I've been tossed into a social sciences class where it looks like religion is going to be brought up a lot. A topic was mentioned today about certain eastern stories (Hindu, I think) that pre-date stories in the old testament. Some of the stories are about miracles or divine intervention, such as a global flood. Some people say, "These stories were written before your bible. Ha! The bible is nothing but a re-writing of these!" I've never done much research in this area, or really know the origins of these eastern stories. Can anybody help?
Defending the Faith: Old Eastern Stories
- Thread starter tjguitarz
- Start date
CGamer
Gnome Priest
Most cultures have various flood accounts which have different takes on the flood as the sons of Noah spread out after the flood, Shem, Ham, and Japheth no doubtingly told their children of the flood and so forth and so on. As the story was told and retold through the generations "false religions" have transformed it to suit there purposes it became twisted into the different untruths such as the following.
One thing to consider is that at the time Moses wrote Genesis about 2000 years had passed from the time of the flood until Moses wrote as God spoke to him, that being said there are many cultures older then the Hebrews. Ex..Abraham was called out of a pagan land Uz to begin the nation of Israel. In essence the stories of other nations "flood accounts" were written before the biblical account but they were and are perverted in there telling.
One of the most famous is Utnapishti the Babylonian version of "Noah" in which he constructed a boat 180feet by 180feet long and 180 feet wide, basically a cube and not a very safe ship design.
The true version found in Genesis varies greatly from the Babylonian account as we see God's righteous judgment of man and God instructing Noah in the building of the ark.
The dimensions for Noah's ark were 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, 45 feet high and could hold approximately 43,000 tons. The scale ratio found in Noah's ark are still used in modern ship building.
There is also a Babylonian version of the Ten Commandments however they are much much different then what Moses penned.
One thing to consider is that at the time Moses wrote Genesis about 2000 years had passed from the time of the flood until Moses wrote as God spoke to him, that being said there are many cultures older then the Hebrews. Ex..Abraham was called out of a pagan land Uz to begin the nation of Israel. In essence the stories of other nations "flood accounts" were written before the biblical account but they were and are perverted in there telling.
One of the most famous is Utnapishti the Babylonian version of "Noah" in which he constructed a boat 180feet by 180feet long and 180 feet wide, basically a cube and not a very safe ship design.
The true version found in Genesis varies greatly from the Babylonian account as we see God's righteous judgment of man and God instructing Noah in the building of the ark.
The dimensions for Noah's ark were 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, 45 feet high and could hold approximately 43,000 tons. The scale ratio found in Noah's ark are still used in modern ship building.
There is also a Babylonian version of the Ten Commandments however they are much much different then what Moses penned.
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Prevenience is not authenticity.
If we believe a thing is correct only because it came first, then what keeps us from believing that it's turtles all the way down?
If we believe a thing is correct only because it came first, then what keeps us from believing that it's turtles all the way down?
Durruck
Pirate!
I know Dr. Dino is a nut and he has his problems, but I did watch his videos and found some interesting things listed (that were not contradicted by any of the people tearing down his arguments)
I don't recall the exact number, but he said that ~130 different variants of the Flood story have been found; basically the story exists in every culture. Even if the numbers in a particular story are wrong (re: box-shape), the notion that it happened is still pretty strong, even among non-Christians.
I don't recall the exact number, but he said that ~130 different variants of the Flood story have been found; basically the story exists in every culture. Even if the numbers in a particular story are wrong (re: box-shape), the notion that it happened is still pretty strong, even among non-Christians.
I love the saying, but I have no idea what you're trying to imply.
|CoR|Braveheart
New Member
My big brother is doing college right now and he keeps getting teachers that tell the class they're opinion about the topic...and all i can say is this is wrong, the bible was first.
o rly? then why does Jesus fufill 48 prophecies several hundred years before he was born? to me Jesus story > silly-ness
While I am not one to shy away from a good debate, I do think we often need to shy away from people attempting to draw us into a fight.
I will only discuss with someone who is interested in a true dialogue.
If someone wants to argue facts, I am not so interested. For those people I say one thing- Show me your knowlege and I will so you my changed life. Then you can try to explain away the change inside of me.
I will only discuss with someone who is interested in a true dialogue.
If someone wants to argue facts, I am not so interested. For those people I say one thing- Show me your knowlege and I will so you my changed life. Then you can try to explain away the change inside of me.
yeah no kidding. ive stopped debating people and have really tried to live out my walk more than i use to. some people do have misconceptions they mention and will correct them on stuff but other than that i try not to be a walking encyclopedia wanting to argue ya know? it just isnt effecient
Durruck
Pirate!
Can we really know that? There seems to be information from the pagan religions that existed before the Bible was written. Moses lived 120 years, yet things he writes about far pre-date his time. Yes, I understand that he was divinely inspired. But that doesn't mean it was the first time anything had been written down about anything.
The heathens and pagans could have written first... but it does not mean that they are right, nor does it mean that they were created first.
Cloud G
New Member
This is a very good point. It doesn't matter what you know, or that you can argue, or debate, or even prove the existence of God through science and what not.....
If someone sees you, and doesn't see God (ie:sees you lying, cheating, being hateful.....) then what comes first, what's true, anything you say......means nothing.
moxie
New Member
While I totally understand the desire to want to refute what these teachers/professors are saying, at the same time I'd advise caution before trying to debate what they are saying in a classroom. While the Bible is the ultimate authority, it also requires a deep understanding of both the content as well as biblical/ancient history to really be able to debate its contents with non-believers, and especially those who have a background in ancient history/sociology. As Christians, our faith is extremely important, however non-believers look at hard facts and evidence. That jump from faith to facts-only can be a hard jump to make.
IMHO, a lot of damage has been done to the Christian cause by unprepared Christians trying to debate/confront non-believers without truly being ready. Satan is fully armed and ready to go, and he likes to try to bait Christians into loaded arguments. We need to be fully prepared (knowing the Word, understanding the history around it) before debating with non-believers. Discernment is also necessary... we need to be led by the Spirit regarding timing and what specific people to confront/debate against. Satan loves nothing more than a Christian getting pwned, because he knows HE will be pwned in the end.
I know that in my college days, I had several professors that also would spout their opinions about Christianity and the Bible. Some professors I knew in my gut that I could not/was not meant to confront them, however I was able to discuss some of the subject matter with my classmates and make a much better impression with them on a personal level. Conversely, one professor I DID feel led to debate with, and while I received a slightly lower letter grade than normal, he also conceded that I made an extremely good case on the topic at hand. Did I change his mind? Probably not, but I hope that a seed was planted with him.
In the end, we are to be "wise as serpents, gentle as doves". The wisdom is knowing what and when to say (or NOT say) something, and the gentleness is knowing HOW to say it when we do.
ETA: And I FULLY agree with the folks that say that you need to live it as well... all the Christian/Biblical knowledge in the world without a personal walk with Christ will fall flat every time.
IMHO, a lot of damage has been done to the Christian cause by unprepared Christians trying to debate/confront non-believers without truly being ready. Satan is fully armed and ready to go, and he likes to try to bait Christians into loaded arguments. We need to be fully prepared (knowing the Word, understanding the history around it) before debating with non-believers. Discernment is also necessary... we need to be led by the Spirit regarding timing and what specific people to confront/debate against. Satan loves nothing more than a Christian getting pwned, because he knows HE will be pwned in the end.
I know that in my college days, I had several professors that also would spout their opinions about Christianity and the Bible. Some professors I knew in my gut that I could not/was not meant to confront them, however I was able to discuss some of the subject matter with my classmates and make a much better impression with them on a personal level. Conversely, one professor I DID feel led to debate with, and while I received a slightly lower letter grade than normal, he also conceded that I made an extremely good case on the topic at hand. Did I change his mind? Probably not, but I hope that a seed was planted with him.
In the end, we are to be "wise as serpents, gentle as doves". The wisdom is knowing what and when to say (or NOT say) something, and the gentleness is knowing HOW to say it when we do.
ETA: And I FULLY agree with the folks that say that you need to live it as well... all the Christian/Biblical knowledge in the world without a personal walk with Christ will fall flat every time.
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MaidMirawyn
New Member
My advice... if any classmates express sincere interest, talk with them outside of class. And if you catch anyone in factual errors or blatant misrepresentations, politely and professionally correct them.
Unless the professor sincerely WANTS debate, that is. I had one philosophy professor who encouraged us to think and debate. To this day, I don't know what HIS position on most of the issues was, because he worked hard to present all sides. And in that class, I was often the only Christian who wasn't afraid to speak up or (politely) present unpopular positions.
Unless the professor sincerely WANTS debate, that is. I had one philosophy professor who encouraged us to think and debate. To this day, I don't know what HIS position on most of the issues was, because he worked hard to present all sides. And in that class, I was often the only Christian who wasn't afraid to speak up or (politely) present unpopular positions.