people dead, authorities reported finding tattoos, rings and pendants bearing the image of the Santa Muerte on the bodies of many of the victims.

Homero Aridjis, a novelist and poet, recently issued a novel based on the growing appeal of Santa Muerte. He said that most of the followers seek protection from the evil that lurks in their lives. Others, he said, seek darker blessings no other saint would approve.

"Some ask her for protection from harm," said Mr. Aridjis. "But others ask for protection from harm even as they do harm to others.

"She is their accomplice."

Here's some more background on this cult: 'St. Death' calls to the living in Mexico City, Saint Death offers Mexicans solace

Housewives, Hoodlums Fight for Mexico Death Cult: Dressed in white and clutching statuettes of their beloved skeleton saint, followers of Mexico's fast-growing Santa Muerte death cult marched across the capital on Friday to demand recognition of their faith.

Angered by the Roman Catholic Church's disapproval of their ghoulish cult and a government bid to strip their main shrine of its license, housewives marched alongside petty criminals chanting: "Listen, government, the Saint is fighting."

"We are being persecuted," said Catholic Bishop David Romo, who has become the black sheep of Mexico's Catholic church for leading services to the bejeweled, scythe-wielding Santa Muerte, or Saint Death, in the rough Mexico City neighborhood of Tepito.

Santa Muerte, a centuries-old pagan cult which has sprung back up in recent years to claim some 2 million faithful in Mexico, the second-biggest Catholic country, has followers that range from elite politicians to kidnappers and gangsters.

Followers do not see a contradiction between their worship of death and being Catholics. In Mexico, it is not uncommon for Catholic churches in indigenous villages to practice unorthodox rituals and worship their own saints.

Worshipers, many of whom spring from Mexico City's grimiest, most lawless suburbs, say their offerings of fruit, dollar bills, tequila and cigarettes bring them protection.

"She helps me when I'm ill or in danger. She's saved my life several times. I've been shot at and assaulted but I'm still here," said prostitute Sandra Cadena, 22, of the macabre figure she goes to worship on the first day of each month.

As she spoke, marchers carried life-sized Santa Muerte statues in white robes, looking like gaudy versions of the grim reaper.

"She's my life. She's everything. Underneath we are all like her," said Alberto Avalos, 40, holding a large picture of the saint. "If I went to a Catholic church with my shaved head and tattoos they'd say I was a thief. Here nobody judges you."

Yet a perceived tolerance for criminals, who visit Santa Muerte shrines to pray for protection from their enemies, is exactly what concerns the authorities.

DEATH TO ENEMIES

The government is threatening to revoke a license granted to Romo's church in 2003 on the grounds the cult goes against Mexican rules on religion.

Catholic priests complain that criminals use Santa Muerte to justify and glamorize their lifestyles.

Romo said Santa Muerte was being wrongly portrayed as a haven for criminals and said he would take legal action if necessary to protect the cult.

"We are feeling the black hand of the church. They want to take away our license because they say we are unofficial, that we are an underground faith with an illegal nature," he said.

"The allegation that we are all criminals is completely false. The reason for all this commotion by the clergy is the growth in our faith."

The spurt in interest suggests many Mexicans today relate better to the cult's colorful, unorthodox practices than to the austere Catholic faith, which in Mexico has always been spiced up with pagan elements from pre-conquest religions.

At the Tepito shrine, the start point of Friday's protest, pop song odes to Santa Muerte blare from a speaker and candles flicker, different colors representing health, prosperity, justice and love. Some are marked: "death to my enemies"

A man glanced up as a Santa Muerte statue swept by dressed in a black lace dress and purple veil, her vacant eye sockets peeping coquettishly past a black feather fan.

"How beautiful she is," he sighed.

PLEASE PRAY FRO MY COUNTRY WHICH IS DEEPLY INTO WORHSIPING ANYTHING OTHER THE OUR GOD ALLMIGHTY.
 

LITSAFALDA

Prayer Angel, Moderator
I am not going to get into the halloween discussion but actually there is a Christian observance of those who have passed away......died. It's called "All Saints Day" and it's a day to remember those who have passed before us especially in the last year. Just for your info.
Blessings,"Angel"
 
I think Tommys reply meant no harm. Prob just his thoughts on halloween. Could be the language barrier.

Thats right morhy-butterfly :p language barrier. i didnt know crap was so foul language. I just translated from finnish to english. In finnish it not a foul language.. so thats it :D

:cool:
 
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