FOCA and You

B

Berstromme

New Member
Elections have consequences. The "Freedom of Choice Act" or FOCA is one that we now face in America. I ask that you educate yourself on the issue what the bill is and what it will do if it passes Congress and is signed by our new President (something he has promised to do).

Here are some links you may find useful, I'll try to be "fair and balanced" and refer you to NARAL as well to see what they say. After you read their link check out this one. Hopefully gives you some point counterpoint ideas of what is involved.

Educate yourself, pray and act as God inspires you. Some options:

Fight FOCA
Support NCHLA
Write or call your representatives in the House and Sentate.

Pray for those who have had, perform, or are contemplating abortion that they will experience God's love and healing.
 
"FOCA will force faith-based hospitals and healthcare facilities to perform abortions."

This here is probably the most insulting part of the whole bill, if true.

Indeed, elections have consequences.
 
There are two movements on the "Pro-Life" side: Child killing regulators and the Person-Hood movement.
One side..has voted for and supported Child killing regulations & regulators. (Kill some kids and hope that in the long term it will end abortion or reduce abortions)

Any law that ends with, "And then you can kill the baby" is not pro-life, sadly many believers have supported such regulations and their leaders..Turns out it's much easier to kill a blob of tissue..then an innocent person..

The other side draws a line in the sand at "Thou shalt not Murder" and invokes the person-hood of the baby in the womb, who has a *God* given right to life, thus attempting to regulate how to kill the baby violates God's law that reinforces human value. Turns out it's a bit more difficult to kill an innocent person..

Incrementalism is good, as long as it's, well, good and doesn't violate "Thou shalt not Murder". If you can save some kids great, but not at the expense of killing others, or advocating, supporting those who do.

With every vote, every support cast for anyone who is willing to kill a single innocent child we have undermined the value of human life. Which has far..reaching consequences .. We celebrate (without even reading for ourselves) the PBirth abortion ban.. (as if.. it could be a victory to outlaw one form of child killing)..And yet that law, doesn't even utterly outlaw that procedure, but turns out to be a public relations speech on how to kill kids more humanly (If you read it, the gross language will sicken you) Judge Roy Moore, who was removed for refusing to remove the ten commandments from his court...celebrated this ruling, because he heard Christians leaders who support child killing regulations cheering... And then... he read it for himself...and was sick...and he repented on a radio program and was ashamed.

Anyways, you might enjoy this radio broadcast from Kgov.com:
http://kgov.com/broadcast/stream/1692/hi

Here is the summary:

ARTL Press Release Widely Distributed: President Obama to Press Reset Button; Freedom of Choice Act to Kill Faulty Pro-life Strategy --
President Barack Obama promised Planned Parenthood that, "The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act" (FOCA). If he keeps this promise, American Right To Life president Brian Rohrbough said, "President Obama will press the reset button on the pro-life movement and reverse decades of legislation, regulations not built on the firm foundation of personhood, but misguided laws built on sand shifting in the political wind." Catholic Bishops are warning that FOCA would regulate even pro-life medical facilities, pushing Catholic hospitals toward aborting children. "These bishops actually opposed valid personhood bills," said Rohrbough, "FOCA trumps regulations, and personhood trumps FOCA," said Rohrbough, "because personhood invokes..." Read the conclusion at AmericanRTL.org!

I was happy to hear that these Bishops said they will not be forced to kill kids, but will close thier doors if need be.
 
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Well, maybe what I'm about to say will be unpopular but there you go. I am not pro-abortion. I think it is a terrible thing, not only for the child who will never see the sun but also for the women and their loved ones that go through the process. I read through the FOCA bill and found that basically it is saying that the state may not make it illegal for women to have an abortion. It also says that in states where it is illegal women cross the border and get it done where it is legal anyway. In countries where it is illegal, women have illegal abortions and the rate of women who die from such abortions is very large. We are talking, in the thousands. So not only the child dies but the mother as well. Making abortions illegal does not seem to provide a solution to abortion. It seems to me that it makes the situation worse. Like I said, I'm not for abortion. I don't like that it happens. I don't like that there are clinics devoted to killing the unborn child. But I also don't think that standing outside clinics with big signs chanting 'baby killers!' is going to help the women going through this trauma see the light of Christ. Nowhere on the bill did I see anything about forcing facilities to provide this function to women. The only mention of facilities I could find was that they would do things in different states and that's why the bill is a federal issue. So as far as I understand, a doctor/facility could very much choose to refuse to do this. If a lawsuit is brought against them for doing so, I'd say fight it with all your might. A woman may have the right to choose to take a certain action but so does the doctor. I mean it is called Freedom of Choice. If the doctor can't make a choice, then, it isn't freedom. I suppose my thoughts can be summed up like this: the woman caught in adultery by the Jews wouldn't be redeemed by a stoning. If she will be redeemed, it is through Christ's compassion. I'm not sure that I've got it all figured out, but this seems true to me. V I

Pax
 
Chaska,
Here is the provision/finding that will be used to force every health care provider who receives federal funding to provide ALL women's reproductive health needs to include abortion:

"(10) Legal and practical barriers to the full range of reproductive services endanger women's health and lives. Incremental restrictions on the right to choose imposed by Congress and State legislatures have made access to reproductive care extremely difficult, if not impossible, for many women across the country. Currently, 87 percent of the counties in the United States have no abortion provider."

FOCA will allow Congress to deny funds to those institutions, "forcing them to choose" to continue to receive Medicare and other Federal Program dollars by providing abortions or stop receiving federal funds from Medicare and other Federal Programs and not provide abortions. The government by providing Federal funds to a health care provider who chooses not to provide abortion services would be in violation of this portion of the bill: "(2) discriminate against the exercise of the rights set forth in paragraph (1) in the regulation or provision of benefits, facilities, services, or information."

I understand where you are coming from shouting "Baby Killers!" seems to have been rather ineffective. I also understand the argument that Danny brings up about the legal strategy to date as being ineffective. The point I'm trying to stress is that FOCA goes beyond the public's general understanding of Roe v. Wade's effort to guarantee for a "woman's right to choose."
 
We are happy to hear you are not a Christian Pro-Abort and that our disagreement will primarily be about tactics.


"Nowhere on the bill did I see anything about forcing facilities to provide this function to women. The only mention of facilities I could find was that they would do things in different states and that's why the bill is a federal issue."
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That law is invalid.

.. because it violates thou shalt not murder. (I'm not concerned all that much about the fine print) No law, legislation, bill is valid if it violates thou shalt not murder and attempts to usurp God making it permissible to intentionally kill innocent ppl. We are not to sit around and take votes on whether killing innocent ppl is valid or not and then accent to it and start working out the details/fine print on how to go about it. (The Nazi's did this)

Laws justifying the intentional killing of innocent ppl are invalid (as Peter said, "We must obey God rather then man") (Only God has the authority to take an innocent person (committed no *crime* worthy of death) into the next stage of life) We have given up on that principle, and now we are trying to put out all these fires as a consequence. "Hm.. when can we kill the child?" "How can we kill it?" "Can we rip it's head off or..burn it to death?" "We need to make it safe as possible to.." Forget about murder being wrong..lets figure out how to do it safely.. Recall Jesus rebuking the religious leaders of his day ..for making the laws of God ineffective..and replacing them with the "Commandments of men"..? (Matt 15)

It also says that in states where it is illegal women cross the border and get it done where it is legal anyway. In countries where it is illegal, women have illegal abortions and the rate of women who die from such abortions is very large. We are talking, in the thousands. So not only the child dies but the mother as well. Making abortions illegal does not seem to provide a solution to abortion. It seems to me that it makes the situation worse.
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Pro abort laws and organizations that make money killing kids are often not the best source for Godly logic/reason.

If someone trys to murder another person and ends up hurting themselves in the process that is a consequence of violating "Thou shalt not Murder". I am so thankful that it's painful and even life-threatening at times, for me and my loved ones to commit crimes. Thank God. We should never attempt to make it safe for ppl to commit crimes: Rape, Murder, kidnapping, theft, w/e the crime is. If the Nazi's for example were putting themselves at risk in gassing Jews.. no one should suggest a safer way to murder Jews. That is not loving. "My kids are going to do drugs, I will buy them and provide them a safe place to do it". That is not the love of God.

But I also don't think that standing outside clinics with big signs chanting 'baby killers!' is going to help the women going through this trauma see the light of Christ.
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Activist Christians:

There are no biblical Godly figures that were not activist. Rebuking the wickedness of their day while pointing the way to repentance is love. And depending on the audience, sometimes they were gentile, other times harsh.
Jesus was gentle at times..other times he warned that those who utterly reject him that he will have them slain at his feet.. (Luke 19:27) So it depends.. He was not always nice..and this image that some have of him handing out flowers..to ppl..and never saying a harsh word is wrong. A strong rebuke can foster repentance, just as much as a soft word can..It depends on your listeners attitude..and lvl of resistance..

The Church we support is an activist Church and protests not only abortion mills, but the houses of the Drs that kill kids. They have saved about 100 kids per year and many of their thankful mothers have become Christians. And while people condemn the pictures they show.. many do not condemn the action it's illustrative of.. We want to cover up..the ghoulish truth...it takes the pressure off us.. and we can't make money killing kids if we truly had in mind the "Informed Choice"..of the woman.. Because even pro aborts know it's easier to kill a blob of tissue then a person..and women might be less likely to kill the "fetus" if you call it a "person" and show those horrible pictures.. Ever wonder why people making a pro-abort argument do not typically open up with those images and then try to justify it?
 
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I wanted to post a few things in response:

1) planned parenthood and CRR give faulty statistics on deaths from illegal abortions. this has been proven over and over. and they do it worldwide. Pro aborts (esp CNN and other liberals) jump on the bandwagon citing these false statistics of women who die annually from illegal abortions and then everyone takes it as fact. A few liberals in particular like to say things like "overturn roe v wade and numbers will rise to 5,000 deaths annually from illegal abortions" this just isnt true. We need to do some real fact checking from unbiased sources (even prolifers sometimes exaggerate stats to help their side). Abortion related deaths (LEGAL and illegal) are well under 1000 per year since the invention of antibiotics (1940s) and birth control (1950s). As a matter of fact "The Journal of the American Medical Association quotes official estimates from the National Center for Health Statistics showing an 89 percent decrease in abortion-related deaths by 1966".

It is plausible that reported numbers are inaccurate. there have been "coverups" for the family's sake, I'm sure etc. But the reported number of abortion related deaths was 235 in 1965 and there has been a steady decrease since then. Even if you TRIPLE that number (which would be an exaggerated number) it would still only be 1000. and that pales grossly in comparison to the genocide.. the 1 MILLION plus babies who are murdered every year.

90% of illegal abortions and being performed by physicians and are not the 'coat hanger' abortions everyone thinks they are.

"While president of Planned Parenthood, Dr. Mary Calderone pointed out in a 1960 American Journal of Health article that Dr. Kinsey showed in 1958 that 84% to 87% of all illegal abortions were performed by licensed physicians in good standing. Dr. Calderone herself concluded that "90% of all illegal abortions are presently done by physicians."
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2) besides this, the coat hanger/back-alley argument is logically flawed.

"the fact that restricting access to abortion has tragic side effects does not, in itself, show that the restrictions are unjustified, since murder is wrong regardless of the consequences of prohibiting it"
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We should do what is right and what is godly. When do we start legalizing murder for the safety of murderers?

My question is: who protects these babies.. who protects the most vulnerable of us who cannot speak for themselves.. if followers of Christ won't? we have the power to legally forbid this inhumane genocide.

fetus-299x300.jpg
 
Well then, if it forces facilities that think it wrong to provide the function, I'm not cool with that. By all means fight it. Just make sure you fight it well with Christ in mind. (I'm Canadian so, it's your gov't)
 
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