LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
with all the debate and everything, would those who are not Christian or are non believers, really choose to believe in God even if all their questions could be anwsered?
Does it matter what is said here?
- Thread starter LionOfJudah
- Start date
Dark Virtue
New Member
Yes, I would choose to believe in God if all my questions were answered.
To do otherwise would be against everything I believe in, it would be hypocritical.
That said, it's only fair that I pose a similar question to you.
Would you be willing to stop believing in God if were not logical and reasonable to do so?
(BTW, the quote you attribute to Tony Robins originated with Albert Einstein)
To do otherwise would be against everything I believe in, it would be hypocritical.
That said, it's only fair that I pose a similar question to you.
Would you be willing to stop believing in God if were not logical and reasonable to do so?
(BTW, the quote you attribute to Tony Robins originated with Albert Einstein)
So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. Isaiah 55:11
I love this verse! As much as I love to babble on, this tells me that if I am speaking the Word of God, I am saying something important! It may not hit the target I am aiming for, but the arrow of Love will make an impact??? Therefore, it may not make a difference on every heart to believe, but it did on mine! For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
To be honest, I really do not like the debate itself and I do not want to train myself in that area! (mental note, nothing worse than an argumentative woman). It does call the Holy Spirit into action to think about the questions brought up and where the Word addresses said question! I do thrill when people such as yourself Lion, comment. When Godly men and women answer, those I feel I can trust, it causes me to grow in the LORD.
I love this verse! As much as I love to babble on, this tells me that if I am speaking the Word of God, I am saying something important! It may not hit the target I am aiming for, but the arrow of Love will make an impact??? Therefore, it may not make a difference on every heart to believe, but it did on mine! For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:12
To be honest, I really do not like the debate itself and I do not want to train myself in that area! (mental note, nothing worse than an argumentative woman). It does call the Holy Spirit into action to think about the questions brought up and where the Word addresses said question! I do thrill when people such as yourself Lion, comment. When Godly men and women answer, those I feel I can trust, it causes me to grow in the LORD.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Awww, Byblos
How is Byblos a modern day saint? No offense to Byblos, but as good as his intentions are, he believes in many things without reason. He has not done what God has commanded in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "Prove all things: hold fast that which is good." How does blind faith make one a saint?
How is Byblos a modern day saint? No offense to Byblos, but as good as his intentions are, he believes in many things without reason. He has not done what God has commanded in 1 Thessalonians 5:21, "Prove all things: hold fast that which is good." How does blind faith make one a saint?
Jim
New Member
To me, there would always be that nagging thing that would tell me to ask, ask, ask. If anything I found that didn't fit, I would have to search for an answer for it.
If all my questions regarding religion were answered, yes, I probably would believe in the presence of a deity. The question is: Would it be Christianity?
Edit: Who is Benny Hinn?
If all my questions regarding religion were answered, yes, I probably would believe in the presence of a deity. The question is: Would it be Christianity?
Edit: Who is Benny Hinn?
Dark Virtue
New Member
Jim, I think the more pointed question was, "Would you believe in the God of the Bible if all your questions were answered."
I don't think the majority of Christians actually understand WHY an atheist is an atheist. It has nothing to do with hatred of religions. It has to do with a LACK OF EVIDENCE to believe in a deity. Were there actual evidence, were questions truly answered, there would be no atheists. There would be believers and heretics.
I don't think the majority of Christians actually understand WHY an atheist is an atheist. It has nothing to do with hatred of religions. It has to do with a LACK OF EVIDENCE to believe in a deity. Were there actual evidence, were questions truly answered, there would be no atheists. There would be believers and heretics.
Jim
New Member
If all my questions were answered, then in all probability I would most likely believe in the God of the Bible.
However, it seems a great deal of the Christians who argued before now don't do it anymore. It's a shame, cos they tended to create food for thought. Now, very little activity happens here.
However, it seems a great deal of the Christians who argued before now don't do it anymore. It's a shame, cos they tended to create food for thought. Now, very little activity happens here.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Sorry, double post.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Who is Benny Hinn?
www.bennyhinn.org/
He's a televangelist and a scheister.
Hinn teaches that when one is born again by faith in Jesus, he is given a new spirit man that wasn't there before -- a spirit man that is divine in nature and God-like.
Hinn said, ""He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (TBN, 12/1/90)." In other words, Jesus had to BECOME sin and suffer at Satan's hands in Hell.
One of the characteristics of Hinn's services has been his claim to impart the Holy Spirit at will by blowing on people. He has been known to wave his coat in the air, or to toss the Holy Spirit like a baseball at the audience, causing entire sections to ostensibly swoon under the power of God. Obviously God is at Hinn's disposal. And he doesn't mind being made a spectacle in the process.
An elderly Hinn follower was turned away from one entrance to ARGO Stadium in Sacramento, CA because she had not given enough money to enter there. Later, on the stage she was "slain in the Spirit," and while she was lying on the floor a huge man, likewise "slain," landed on top of her, breaking her leg. In 1993 in Basel, Switzerland, Hinn prophesied over a man with cancer that he had many years to live. He died two days later. In Nairobi, Kenya early in May 2000, four patients released from a hospital to attend Hinn's "Miracle Crusade" died while waiting for prayer. (Source: 9/00, TBC.)
In 1989, Hinn was a participant in the move to grant to Pope John Paul II the "Prince of Peace" award, instigated by Harold Bradesen. Receiving much flack for his part in that award, Hinn recanted and withdrew his participation.
In an interview with Paul Crouch, Hinn said, "Benny Hinn: I'm telling you. People will be -- people -- I'm telling you, I feel the anointing talking here. People are going to be canceling funeral services and bringing their dead in their caskets, placing them -- my God! I feel the anointing here -- placing them before a television set, waiting for God's power to come through and touch them. And it's going to happen time and time -- so much it's going to spread. You're going to hear it from Kenya to Mexico to Europe to South America, where people will be raised from the -- so much so that the Word will spread that if some dead person be put in front of this TV screen, they will be raised from the dead and they will be by the thousands. You wait. Now the Lord just told me -- and I don't know whether this is true or not -- as I'm saying this, the Lord said He gave you that word many, many years ago....I see quite something amazing. I see rows of caskets lining up in front of this TV set and I see them bringing them closer to the TV set and as people are coming closer I see actually loved ones picking up the hands of the dead and letting them touch the screen and people are getting raised as their hands are touching that screen. With this program -- I'm not talking about my program -- I'm talking programs, plain programs aired -- the glory of God will be so on TBN that there's going to be divine resurrection happening as people bring their loved ones to the TV set."
At one time Hinn claimed there were NINE persons that made up the Trinity. He later claimed it was a "joke". He also claimed that humans were created to swim like fish and fly like birds, and with only a thought, could move from planet to planet. He said that the word translated to "have dominion" in the creation story means that Adam and Eve could do everything that the creatures over which they had dominion could do (Christianity in Crisis, p. 119). So presumably, they could also lay eggs like hens and swarm like bees.
Hinn actually said, "I’m gonna show you the power of God on young people, I know you may have seen this before, maybe you havn’t - if you have, you’ll get blessed all over again. I’m in Pheonix Arizona this Thursday and Friday. What you’re about to see is gonna happen there, so you in Pheonix make sure you show up for that crusade. Now, what you’re gonna see happens usually at the last night at the end of the service for the young people. It’s gonna be a powerful crusade, great, great things. Let me tell you something. The Holy Spirit has spoken, He told me He is about to show up. Oh, I gotta tell you this just before we go. I had a word of prophecy from Ruth Heflin, you know who Ruth Heflin is? Ruth prophesied over me back in the seventies. Everything she said has happened. She just sent me a word through my wife and said: The Lord spoke to her audibly and said, That He is going to appear physically in one of our crusades in the next few months. Yeah, She... I’m telling ya,.. she said, the Lord spoke to her audibly and said, tell Benny I’m going to appear physically on the platform in his meetings. Lord, do it in Phenox Arizona in the name of Jesus! And in Kenya too, Lord, please, Lord, in fact, do it in every crusade. In Jesus’ name." [Benny Hinn with Steve Brock "This is Your Day" - Television broadcast 03-29-00 From 700 Club Studios, Virginia Beach, Va ]"
TV mega-preacher, Benny Hinn, used a false prophecy to extort millions of dollars from unsuspecting victims. He warned TBN's TV audience that 1999 was going to be a year of plenty and the year 2000 would bring disaster. He threatened the viewers that those who didn't double their giving in 1999 would not survive the year 2000. Even the donors who had already called in their pledges were ordered to call back and increase their giving or face the consequences. This alone certifies Benny Hinn as a false prophet.
Hinn has also said: * "The Lord also tells me to tell you in mid 90's -- about '94 or '95, no later than that -- God will destroy the homosexual community of America . . . He will destroy it with fire." * "The Spirit of God tells me -- an earthquake will hit the east coast of America and destroy much in the 90's." * "The Spirit tells me -- Fidel Castro will die in the 90's. . . Holy Spirit just said to me, it'll be worse than any death you can imagine." After 20 minutes of prophesying to his congregation that night, Hinn appeared to be "drunk in the spirit." When he came to his senses he said, "I'd like to know what I said. I was totally gone."
There is much, much, MUCH MUCH more, but you can look them up yourself, just do a search on Google. That's where I got the above info.
www.bennyhinn.org/
He's a televangelist and a scheister.
Hinn teaches that when one is born again by faith in Jesus, he is given a new spirit man that wasn't there before -- a spirit man that is divine in nature and God-like.
Hinn said, ""He [Jesus] who is righteous by choice said, 'The only way I can stop sin is by Me becoming it. I can't just stop it by letting it touch Me; I and it must become one.' Hear this! He who is the nature of God became the nature of Satan where He became sin!" (TBN, 12/1/90)." In other words, Jesus had to BECOME sin and suffer at Satan's hands in Hell.
One of the characteristics of Hinn's services has been his claim to impart the Holy Spirit at will by blowing on people. He has been known to wave his coat in the air, or to toss the Holy Spirit like a baseball at the audience, causing entire sections to ostensibly swoon under the power of God. Obviously God is at Hinn's disposal. And he doesn't mind being made a spectacle in the process.
An elderly Hinn follower was turned away from one entrance to ARGO Stadium in Sacramento, CA because she had not given enough money to enter there. Later, on the stage she was "slain in the Spirit," and while she was lying on the floor a huge man, likewise "slain," landed on top of her, breaking her leg. In 1993 in Basel, Switzerland, Hinn prophesied over a man with cancer that he had many years to live. He died two days later. In Nairobi, Kenya early in May 2000, four patients released from a hospital to attend Hinn's "Miracle Crusade" died while waiting for prayer. (Source: 9/00, TBC.)
In 1989, Hinn was a participant in the move to grant to Pope John Paul II the "Prince of Peace" award, instigated by Harold Bradesen. Receiving much flack for his part in that award, Hinn recanted and withdrew his participation.
In an interview with Paul Crouch, Hinn said, "Benny Hinn: I'm telling you. People will be -- people -- I'm telling you, I feel the anointing talking here. People are going to be canceling funeral services and bringing their dead in their caskets, placing them -- my God! I feel the anointing here -- placing them before a television set, waiting for God's power to come through and touch them. And it's going to happen time and time -- so much it's going to spread. You're going to hear it from Kenya to Mexico to Europe to South America, where people will be raised from the -- so much so that the Word will spread that if some dead person be put in front of this TV screen, they will be raised from the dead and they will be by the thousands. You wait. Now the Lord just told me -- and I don't know whether this is true or not -- as I'm saying this, the Lord said He gave you that word many, many years ago....I see quite something amazing. I see rows of caskets lining up in front of this TV set and I see them bringing them closer to the TV set and as people are coming closer I see actually loved ones picking up the hands of the dead and letting them touch the screen and people are getting raised as their hands are touching that screen. With this program -- I'm not talking about my program -- I'm talking programs, plain programs aired -- the glory of God will be so on TBN that there's going to be divine resurrection happening as people bring their loved ones to the TV set."
At one time Hinn claimed there were NINE persons that made up the Trinity. He later claimed it was a "joke". He also claimed that humans were created to swim like fish and fly like birds, and with only a thought, could move from planet to planet. He said that the word translated to "have dominion" in the creation story means that Adam and Eve could do everything that the creatures over which they had dominion could do (Christianity in Crisis, p. 119). So presumably, they could also lay eggs like hens and swarm like bees.
Hinn actually said, "I’m gonna show you the power of God on young people, I know you may have seen this before, maybe you havn’t - if you have, you’ll get blessed all over again. I’m in Pheonix Arizona this Thursday and Friday. What you’re about to see is gonna happen there, so you in Pheonix make sure you show up for that crusade. Now, what you’re gonna see happens usually at the last night at the end of the service for the young people. It’s gonna be a powerful crusade, great, great things. Let me tell you something. The Holy Spirit has spoken, He told me He is about to show up. Oh, I gotta tell you this just before we go. I had a word of prophecy from Ruth Heflin, you know who Ruth Heflin is? Ruth prophesied over me back in the seventies. Everything she said has happened. She just sent me a word through my wife and said: The Lord spoke to her audibly and said, That He is going to appear physically in one of our crusades in the next few months. Yeah, She... I’m telling ya,.. she said, the Lord spoke to her audibly and said, tell Benny I’m going to appear physically on the platform in his meetings. Lord, do it in Phenox Arizona in the name of Jesus! And in Kenya too, Lord, please, Lord, in fact, do it in every crusade. In Jesus’ name." [Benny Hinn with Steve Brock "This is Your Day" - Television broadcast 03-29-00 From 700 Club Studios, Virginia Beach, Va ]"
TV mega-preacher, Benny Hinn, used a false prophecy to extort millions of dollars from unsuspecting victims. He warned TBN's TV audience that 1999 was going to be a year of plenty and the year 2000 would bring disaster. He threatened the viewers that those who didn't double their giving in 1999 would not survive the year 2000. Even the donors who had already called in their pledges were ordered to call back and increase their giving or face the consequences. This alone certifies Benny Hinn as a false prophet.
Hinn has also said: * "The Lord also tells me to tell you in mid 90's -- about '94 or '95, no later than that -- God will destroy the homosexual community of America . . . He will destroy it with fire." * "The Spirit of God tells me -- an earthquake will hit the east coast of America and destroy much in the 90's." * "The Spirit tells me -- Fidel Castro will die in the 90's. . . Holy Spirit just said to me, it'll be worse than any death you can imagine." After 20 minutes of prophesying to his congregation that night, Hinn appeared to be "drunk in the spirit." When he came to his senses he said, "I'd like to know what I said. I was totally gone."
There is much, much, MUCH MUCH more, but you can look them up yourself, just do a search on Google. That's where I got the above info.
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
no i see too much in this world that i doubt i could truely manage myself with out God, i wont lie. He is as much a part of me as my mother or dad is.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Then you are unwilling to do what you ask others to do.
A bit unfair isn't it?
You ask others to leave behind evidence and reason to blindly accept that which is unproveable. At the same time you cling to the unproveable with unshakeable might even in the face of evidence and reason.
How do you expect me to respect your viewpoint if you won't mine?
A bit unfair isn't it?
You ask others to leave behind evidence and reason to blindly accept that which is unproveable. At the same time you cling to the unproveable with unshakeable might even in the face of evidence and reason.
How do you expect me to respect your viewpoint if you won't mine?
It matters, but only if you let it matter. The problem with so many of our debates is that there is almost always rigidity on both sides of the issue being discussed. People go into arguements with no intention of chaning his or her view, or even their stance. This, of course, is a big problem, but not one that is impossible to deal with.
Dark Virtue
New Member
Really? I have always asserted that I have no problem being proven wrong.
I am open to the possibility that my reasoning is incorrect.
That's the whole point in being a Freethinker!
However, as LoJ has shown, the other side is not willing to offer the same.
So how, Mr. Bill, do you suggest we deal with this problem?
I am open to the possibility that my reasoning is incorrect.
That's the whole point in being a Freethinker!
However, as LoJ has shown, the other side is not willing to offer the same.
So how, Mr. Bill, do you suggest we deal with this problem?
Well there are still crazy people on the freethinker side too..it wouldn't be fair to use a blanket statement.
As for what should be done...there's not much we can do. The main problem is that many people visiting the forum are not very open to new ideas or ways of thinking. However..I think the other part of the problem has to do with the freethinker side. See, while this is a Christian forum, the religious discussion forum is dominated by atheistic thinking. You in particular DV, you post a whooole lot. And your posts are often very long, and very well written. In short, I think people are afraid to argue against you. The same can probably be said for the likes of Jim and I, but to a lesser extent. Is this our fault? No..there's nothing wrong with that. But I think this may be going on in at least some peoples' heads..so it's there. What to do about that? Beats me... I mean, there's always moving to a different religious forum, but we've kinda settled in here, and such.. Anyways, I'm rambling.
As for what should be done...there's not much we can do. The main problem is that many people visiting the forum are not very open to new ideas or ways of thinking. However..I think the other part of the problem has to do with the freethinker side. See, while this is a Christian forum, the religious discussion forum is dominated by atheistic thinking. You in particular DV, you post a whooole lot. And your posts are often very long, and very well written. In short, I think people are afraid to argue against you. The same can probably be said for the likes of Jim and I, but to a lesser extent. Is this our fault? No..there's nothing wrong with that. But I think this may be going on in at least some peoples' heads..so it's there. What to do about that? Beats me... I mean, there's always moving to a different religious forum, but we've kinda settled in here, and such.. Anyways, I'm rambling.
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
the same science you look at to disprove God, i see as proving Him. the same logical out pourings you claim to use i claim to use also, just i come to a different conclusion. if someone could prove beyond a doubt like is stated for God, then i might recant, but neither can be done.