Denominations

Nazgul

Nazgul

New Member
Hello all!

There is currently a HUGE DIVIDE in my family and I dont know what to do. The problem is denominations. My family and I are curently non denominational because(ironicly) I beleive that denominations split up the christian community. My aunt and a number of cousins are Catholic, and at my grandma's funeral I heard my Aunt say that she hoped my grandma was in heaven. This confuses me cause she is the one that helped to make sure I was with God, and I know that she was borned again. I looked in to Catholicism and there seems to be a need for a last confession to enter Heaven. Are there any Catholics here that can help me clear this up.

So this made me think about other denominations. So does any one know about other denomination specific docterns.

Also if there are others then how can we all be christians if we do not beleive the same thing? How are these diffrences justified biblicaly?
 
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I read somewhere that there are around 20,000 variations of Christianity. They are mostly separated by a few variances in creed.

In your example, Catholics may believe that you need a final confession and last rites. Many other denominations do not believe anything like that.

There are classically a few sticking points that the Bible remains silent on, and so we read the entire Bible and try to understand what may be inferred.

-Suicide
-Deathbed conversions
-Baptism
-Faith alone, or are deeds required?
-Purgatory (another Catholic teaching)
-Abortion
-Do babies go to Heaven, even though they have not confessed Jesus as their Lord?
-What about the mentally retarded?
-Does cremation condemn you to Hell?
-Is the 7-day Creation a literal or figurative event?
-Is the Flood (Noah's Ark) a literal or figurative event?
-Why do bad things happen to good people?

These are just the first few things that popped in my head that people ask about. And the down-and-dirty of it is that there is no "clear" answer. Jesus never said cremation condemns you to Hell, yet the Methodists generally say it does.

And then you toss into the picture places where there are difficult topics... like Faith v Works. Jesus tells Nicodemus that you have to be born again (which is a faith event) to see the Kingdom of Heaven. Yet James and Paul both teach that Works (through living our faith, doing God's work) is a requirement of all believers. James specifically says that, "faith without works is death." (James 2:18 and 3:13)

So which is correct? Both. While seemingly a contradiction at first glance, you have to look at what they are saying. Jesus says that to get into Heaven, you only have to have accept His sacrifice. However, James (et al) say that once you are a believer, you need to step it up and do your parts to help others find Christ. If you live like the non-believer, why would they bother to seek our God? They already live like we do, in that case.

Did denominations "split up" Christians? Yes and no. Yes because there are different things that we all believe about God. If we believe different things, clearly we do not believe the same things and we are divided. However, it also does not separate Christians because I know I still can have common fellowship with a Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, CoC, etc etc..and that we are worshiping the same God. We just have agreed that there are some points that we're not 100% certain about. I have my opinion, they have theirs... one of us is clearly mistaken or misguided, but instead of looking around and fighting with one another, we're both looking up to God.
 
Nazgul said:
Also if there are others then how can we all be christians if we do not beleive the same thing?
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Depends. Many times the disagreements are on minor things. One believes in a rapture another does not. It doesn't impact the Gospel. However, when certain groups claim that Christ was merely a prophet or was not God then we get into a division that is major.

So more often than not the doctrinal difference is minor and while the two groups would not claim the other is destined for hell they prefer to worship with like-minded believers.

Nazgul said:
How are these diffrences justified biblicaly?
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Minor differences often arise when the Bible is silent or difficult to interpret. Major differences often either interpret the Bible incorrectly on areas where the Bible is clear or they don't bother to use the Bible to justify it at all.

There is a lot of good information on Roman-Catholicism at this website (along with many other groups): http://www.carm.org/roman-catholicism
 
www.carm.com said:
We do this by analyzing religions such as Islam, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Roman Catholicism, Universalism, Wicca, etc.,
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I'm seriously getting tired of your anti-Catholic posts and links. The fact that this website lumps Catholicism in with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Wicca is completely unacceptable.
 
I have to agree with phantom. I would not group Catholicism with those other non-Christian religions.

I disagree with much the Catholic church teaches - but they do hold to Christ - the Bible - and the need for salvation. They just practice it differently than I prefer. That is why I am not in that denomination of the Christian faith.
 
I would have to agree with the link. I spent 3 years in Italy as a missionary and had first hand dealings with Roman Catholics day in and day out. The link to CARM is a very good one with biblical support and much research. The whole site is excellent and I do agree with their assessment of Catholics.
CARM's position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture.......Finally, I believe that there are truly regenerate Christians in the Roman Catholic church. But, they are truly Christians in spite of official RCC theology
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Unfortunately this is fully evidenced if you spend any time in the heart of the RCC. Just because the American version looks different, it still holds to the doctrines coming out of Rome.

Catholics need to be evangelized in my humble opinion.
 
Don't Catholics belive the pope to be God?...thought I read that some place.

Jesus is only mediator between Us and God...so I don't know why we would requirer a preist to forgive us?

Just some thoughts.
 
ewoksrule said:
I would have to agree with the link. I spent 3 years in Italy as a missionary and had first hand dealings with Roman Catholics day in and day out. The link to CARM is a very good one with biblical support and much research. The whole site is excellent and I do agree with their assessment of Catholics.

Unfortunately this is fully evidenced if you spend any time in the heart of the RCC. Just because the American version looks different, it still holds to the doctrines coming out of Rome.

Catholics need to be evangelized in my humble opinion.
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If thats the way you, and everyone feels, then perhaps I should step down from my ToJ position and leave the group all together.
 
The Roman Catholic Church is a sticky point. Your argument that you follow Jesus, and that's enough would also apply to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. They follow Jesus, albeit a skewed interpretation.

The early protestant churches, on the whole, argued that the RCC does not follow scripture. Why else would there be a Protestant movement?

As for your resignation, I feel that's a bit harsh. I believe that I'm a sinner, saved by grace. You believe that you're a sinner, saved by grace. There's a strong possibility that you and I both believe things that aren't true, because the Bible is vague or silent. But our common ground of being sinners, saved by grace...is enough for me.

While I'm not anti-Catholic, I don't follow their practices because I believe they could be misguided. Same for Lutheran, Methodists, 7th Day Advent, and so on. It just means I don't subscribe to all of their side-line beliefs. They're still my brothers and sisters in Christ. I feel the same about you.

And lastly, while I try to avoid linking to anti-Catholic websites or resources, I have read a number of writings of former Catholics that believe that they are not, and should not be, lumped in with Protestant Christians. To be honest, they have been very well-written articles, and are very convincing. But in the end, it's about what you're convicted to believe. If you follow Christ and say you're Catholic... follow Christ and say that you're purple with pink polka dots and orange stripes. It makes no difference to me.
 
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[toj.cc]phantom;374052 said:
The fact that this website lumps Catholicism in with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Wicca is completely unacceptable.
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Catholicism does some things very well and with far more reverence that protestants. That being said, I feel some of their teachings are unfounded in Scripture. I do not harbor anti-Catholic sentiments and believe that many within the RCC are truly saved. I merely yearn for them to know the full truth of what the Bible says.
 
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Phantom

It appears that you are the only Catholic christian responding to my post. I need to know how you explain Catholic docterns and traditions. Is it just a certin group of Cathlics that believe you need a last confession to be saved?

Im just trying to figure this all out because this issuse has caused a huge impact on my family(and on here aperently)

So I would invite you to share why you follow Cathicism. This way both sides of this picture can be told.
 
Nazgul said:
Phantom

It appears that you are the only Catholic christian responding to my post. I need to know how you explain Catholic docterns and traditions. Is it just a certin group of Cathlics that believe you need a last confession to be saved?

Im just trying to figure this all out because this issuse has caused a huge impact on my family(and on here aperently)

So I would invite you to share why you follow Cathicism. This way both sides of this picture can be told.
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I've never heard of anyone needing a "last confession" to be saved. Give me until later tonight, and I'll let you know what I find.
 
After doing some asking around, I can't find anyone that knows anything about a "last confession". Even my priest didn't have an idea, he seemed to think that you were talking about Last Rites though. The Last Rites is simply a final prayer and ministrations given to Christians before death. Its merely a way to comfort the dying and allow them to take the Eucharist. In no way does not getting Last Rites affect you getting into heaven.

And I'm not sure what some people are talking about Catholics not being saved. Every Catholic and Protestant church I've been too (and its a lot) have always taught that the only way into Heaven is through Jesus Christ, I've never been taught any different, and anyone who believes in a different way to get there will be sorely disappointed when they find themselves in Hell.
 
Here is an article on the "last rites" from the Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04660c.htm

What stood out to me was the statement.
Extreme unction, like other sacraments, produces sanctifying grace in the soul.
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@Phantom - I mean no disrespect to you brother, and it is not my place to judge you, nor the condition of your soul. I am sorry if my words offend you, I did not mean to single anyone out but just speak to the general condition of the RCC.
 
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JAMES 5:14-15 (KJV) Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 
After talking to my family it seems that my Aunt thinks my Grandma is in purgetory because she did not go to confessions or mass. She was disapointed that she never had her last rights.

Thank you Phantom for replying so fast.

So from what I read purgetory is where you go if you are saved but still have sins that you have not asked forgivness for right. How is this explained in the Bible?

Has anyone here seen religious by Bill Maher. There was a part were he went to rome and a Catholic preist said that a couple years back there was a poll about who the people in rome prayed to forst for help...Jesus was number six on the list and Mary was first. I say this because I would like to know why Mary is considered(in Rome) more helpful in Jesus.

About puting Catholicism with JW, and Mormons is wrong. As far as I can tell Catholics believe Jesus to be the son of God and that He is God. However JW and Mormons believe that Jesus was a son of God but not God, or Jesus and Satan were brothers.
Muslims also believe In a Jesus but that he was a prophet and will come back with Muhammed and wage war with non believers.
 
But that doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.

Philippians 1:18
 
Nazgul said:
After talking to my family it seems that my Aunt thinks my Grandma is in purgetory because she did not go to confessions or mass. She was disapointed that she never had her last rights.

Thank you Phantom for replying so fast.

So from what I read purgetory is where you go if you are saved but still have sins that you have not asked forgivness for right. How is this explained in the Bible?

Has anyone here seen religious by Bill Maher. There was a part were he went to rome and a Catholic preist said that a couple years back there was a poll about who the people in rome prayed to forst for help...Jesus was number six on the list and Mary was first. I say this because I would like to know why Mary is considered(in Rome) more helpful in Jesus.

About puting Catholicism with JW, and Mormons is wrong. As far as I can tell Catholics believe Jesus to be the son of God and that He is God. However JW and Mormons believe that Jesus was a son of God but not God, or Jesus and Satan were brothers.
Muslims also believe In a Jesus but that he was a prophet and will come back with Muhammed and wage war with non believers.
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I have never, and I can't think of any one who has, prayed and asked Mary for help. He may ask her to intercede on our behalf, just like she did at the wedding were Jesus turned water to wine. But I know Jesus is the only one who can do anything, and Mary herself has no power.
 
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