End Times

Thanks Arkanjel, but you're missing the point.

Those prophecies came from the Bible, correct?

My point has been that generations of Christians have been using those SAME prophecies for 2,000 years to justify their belief that they were living in the last days.

You haven't answered why you, in THIS generation, believe you are living in the last days, when every Christian generation before you believed the same thing. If they were incorrect, why?
 
Why do I think we are living in the last days? Because those prophecies are all being fulfilled just as we were told they would be right before the coming of the Son of Man. No generation before this one has seen those prophecies fulfilled. We have. Open your eyes to the world around you, this world is in a bad way right now. Massive epidemics of bird flu, massive deaths in Africa. Wars in every corner of the globe. Madmen with nuclear wepons pointed at each other. Massive storms wiping out entire cities, Volcanoes going off around the world, earthquakes shaking everywhere. False prophets on every corner. Homosexuality being embraced by governments. The list goes on.
 
Yes, I agree the world is in bad shape, but once again, you are missing my point.

The world has ALWAYS been in bad shape, in one form or another. That is why every preceding Christian generation has used that as justification for their belief that they were living in the last days. They were erroneous. I am saying that YOU are also erroneous for the same reasons they were.

You missed the second half of my question which I will bold for you:

You haven't answered why you, in THIS generation, believe you are living in the last days, when every Christian generation before you believed the same thing. If they were incorrect, why?
 
Let me answer your question with a question. First of all, who is telling you that every generation before believed "they" were living in th end times?

Second question:

When the world continues to degrade and God's judgments upon this earth become more and more, until it is apparent that these disasters are not just "natural" occurences, but rather "supernatural" occurences; will you still continue to deny Him for who He is? If that answer is yes, is it because of pride that you will deny God, or are there other reasons. When the Son of Man breaks through the eastern sky to claim His inheritance, what will those people left standing think?
 
Arkanjel said:
Let me answer your question with a question. First of all, who is telling you that every generation before believed "they" were living in th end times?

History.

From wikipedia:
The very earliest Christians in the first century AD had a number of false alarms about when the End would come; they believed it would come during their lifetime. Paul had compared the end of the world with a mother's birth pang, and the image implied the world was already pregnant with its own destruction, but no one knew when it would happen. When the converts of Paul in Thessalonica were persecuted by the Romans, it was believed to be a sign the end was near. However, doubt rose when already in the 90s Christians were saying "We have heard these things [of the End of the World] even in the days of our fathers, and look, we have grown old and none of them has happened to us". In the 130s Justin Martyr declared God was delaying the end of the world because he wished to see Christianity spread throughout the world. In the 250s Cyprian wrote that Christian sins of that time were a prelude and proof that the end was near.

However, by the 3rd century most believed the End to be beyond their own lifetime; Jesus, it was believed, had denounced attempts to divine the future, to know the "times and seasons", and such attempts to predict the future were discouraged; yet the End was given a date with the help of Jewish traditions in the Six Ages of the World. Using this system, the End was fixed at 202, but when the date passed, all hopes were placed in 500 AD. As this date passed, the End faded over the horizon and became increasingly remote.


Second question:

When the world continues to degrade and God's judgments upon this earth become more and more, until it is apparent that these disasters are not just "natural" occurences, but rather "supernatural" occurences;

Supernatural events cannot be scientifically verified. Why do you believe natural disasters are supernaturally created? Who were they created by? God or Satan?

will you still continue to deny Him for who He is? If that answer is yes, is it because of pride that you will deny God, or are there other reasons. When the Son of Man breaks through the eastern sky to claim His inheritance, what will those people left standing think?

When have I ever DENIED God? I'm starting to sound like a broken record here. Just because I am an Atheist doesn't mean I am a strong atheist, which is defined as someone who denies the existence of God. I am not a strong atheist because they have the same problem that theists do...they can't prove their position. A weak atheist, on the other hand, LACKS THE BELIEF in God due to a lack of evidence. That is what I am. That is why I continually ask for evidence.

Assuming I deny God is like me assuming you are a Catholic because you said you were Christian.
 
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From Endtime Ministries:

Rebirth of Israel

There is no greater prophetic fulfillment. The nation of Israel was driven from her land in 70 AD. For almost 2,000 years, the Jewish people existed without a homeland; yet, while being sifted through the nations, they retained their identity. The low point came between 1940 and 1944. Hitler was determined to implement his "final solution." When Allied soldiers entered the Nazi concentration camps, they were horrified by what they discovered. Six million Jews had been gassed, shot, tortured and cremated. In 1944, if you would have told the soldiers that opened these camps that the Jewish people would have their own nation and would become the premier military power in the Middle East by 1967, they would have thought you were crazy. But that is exactly what happened. The most amazing thing about all of this is that it was prophesied over 2,500 years ago. The prophecy of Ezekiel 37 is called Ezekiel's bone yard. Verse 12 states: "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel." The last part of this prophecy states that it will come to pass in the latter days, just before the Battle of Armageddon. It is at Armageddon that Jesus returns to earth.

Drying Up of Euphrates

The prophecy of Revelation 16:12 has lain quietly for almost 2,000 years, virtually defying fulfillment. It declares that the mighty Euphrates River will be dried up at the time of the Battle of Armageddon. But who is kidding whom? The Euphrates is the principal water source of the entire Middle East. This is like prophesying that the Mississippi River will be dried up! This Euphrates prophecy just appeared to be impossible. At least it did until the shocking headline appeared on the front page of the Indianapolis Star, January 13, 1990. It read, "Flow of Euphrates To Be Stopped for 30 Days." The article explained that Turkey had built the huge Ataturk Dam. Thirty days would be required to fill up the newly constructed reservoir. So the Euphrates was temporarily stopped. The river is flowing again now. However, as of 1990, the mechanism is in place that can stop the flow of the Euphrates at will. The prophecy states that, at the time of Armageddon, the flow of the Euphrates will be dried up to facilitate the invasion of Israel. It will really be very simple. Just push the button, raise the dam, and the Euphrates stops. But remember, it's only been possible since 1990!

An Economy Run by Numbers

Revelation 13:17: "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." The prophecy simply states that, during the endtime, everyone will need a mark or a number in order to participate in the economy. How could such a system possibly be implemented? Until recently, it couldn't. Only since the invention of the computer and the advent of the Internet, has the fulfillment of this ancient prophecy been remotely possible. Now it is becoming commonplace to see articles proposing a cashless society. Who hasn't been prevented from using a credit card because of forgetting a PIN number (personal identification number)? Experiments are already being conducted with using eye scans, face scans and fingerprints for proof of identity. Positive ID has become so necessary in a world that increasingly does business "online." The new money of Europe, the euro, has been in use for over two years. Millions of euros are traded every day. And yet to this point, physical euros do not exist. All transactions have been electronic cashless! Euro notes and coins will be introduced in January 2002. Can a cashless society
work? Europe has proven that it can. Between online transactions and the use of smart cards, the technology presently exists to set up a cashless society. The only blockade is public acceptance. How long will it be before society is able to get used to it? The Bible is crystal clear that the prophesied economic system will be implemented during the final three and one-half years before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Never possible before, totally possible now! Most of the prophecies of the Bible are written in symbols. Only four or five give the literal name of a person or a place. Two of these special prophecies appear to have come to pass during the last fifteen years.

Chernobyl

In Revelation 8:10-11, John saw what he described as a star falling from heaven. He said the name of the star was called Wormwood. On April 26, 1986, the world's worst ever nuclear explosion occurred. The Chernobyl nuclear power plant located in the Ukraine malfunctioned, releasing ten times as much radioactivity into the air as was released at the bombing of Hiroshima in World War II. So far, 125,000 have died as a result of the accident. The nuclear cloud created by the Chernobyl explosion was carried by the winds into Europe. The resulting nuclear rains filled the rivers of Europe with the nuclide Cesium 137. People who drank the water or ate food touched by the water ingested the deadly nuclide. Doctors and scientists estimate that over 2 million people are presently infected by Cesium 137, which ultimately results in cancer.
The Ukrainian word for wormwood is chernobyl. If we were reading a Ukrainian Bible, the passage would say, "the name of the star is called Chernobyl."

Saddam Hussein

Revelation 9:1-11 prophesies a time when smoke will come out of the bottomless pit. The sun and the air will be darkened by the smoke. When Saddam Hussein was forced to withdraw from Kuwait in 1991, he wreaked his vengeance by setting 700 of the world's richest oil wells on fire. As a result, the sun was not seen in the area for the next three months. At noon, it was as dark as at midnight. In this apocalyptic vision, John saw what he described as locusts coming out of the smoke. Only these were not ordinary locusts. He said that the locusts had breastplates of iron, the faces of men, and their stings were in their tails. John heard the sound of these "locusts." He said, "the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle."

Does this sound like a description of the modern helicopter to you? It does to me! Remember that John had never seen a helicopter. He was merely attempting to record what he saw in his vision. The most incredible part of this prophecy is verse 11, "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in
the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. Both Abaddon and Apollyon mean "the destroyer." Many translations of the Bible literally say they had a king over them whose name is the destroyer.

Why is this so important? When Saddam Hussein was born, his mother decided to name him Saddam because the name means "the destroyer." She did this because her pregnancy had been so terribly painful. The one who was over the darkening of the sun and the helicopters participating in that war, is called "the destroyer." Coincidence? You really think so?

China War 200 Million Man Army

In summary, the prophecy says that an army of 200 million will trigger a war that will kill one-third of the world's population two billion people. Of all the prophecies, this one is by far the most ominous! No matter how we twist and turn its message, it still states that one-third of the world will be destroyed. But who will ignite this horrible prophesied holocaust? The Bible describes an army of 200 million. Has there ever been an army of 200million on the face of the earth? Most nations don't even have a
population of 200 million let alone an army!

The alarming news is that a nation has made the boast that it can field an army of 200 million. The late leader of China, Mao Tse Tung, bragged that he could field an army of 200 million soldiers. The 1999 Fact Book, put out by the CIA, stated that China had 198 million men of military age (15-49). That number went over the 200 million mark as of the year 2000.

A prophecy that could never before have been fulfilled can now come to pass at any time. Since the Saddam Hussein prophecy happened at the sounding of the 5th Trumpet and the China War will occur at the 6th Trumpet, it is obvious that this terrible event is the next major item on God's prophetic calendar. Knowing this, we realize how very dangerous the present conflict between China and the United States actually is!

World Army to Invade Israel

Zechariah 14:2 states that all nations will come against Jerusalem to battle at the time of Armageddon. Throughout the 2,000 years since this prophecy was given, people have wondered how all nations would be able to gather at Jerusalem. Only in recent times has it become apparent how this prophecy will be fulfilled. Beginning with the Gulf War in 1990-1991, the world's trouble spots have been dealt with by the forces of the World Community. When conflict arises somewhere on the globe, the United Nations passes a resolution to solve the problem. Any faction that does not bow the knee to the decisions of the World Community runs the risk of invasion by the International Forces. So we understand that every single nation on earth may not be present at Armageddon, but the forces of the World Community representing the United Nations will be there.
 
It's not necessary to convince me that you think you are living in the end times.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

That's not the point of the thread!

The point is that Christians have been expecting Christ to return for 2,000 years and he has failed to do so. Why were they wrong and you right? THAT is the point. You bring up prophecies, but I contend that Christians have believed that prophecies were being fulfilled throughout history. Therefore, your use of prophecies is no different than their's.
 
AFLAAAAAAAAK (that silly duck) Love, Love, Live, is the answer you seek, Love thy God,Love thy Neighbor,Live with Love, kinda simple. Love makes christains Live as the end is near. "Love" Skit ya sum

K'mere n let me sqze da toothpste outa ya!:)
 
A excellent separation fact.. But we are to Love 1st, No negative side to Love,So simple a child can do it! Yet imperfect in such a way that we had to be died for!!!Woot ty ty ty Jesus.
 
hehehe ya guess i would be a jealous too if i seen stupid ppl worshiping tard'd stuff like art and made up Idols after all thats b'n given n shown...But our connection with God is that of love(given freely) now if God wants to b jealous then who can argue.Excellent separation point to.
 
I think we want our Lord to come back so much because the struggles of this life will be over. It is hard living in these times, just as it was hard for those who came before us. I also think we loose focus on what our main goal should be (hint Mathew 28). We should be looking to further His kingdon, rather than on when He will come back.

We know that He will, at some appointed day and hour. But that time is for Him to know.


Gen
 
I can't really explain why I think we are living in the End Times. I just have a feeling that the Earth and its inhabitants are falling farther from God then ever before. Its like this little voice inside my head keeps telling me that it's almost over and that Jesus will be back soon. Now, don't think I'm crazy or anything, but this is just how I feel. I'll ask myself a question; Will I be mad if He doesn't show up before I die? No, because no matter what I'll see Him. But what gets me DV, is that you said He had failed to come a second time, as if He has tried but couldn't. Well it wasn't Jesus that failed coming it was the people who thought He was that failed. Jesus never has and never will fail at anything he does.
 
Genesis1315 said:
I think we want our Lord to come back so much because the struggles of this life will be over. It is hard living in these times, just as it was hard for those who came before us. I also think we loose focus on what our main goal should be (hint Mathew 28). We should be looking to further His kingdon, rather than on when He will come back.

We know that He will, at some appointed day and hour. But that time is for Him to know.


Gen

You nailed it.

Let me ask you Gen, do YOU believe that you are living in the "end times"?

Do you know a Christian that doesn't?
 
[toj.cc]phantom said:
I can't really explain why I think we are living in the End Times. I just have a feeling that the Earth and its inhabitants are falling farther from God then ever before. Its like this little voice inside my head keeps telling me that it's almost over and that Jesus will be back soon. Now, don't think I'm crazy or anything, but this is just how I feel. I'll ask myself a question; Will I be mad if He doesn't show up before I die? No, because no matter what I'll see Him.

Mad or not, you would have lived your life believing in something that was false. (That is, believing he would return in your lifetime)

But what gets me DV, is that you said He had failed to come a second time, as if He has tried but couldn't. Well it wasn't Jesus that failed coming it was the people who thought He was that failed. Jesus never has and never will fail at anything he does.

You're assuming I believe Jesus came the FIRST TIME.

My point is that generations of Christians have believed he would return in their lifetime. Not only were they wrong, but every consecutive generation feels the same thing.

Prove it yourself, find an older member of your congregation and ask them if they believe Christ will return in their lifetime.
 
I think what has happened is a slight distortion of the underlying meaning in the message of "coming soon". What that means is (in my opinion AND in the practical sense) PREPARE YOUR HEART for the coming as though it were to be in five minutes. that doesn't mean we EXPECT God to come in our lifetime; it just means we should be ready in ourselves for the Second Coming whenever it may be.

When this message has been transferred to the masses a zillion times, it becomes interpreted as "Jesus is coming THIS lifetime". We can't say that he ISN'T, but we can't say when he IS either.

...and so what if generations were wrong in expecting Jesus to come in their lifetime? Humans will be humans. Seriously, what is the consequence of being wrong in a dumb attempt to predict God in your opinion, DV? :D
 
Let me ask you Gen, do YOU believe that you are living in the "end times"?

Do you know a Christian that doesn't?

I want to believe that we are living in the end times. But I do not KNOW. There are a lot of signs that would point to it, but again, I do not know the hour or day. There are many that I know who believe we are in the end times, infact, I am not sure if there are any that don't think we are. But again, I find that if we focus on that, they we loose track of what we really should be doing here :)
 
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