Gaming going evil?

[RyanB]

I think with gaming it really comes down to how you separate fantasy from reality. If you feel that a game having "gods" in it is blasphemy...then by all means you shouldn't be playing it. I personally don't have a problem with fantasy settings (IE: Harry Potter/etc)...but can certainly understand if some people do. I don't think there's anything wrong with me watching Harry Potter...but I wouldn't let my young daughter grow up on it.

To answer the original question...yes, I think games (like most entertainment mediums) are going down the tubes on the morality scale. I remember being absolutely shocked when I played the original God of War. The violence was over the top, which was expected...sort of had an arcade-like feel. That didn't bother me, personally. What made my jaw drop was after I cleared the first act and found myself in a sex mini-game. I've been gaming for over 20 years and that was a first for me. Since then, I've been thoroughly reviewing content of games before I play them and am shocked at the sheer number of games that include nudity (or at least ridiculous cleavage), sadistic violence, etc. It seems to me like each new game is trying to out-do the last for shock value.

As far as Diablo is concerned...I look at it as a fantasy setting. Diablo simply means "devil", not "lucifer". I think this one strikes a chord with people namely due to having a lot of similarities to reality, though. You have devils, angels, fallen angels, etc. Other than that it's mostly point and click violence.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

What made my jaw drop was after I cleared the first act and found myself in a sex mini-game.

You've obviously never played a Leisure Suit Larry game (not the two new ones...they sucked). I play games that have a good story...I don't care about violence or language or anything else for that matter. I know in my heart that I won't go out and do any of those things, and I trust in God and myself that as a mature Christian that I won't let them affect me. Have I ever put down a game due to content? Sure I have. Ever hear of a game called Phantasmagoria? I love Sierra point and click adventures...but this game had some pretty brutal scenes in it, and I just didn't feel that it was a game that I should play.

 

[RyanB]

You've obviously never played a Leisure Suit Larry game (not the two new ones...they sucked). I play games that have a good story...I don't care about violence or language or anything else for that matter. I know in my heart that I won't go out and do any of those things, and I trust in God and myself that as a mature Christian that I won't let them affect me. Have I ever put down a game due to content? Sure I have. Ever hear of a game called Phantasmagoria? I love Sierra point and click adventures...but this game had some pretty brutal scenes in it, and I just didn't feel that it was a game that I should play.

Oh, I have known that these games existed. Something like Leisure SUIT Larry kind of gives that away on the title. I guess what I meant was...I wasn't expecting it in GOW. I wouldn't expect it in Dragon Age unless I had looked...which brings to my mind the question...is it ok to play a game that has inappropriate content if it is entirely avoidable?

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

Oh, I have known that these games existed. Something like Leisure SUIT Larry kind of gives that away on the title. I guess what I meant was...I wasn't expecting it in GOW. I wouldn't expect it in Dragon Age unless I had looked...which brings to my mind the question...is it ok to play a game that has inappropriate content if it is entirely avoidable?

After this post I'm removing myself from the thread because the last time this topic came up I received an infraction. I think its okay to play a game no matter the content...unless its strictly a pornographic game (which I don't even think they make anymore) They way I look at it is this, if you know the game won't influence you in a negative way, or that your realize its just a game then your safe. If not then don't play it.

I think Elader Arkon said it best...

Like all things related with your walk with Christ: If you find you have problems with it, don't do it. End of Story, and don't look back.

 

[Josh T.]

I agree with the quote from Elader Arkon as an answer to Ryan's question. I also do think it's ok to play a game if the content is entirely avoidable...if you can avoid the content that you normally don't play games because of then that gives you something to avoid that specific content. Anyhow, I think it all does come down to a heart issue, which I've seen a few people hammering on this thread.

 

[Tek7]

Lots of Japanese games do character development well (albeit unoriginality) and yes FF is pretty but ultimately preaches morals I can't agree with. It's...

"Humans can do anything even beat God" (FF 9)
"That western style church that specifically teaches peace and love is really a front for a demon" (Breath of Fire um 1 I think. I've played more than one game like this)

"That western style church that specifically teaches peace and love is really a front for a demon" (Every JRPG ever)

Fixed.

I've played and enjoyed many JRPGs over the year, but I know that any time any character that looks like a Catholic priest or pope appears, that character will be a villain.

I won't go into Japan's rocky relationship with Christianity. It's a long and tragic story and a fascinating read for history buffs. Also keep in mind that Japan celebrates Christmas even though only approximately 2% of its population is Christian.

But I will say that reading about Japanese history, having at least a vague (though admittedly limited) understanding of modern Japanese culture, playing many JRPGs, and watching many anime series, I've concluded that Japanese artists and writers aren't directly opposed to Christianity. It's simply that Japanese culture, as a whole, doesn't seem to believe in anything outside themselves. Artists and writers just use religious symbols and art to help tell a story (or, in some cases, to make things look pretty).

Case in point: Neon Genesis Evangelion, a (relatively) famous anime series, uses powerful imagery and symbols from Christianity (the cross, crucifixion) and Kabbalah (the Sefirotic Tree) to tell a story with themes derived largely from the theories of Carl Jung, a pupil of Sigmund Freud.

Multiple anime series feature a character singing, humming, or playing Amazing Grace on an instrument--often with the utmost respect. Does this mean some anime series writers are trying to express their respect for Christianity? Unlikely. The more likely explanation is that someone heard the song and thought it sounded pretty.

I've seen sufficient evidence to conclude that Japanese game designers include churches, demons, and other religious imagery in games not to offend or make a statement against Christians, but instead for a much simpler reason:

They think it looks cool.

And considering how well the Castlevania series has sold in America, it seems enough people in the West agree to perpetuate the trend.

And if you're upset that Japanese game designers borrow from Christianity because "it looks cool," take a look around for a plastic Buddha statue, a fortune cat, or a three-legged money frog next time you go to a Chinese food restaurant. How many of the non-Asian employees behind the counter or other patrons in the restaurant do you think know the story behind those symbols?

I'm not trying to excuse the laziness of Japanese game designers who portray every single character that looks like clergy as secretly evil (which is a trope so played out that it no longer surprises anyone when it's revealed that the priest is actually a mini-boss). Laziness in writing is an issue for a separate post.

I just want to state my reasons why I believe Japanese game designers in general are not antagonistic against Christianity.

EDIT: And after saying all that, I still agree that if you feel convicted when playing a certain game, then stop playing it and don't look back.

 

[RyanB]

I won't go into Japan's rocky relationship with Christianity. It's a long and tragic story and a fascinating read for history buffs. Also keep in mind that Japan celebrates Christmas even though only approximately 2% of its population is Christian.

This is just an uneducated guess, but something tells me that people in Japan wouldn't be offended if you wished them a merry Christmas.

Anyway, I just wanted to say I agree with the sentiments above...it's a heart issue. I also agree that for the most part things aren't meant to be offensive except in the obvious cases (like GTA/etc).

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

It's not that Japan is personally hostile towards Christianity, that I agree with, as to quote my earlier post they seem to look at Christianity as an amusing mythology. We are just juxtaposed to their beliefs so easy fodder when they need an antagonist in their fiction. However many games clearly push glorification of humanity and Taoism, this is what I avoid not the farcical deities. To my mind deity or deities in these games are there so they can be used as a plot device to say humans are better. To best glorify humans they aren't declared false. If a similar story was written from a Christian perspective the gods/goddesses would be shown to be false and redirect lost faith towards the one true God not humans. I'd be happy if JRPGS went as far as redirecting that faith towards a moral absolute but they don't even do that. The message "nothing can stop the power of the human heart/will" re-iterated as much as it is has to effect people's beliefs by sheer volume alone. For me I'm just tired of looking the other way as this moral absorbs everything so I try not to support it with my money. I can't relate to heroes with those morals anyway so why play those games ... of course then there is anime T_T.

To clarify I'm not abstaining from buying games solely because it may cause me to sin that's only half the reason to avoid a purchase. To use Dragon Age as an example, am I going to lust after the goat in the bordello in Dragon Age? NO! "baaa" I say . Thing is the game's sexual content would not be acceptable in a mainstream game 20 years ago and it's not acceptable to me now. To me buying some games is like buying a product knowing the money goes to spread Muslim teachings, you are working against yourself if you want to spread Christianity. It's games that change standards by degrees that we need to be aware of not just the "shocking" ones. I once stumbled on a SECULAR page that praised Dragon Age for helping making sex in video games more mainstream (I didn't keep the link sorry). If secular people are recognizing and lauding it as pushing boundaries of acceptability why support it? Let's follow the course, Mass Effect had a little sex and people liked it, Dragon Age had a little more and people liked it and as Bioware probably likes the money they make they will stay the course as long as they kept getting it, if we are lucky that is. See once people become tolerant of something you can not only push it further but disclaimers and choices to avoid content will slowly be deemed unnecessary. If there is a sequel to DA what if taking the immoral route gets you better items/story arcs in game? What if you aren't given a choice to avoid doing something are you going to stop playing midway? Yes Bioware certainly isn't pushing sex alone and there are worse games to avoid, probably before this one, but I'm not getting on Bioware's bandwagon either knowing where they are consciously trying to head.

Let me put it this way as Christians many of us long for a good Christian game. Something that not only reinforces our values but has a chance of influencing the unsaved with Christian beliefs. The secular world wants the same thing for their ideas and it's not always going to be a "shocking" game that will work towards this goal. They long for media that reinforces their immoral beliefs as acceptable and hope it will influence people to those ends. It may not be a conscious thought but they want it just the same, after all who wants the alternative, shame, rejection and guilt? We are supposed to be in the world but not of it so how is buying what the world is being any different than them? It falls to us to not only support Christian values but abstain from spreading the immoral ones.

In closing lots of games may have no effect on standards of acceptability. I can't say for absolute any single game, Dragon age or whatever, will change anyone. Also as nothing of this Earth is perfect you'll end up settling on an imperfect game at some point if you play any. What I can say with full confidence is that overall media does have an effect on moral standards. So take a stand, show you have free thought not a mass lemming mentality and resist buying something once in a while.

 

[OrryW]

Fixed.

I've played and enjoyed many JRPGs over the year, but I know that any time any character that looks like a Catholic priest or pope appears, that character will be a villain.

Wasn't the church a good place in Midgar in FFVII?
You survived by landing on it and flowers could grow there.
Actually, I think FFVII was about government corruption, and the problem with technology growing faster than people's intelligence. (I wonder what sort of problem the Japanese would have with that last one)

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Wasn't the church a good place in Midgar in FFVII?
You survived by landing on it and flowers could grow there.
Actually, I think FFVII was about government corruption, and the problem with technology growing faster than people's intelligence. (I wonder what sort of problem the Japanese would have with that last one)

I think that was the only part of FF 7 that had a church in it at all and it was not more than a pretty backdrop. I think what Tek is referring to is when there is a western style organization of a church not a just a physical building. It's also worth noting...

Spoiler

Aeris, the one involved with the church to begin with clearly isn't a Christian as she prays to the planet for the White Materia. Also, about the flowers, according to the FF wika...

Even though people claimed nothing could grow in the slums, because the Mako Reactors drained all the life out of Midgar's surrounding areas, she managed to grow her own flowers in the Sector 5 Church due to the presence of the Lifestream there.

FF7 is heavy on the Taoism. They pray to the planet, the planet is said to have a will and believe people return to the lifestream when they die. The game also gave me the impression that the planet is more important than the people on it at times.

Also I wouldn't say the game was about government corruption or technology growing to fast but a thinly veiled statement about humans exploiting the environment. "Shinra Electric Power Company"could have just been called the government but they called made it a power company so they could be seen as environmental exploiters.

Completely irreverent statement: Is it just me or is Jenova similar to Lavos (except of course Chrono Trigger is 100X better than FF7 ).

 

[OrryW]

Completely irreverent statement: Is it just me or is Jenova similar to Lavos (except of course Chrono Trigger is 100X better than FF7 ).

Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger are both made by Square. And the church building as a pretty backdrop was in response to things from Christianity are always depicted as evil not to say it was a Christian church.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger are both made by Square. And the church building as a pretty backdrop was in response to things from Christianity are always depicted as evil not to say it was a Christian church.

The church is FFVII is actually fairly important, not in the grand scheme of the game but in the whole FFVII universe...at least to the main characters and the people in the slums.

 

[RubberDucky]

Chrono Trigger is infinity times better than any game I've played to date.

I see your point about the Taoism, and I do recognize that they were only paraphrased undertones. So far I have agreed with everything you have said Gerbil. It's true that most moral degradation that happens in games and in society in general occurs gradually, as a sharp decline would draw too many gasps from even the secular. Desensitizing is a gradual process done over a number of years and projects. I think that we are Christian gamers need to keep our heads on and our hearts tuned to God, so that our morals won't break, much less break.

I believe that it is important for us to keep our guard up, for what one generation tolerates, the next will accept.
Joey.