Gay Episcopal Bishop

Started another topic with that rlxc...
And Mustard, you seem to be never sure on just about any one thing that possibly brings into question blacks and whites. So really, no surprise that you're not really on much of a stand on either genetics or choice. Relativism does that, I've noticed. Sorry, but it's the truth.

And Grand Master...your logic is flawed. A man in power could easily become a mass murderer (courtesy gun control) of his nation, and surrounding ones, should he wield enough might.
That said, does this speak true to my nature?
A man with a telescope could easily view his hottie neighbor changing in her room with the open window...does this speak true to the purpose of telescopes? Or to my nature?
A man has a magnifying glass...he can use the glass to roast a hole through an ant's backside...does that make the purpose of a magnifying glass to roast ants? Science sure has come a long way if THAT is the point.
Sorry GM, but try a little harder next time.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I dont think it really matters if its a choice or not. The point is that Jesus saves.. he has come to make you a new creation.. I take this to mean what it says.. If you did stuff that contradicts the bible before you got saved, then it can be gone when you do.. Regradless of what it is
Click to expand...

agreed ... "go and sin no more" is fundamentally the Chirstian life .... and that means whether I still have the temptation to surf where I should not, or watch what I should not , what matters is what I do with that feelings .. ie .. do I put it under the authority of Jesus and run like hell or ....

so , to have someone in leadership that is a practising homosexual ... totally out ... but someone who has repented , and is NOT practising ...etc etc... that could be acceptable but maybe only if the church leadership above him does a thorough "due diligence" .... no sin is bigger than any other (except for the cursing of the HS) but the consequences differ ... and the consequences for a pastor ending up in divorce court or having an extramarital affair results in a lack of trust in the church...and ultimately I think that is a big factor in whether people in church accept leaders ...

S
 
Ultima, you state that a person can choose the object of their sexual attraction. I guess this must mean that anyone can become sexually attracted to chairs or fish so long as they want to be. Yeah, maybe tomorrow I will go and get it on with a tree. I just have to tell myself that trees are sexy and then I will be able to get sexual gratification whenever I want because trees are everywhere and I know they won't file a sexual assault charge against me. Sweet.
 
what about those wonderful people that are attracted to dogs? and/or use dogs as tools for sexual gratification

Is that genetic or a choice?
 
Ahh...Grand Master. So you make a choice to go after the tree? Is that what you're telling me? You tell yourself it's sexually appealing, can sexually gratify you, and you believe it. You go for the tree, because YOU want to. Not because the tree swayed ever-so-seductively its sashay-able limbs. But because you wanted to.

I also like little puppies. I really like little puppies. Really like em. Sometimes I sleep with doggies. Small doggies. Big doggies. I like the small ones though...and, sometimes, when I feel reeeeeeally naughty...I commit bestiality.
Because I like doggies. Yep.
That, my friend, is a choice. A choice that people make. And if you wish to go on your bent, smileys on the Internet can be sexually appealing. In fact, your monitor could provide for a very satisfying partner, if it's screen is plastered by
tounge.gif
 
tounge.gif
 
wow.gif
 
laugh.gif
 
smile.gif


Now you can't tell me those don't turn you on? I mean, there are SOME people genetically predisposed to be attracted to smileys...right? I mean, our ancestors were just like that, right?
And then you have to tell yourself this: is the tree gratifying you, or is it just you imagining it while you gratify yourself? Like David Spade said, or something like this, "Since I can't have sex with her, I just stare at a picture of her and indulge. Which is essentially the same thing."

MAN! My CD tray is calling to me! It's genetic!
You can't say that about everything. Even in the days of the Bible bestiality was prevalent, it would seem, for laws to be made against it by God. And you know what happens to those poor kids who get into animal-screwing? Probably get some very nahstay diseases, more than just backhumpin', hey? But then again, that's their genetic preference.
And if that was the case, what's stopping people from inserting genes here and there that make me go doggie? Or gay? Or just making everyone straight?
Kinda hard right?
 
I don't see any of this as genetic, god would not create someone who was predetermined to be gay. I think Satan twists viewpoints and lust takes over, and people trick themselves into thinking they're gay.
 
Some of you are getting a little carried away...chairs?trees?dogs?cdtrays? Let's get back to reality.

The question is male/female vs. male/male, female/female and should a homsexual (let alone a divorced person) be permitted to hold a position of leadership in the church?

According to scripture the answer is a resounding NO!
We should welcome all sinners into the house of God in order to instruct,counsel and comfort them but they should in no way be led to believe that thier sin is ok.That is not showing love at all. If I am about to drive over a bridge that has been condemned and you just smile indulgently and send me on my way I will surely fall and perish. The only way to show love is to turn me from my destructive path.
 
Some of you are getting a little carried away...chairs?trees?dogs?cdtrays? Let's get back to reality.

The question is male/female vs. male/male, female/female and should a homsexual (let alone a divorced person) be permitted to hold a position of leadership in the church?

According to scripture the answer is a resounding NO!
We should welcome all sinners into the house of God in order to instruct,counsel and comfort them but they should in no way be led to believe that thier sin is ok.That is not showing love at all. If I am about to drive over a bridge that has been condemned and you just smile indulgently and send me on my way I will surely fall and perish. The only way to show love is to turn me from my destructive path.
 
oops! Sorry about that double entry..I'm new at this and clicked the wrong spot.
 
my question was a request in the area of sexuality being genetic.

(I'm of the opinon that all sexuality is a choice)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Kidan @ Aug. 17 2003,3:24)]my question was a request in the area of sexuality being genetic.

(I'm of the opinon that all sexuality is a choice)
Click to expand...
I was referring back to the original topic of an Episcopal priest being openly homosexual.

As to genetic or choice...I can't pretend to know the answer without hesitation. Certainly the practice is a choice. Each of us has some undesireable inclinations be they sexual or not. We are responsible for resisting any urges that we know are contradictory to God's word.
 
Well that's what I was saying with my CD trays, trees, dogs and other examples. Is it genetic for me to have these desires for a piece of plastic that feeds into a scanner my CD's code? Or wait...I have lust for binary numbers! Is that genetic? Doc, help me out here!
It is a choice. You could go as ridiculous as you need, and you still can't escape the answer: you make a choice: straight or gay. Genetics has nothing to do with it, and as I told Grand Master above, that is so. I CAN turn gay should I wish, but I do NOT want to. That is my choice. And a gay can just as easily become straight, should he wish to. It takes time and effort...especially if you're used to living out the choice of homosexuality. After all, what would those hellfire Baptists have to hinge against God if God MADE people gay?
"Those...sick, twisted, individuals shall surely burn, for thus saith the Lord: 'destroy the gay cities!'" Yeah. That's South Baptist logic right there.

It is a choice. Not a birth. Not amounts of heat or light application to the skin, either. It is choice. And also, comparing animals and humans sexually is incorrect. Animals, I am certain, do not probe out each other in dates, buying drinks, walking to the movies, enjoying the beach together, or anything. They go at it and then they're done. Comparing how an animal's sexuality is acted out is like saying, "So...plants continue in life through asexual and sexual reproduction." That's how flowers work...have you ever seen a gay flower? If you do, tell me, and tell me if they continue in life much long after. And also tell me if they were burst out that way, or they turned sometime in the middle of life...
 
To anyone who says homosexuality is genetic, I say this: show me the gene.

Even if you eventually could show me the gene, God is powerful enough to help you resist those temptations! Our bodies are flawed because of original sin, but trust in God can overcome that.
 
I suppose these genes will be as ellusive as the alcoholic gene, or the wife battering gene. People will try any defense to justify their behaviour without ever having to take responsibility for it.
 
Even if sexual preference wasn't genetic, that doesn't mean it has to be a choice. Other possible factors that could determine sexual preference could be a person's experiences or maybe some type of mental pathology.

As for people who are into bestiality - I think they are probably just not right in the head.

I suppose all those crazy schizophrenics chose to go nuts one day, just like some people choose to be gay. I mean, they were fine all their lives and then around 20 years old they begin talking to themselves, hearing voices, and start attacking people. Obviously it has nothing to do with genetic factors otherwise they would have been born crazy. They just get up and decide to lose their mind one day. There you go, schizophrenia is a choice just like being gay. Wow, it's so easy to say that everything we think or feel is a choice.

Cndbacon, there have been many heredity studies done showing that alcoholism is largely a genetic disease.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]People will try any defense to justify their behaviour without ever having to take responsibility for it.
Click to expand...
There is a difference between a propensity or predisposition for doing something and actually doing it and I have made that clear in previous posts. However, I'm not sure that everyone here appreciates this.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Grand Master @ Sep. 01 2003,3:27)]I suppose all those crazy schizophrenics chose to go nuts one day, just like some people choose to be gay.
Click to expand...
that is something totally different some people talk themselves into believin it, or they may just be demon possessed, or being constanly attacked by them so they make up "helpers".
 
(Raises hand)
"Teacher GM, I have a question...what if the genetic alcoholic didn't HAVE any alcohol to ever sample...can we then call him an alcoholic, or pin the fact that he doesn't have a desire for alcohol (seeing as how he's never tasted or sensed it, perhaps smelt or felt it ("Whoops! Sorry about the spill there buddy!")?"
I mean, come on. If you desire to pin the fact that all flaws in human character are genetic then what right do you, GM, have to say that bestiality is so much different from homosexuality? Or CD-tray-iality? I notice you never answered that one...
And preference v. predisposition...when are you predisposed and when are you preferring? For instance...I like kitties. I reeeeeally do. Now is that genetic or choice? How do you know? Who can tell me? What if I say it's genetic but some geneticists say otherwise? However, in twenty years some geneticists say it's possible...then what happens? Who's right?

You CAN'T say what you want to justify actions. Man has to take responsibility and cannot fall back on genetics to keep him up, because humans largely do not understand the human genome AT ALL.

So now I like guys because of that one time I hurt my head doing a somersault.
And schizophrenia...we don't understand that very well. There is an interesting theory that says the mind fractures itself up to keep itself in order: it divides itself into different portions to keep it sane.
Hrmm....
"Wow, it's so easy to say that everything we think or feel is a choice."
...do genetics give me this impulse to cross the street? Do genetics give me this push to disobey parents? Do genetics give me this urge to fail in school? Do genetics force me to beat the crud out of the guy who didn't move fast enough in the lunch line? Do genetics make me go Tak?
I don't think so...there IS a mix of choice and genes in humans...genes mainly determine the chemical composition of the body...choice determines the actions of the body. For instance...I don't choose to keep my heart going. I don't choose to have my tan skin. That's genetic until I tick out into death.
I choose to refrain my hand from slitting my throat, or puncturing my own heart. I choose that. I choose to make my hands grasp the knife. I choose to cross the street, to scale the mountain, to cut the paper with scissors, to hit W to run and S to backpedal and A and D to sidestep.
I choose that. I do not choose to breathe. I am not predetermined to have this unnatural pull towards radiation, or this unnatural love for the same flesh, or to lose myeslf in drink...I choose. No one else does.
HOWEVER, there are such things as hereditary diseases...I don't choose them, genes chose those. Alcoholism is not a predetermination...it is a preference. If I never am near alchohol, I can never go for it, can I? If Dad drank the hard stuff but I don't, and Mom's parents dug smoking and the booze, but she doesn't do either of them, then it's hard to say that it's genetic...because I don't do them, and I am the result of a couple of generations of supposedly bad habits like smoking and boozing.
People get addicted to it...I will not be forced to make raw beer if I'm born from alcoholic parents...it's a choice I make. It's a choice THEY made.
The line between choice and urge are quite different...if you say that, I could screw any girl in sight because that's a natural human want...however, to date, I have not...why? I made the choice. I controlled myself. Now tell me, was it genetic to resist? Or am I an anomaly?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top