Creationism: Right or Wrong?

[Drelin]

Quote[/b] ]When it comes to my spirituality and the salvation of my soul, I would rather be something that cannot and has not been proven faulty.

Cory

So you'd sign up for the Invisible Pink Unicorn, yes? Seriously, it's not a good argument to take; most supernatural claims, by their very nature, are impossible to disprove - the most one can usually do is discredit. You are always able to say 'Yes, the evidence points to x but it's possible that someone invisible and all-powerful did y and made it look like x just to confuse us.'

More on topic, I'm familiar with some of the many groups claiming to have disproved the theory of evolution. Sometimes I doubt whether Hovin et al actually understand what evolution is in the first place, which would explain the poor quality of 'disproof'. Most of their stuff I've encountered is tied up with those misunderstandings, some logical fallacy (red herrings and ad hom featuring prominently) or just plain bad science.

And hey, even if they did manage to somehow disprove evolution, Creationism / Intelligent Design wouldn't automatically be proven. They'd need to put foward the evidence for ID - which is rather lacking at the moment; I haven't seen the YEC folks putting foward serious scientific ideas about origins / anthropology / <insert relevant discipline here>.

 

[Jim]

Regarding creation, there are many points both for and against, mainly from archeology. A great deal of fossils supposed to be human have been widely disputed to be ape or chimpanzee. It is not simply a matter of looking at bones and deciding that they prove something one way or another.

Edit: Found this pretty ridiculus theory:

Quote[/b] ] The population of the world, based upon the Berlin census reports of 1922, was found to be 1,804,187,000. The human race must double itself 30.75 times to make this number. This result may be approximately ascertained by the following computations:

At the beginning of the first period of doubling there would just be two human beings; the second, 4; the third, 8; the fourth, 16; the tenth, 1024; the twentieth 1,048,576, the thirtieth, 1,073,741,824; and the thirty-first, 2,147,483,648. In other words, if we raise two to the thirtieth power, we have 1,073,741,824; or to the thirty-first power, 2,147,483,648 Therefore, it is evident even to the school boy, that, to have the present population of the globe, the net population must be doubled more than thirty times and less than thirty-one times. By logarithms, we find it to be 30.75 times. After all allowances are made for natural deaths, wars, catastrophes, and losses of all kinds, if the human race would double its numbers 30.75 times, we would have the present population of the globe.

Now, according to the chronology of Hales, based on the Septuagint text, 5077 years have elapsed since the flood, and 5177 years since the ancestors of mankind numbered only two, Noah and his wife. By dividing 5177 by 30.75, we find it requires an average of 168.3 years for the human race to double its numbers, in order to make the present population. This is a reasonable average length of time.

this is pretty stupid. According to this thoery, the earliest traces of Man would be found to be not much older than 5177 years old, and would have been found round about the Middle East. Already, we have found bones and more that are more than several million years old in various places. How can Creation come one up over this?


And as for the Bible- whether we should take it literally or not, I do find that it is strange that some parts are taken as narrative, not to be taken literally (Adam and Eve) while other parts can.



My brain hurts

 

[Arkanjel]

Proof of creation.....thats simple really
What Id like to see is proof of the other.
Just some quick FACTS to mull over.

Human Artifacts throughout the Geologic Column...Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock – point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past. Proof that humans co-existed with dinosaurs abounds, yet most examples are shunned as to further the myth of evolution. Why are such things shunned by the scientific world? You cant get grant money if you subscribe to those "silly" christians.

Radio Halos...Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form. Proof of an instantaneous creation of Earth's shell.

Design in the Human Brain...The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe. It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells. This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans - all without knowing they are doing so. Its a shame more people dont use this awesome organ.

Design in Living Systems...A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations. The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 104,478,296 . To bad the evo's are playing the craps tables.

As for your precious carbon dating....

A less-common form of the carbon atom, carbon-14, is used today by scientists as a method to date once-living organisms. Many people believe that carbon dating disproves the Biblical time scale of history. However, because of the difficulties with current C14 dating techniques, the dates produced have been shown to be faulty.

Cabon-14 is produced in the upper atmosphere by action of cosmic rays. One the C 14 has been formed, by converting nitrogen-14 into carbon-14, it behaves like ordinary carbon-12, combining with oxygen to give carbon dioxide, and freely cycling through the cells of all plants and animals. Carbon-14 is used for a dating material because once it has been formed, C14 begins to decay radioactively back to nitrogen-14, at a rate of change that can be measured. As soon as an organism dies, the C14 atoms which decay are no longer replaced by new ones through respiration. Consequently, the ratio of C14 to C12 in that once-living organism decreases as time goes on. The problem with the carbon dating method is—scientists can not be sure of what the C14/C12 ratio was when the organism died. Carbon dating assumes that the ratio has remained constant; however, events, such as the industrial revolution, are known to have raised C12 levels. Other possible factors, such as the presence of a water canopy, would have lowered the amount of C14 in the pre-Flood world. Because pre-Flood specimens had so little carbon-14 in them, some might appear to have been decaying for tens of thousands of years. Also, the decay of the earth’s magnetic field would have direct effects on C14 level, again, giving artificially old ages the farther you go back in time. Finally, carbon dating has been shown untrustworthy with some present day aquatic specimens that were concluded to be thousands of years old. For example, the shells of living snails’ were carbon dated and showed that the snails had died 27,000 years ago. Other specimens have been carbon dated more than once, each time producing a different date varying by thousands of years. In overview, we see that the radiocarbon dating method is certainly no embarrassment to the Biblical creationist who believes in a young earth. In fact, when all data, such as the decay of the magnetic field and the canopy, is taken into accord, carbon dating seems to support a young earth.

This is just a sampling of the research and evidence out there.

As for evolution there are 2 different types of evolution. Micro-evolution = provable and Macro-evolution = not provable.
Micro-evolution is essentially what Darwin studied which is basically survival of the fittest and the transmission of the superior genes.
Macro-evolution is what most ascribe to that our ancestor was a rock. ie.. primordial rain formed a pool and POOF an organisim appeared. Also this line of the theory would have you believe that fish begat rats which begat birds and so on.

In Christ,
Gabriel

 

[Kidan]

Quote[/b] (Jim @ Aug. 29 2004,9:47)]This is my first post (Sort of). Greetings.
Although I was born and raised a Christian, I became an Atheist after studying the Bible revealed a number of things which (I thought) didn't add up.
Here are some things I found which need to be looked at.

Adam and Eve:
The story logic behind the Adam and Eve theory of creation is, in my opinion, flawed.

Let us consider that the story is true. Mankind was created directly by God, and through His work, the Earth was created in seven days.

Quote[/b] ]9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Science has already speculated that the Earth began as a ball of hot gas and toxic fumes and was a lavascape before global cooling caused water to condense and begin the formation of life. This can be considered, since beneath the top layers of soil, sedimentary layers of cooled lava rock and geodes can be found. But nowhere in Genesis was this kind of beginning mentioned.

If you look closely, you'll see that Biblically, gases are grouped with liquids.  So, this isn't a valid arguement.   As well, how exactly, do they contradict?  The waters came togethor (hot gases, formed a ball), and dry land appeared (  liquid magma cooled forming dry land).

Quote[/b] ]

Let us consider the implications of God's curse. Eve was tempted by the snake and, convinced he was truthful (God frequently reminds us that Satan is adept at lies) offers the fruit to Adam. If this were the case, and the disobedience of God's one rule due to naivete on the part of Eve resulted in such a severe rebuke, then why does God not punish with such severity those who commit murder? Those who steal? Those who break the Sabbath? This makes no sense, and I am inclined to believe that God figured what Man had gained (Knowledge of Good and Evil) was more worthy of punishment than the breaking of His Law.

not really.  certain sins required different punishments in the OT, up to and including death.  As well, the punishment for eating the fruit was quite harsh.  Adam and eve were each given various punishments (working cursed land and pain in childbirth respectively) as well they now worked under the spector of death.  

Quote[/b] ]

But what if the story of Adam and Eve was not true? How does this affect things?

Many modern Christians claim they have faith, but that Adam and Eve was a 'poetic' story, not to be taken literally.

But if this is the case, shall we consider that without Original Sin (As commited by Adam and Eve) there is no basis for the 'curse' God has placed upon us?

Within the three main modern faiths (Jewish, Christian and [sic]Moslem), this story is the cornerstone on which the basis for their explantions of evil are based. Some claim God punishes us because we departed from God's Way in the commiting of the Original Sin. Without Original Sin, Man had not wronged God in such a way that warrants our curse. Without Adam and Eve, the evolutionist theory means that Man was created and evolved with free will, therefore God made us imperfect Himself. If this is true, why does God blame us when His own creations commit sins because that is the way He made us?

The thing is God did create us imperfect, because He created us with freewill.  For God to give us free will, He also had to give us the ability to fall.  For if we are only able to choose what God wants for us, then how would that be free will?

Quote[/b] ]

Next, consider Cain and Abel.

According to creationist theory, Cain and Abel were born of Adam and Eve. I'm pretty sure you all know how that story turned out. Upon learning of Abel's murder, Cain is condemned by God:

Quote[/b] ]12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

So cursed, Cain pleads with God, saying:

Quote[/b] ]13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

I ask: WHO would slay him? Assuming Creationism is true, who else would exist that would slay him? This still confuses me. Any concise arguments would help.

There is also the question where Cain finds his wife:

Quote[/b] ]17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

Where did this wife come from? Why did she not have a name? Could she have been one of Adam and Eve's many daughters?

Yes, these are Adam and Eve's children and grand children.  There is no giving of a timestamp between the fall and the first murder. All we know is that it happened sometime between Cain and Abel's birth and Cain's death.

Quote[/b] ]

I also find it hard to believe that Adam or Seth or any of his decendants could live for the nine-hundred and thirty years and the nine hundred and twelve years (respectively) the Bible professes. No mammal has this life span, and the current oldest man alive is a mere hundred and thirteen. It is rare for giant tortoises to reach that age, much less humans.

aging as we unerstand it today, is related greatly to what we eat, what we do, and our environment.  The pre-flood environment was incredible different.  These differences could easily account for the differences, as well as why suddenly post-flood, the oldest man dies at less than 200.

Quote[/b] ]

Noah's Ark & the Flood.

I am aware this one is perhaps quite controversial among pro/anti creationists, but let me highlight a few discrepancies I feel I need to point out.

Quote[/b] ]5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

This seems very exaggerated. It is a black-and white point of view, since Man is so diverse in his imaginings and dreams, that not EVERY man, woman and child could be of such unspeakable evil as to warrant their annihilation.

Quote[/b] ]Not EVERY man was.  Noah and his family were still after God's heart.

The notion of how so many animals from across the globe were rounded up, a pair of each species is debated: How did Noah bring them together? The answer, according to the Bible, was that God made them come to Noah.

based upon the measurements given in the Bible.  It is possible to fit every animal (in the quanitites given) known (both extinct and alive today) with plenty of room left over for foodstuffs.  Remember, there's nothing saying that all these animals were at their full growth.

Quote[/b] ]

From here, everything gets to sophisticated to argue fully, but needless to say, this might be an area worth arguing.

One final note: How did ancient civilisations appear in the americas and Australia (Mayan, Aztec, Native Indian, Aborigine) when all such life was undoubtedly quenched in the Flood?

pre-flood world was incredibly different than current.  See Continental shiftings.

Quote[/b] ]

More may come later. I hope this has provided food for thought and I welcome arguments against these theories. I would rather have an neutral but accurate outlook, than a passionate but flawed belief, whether an atheist view or religious view.

You ask for this, yet your entire argument is not an arguement against creationsim/Intelligent Design but rather against the Biblical account of creation.  Your debate begins its life as a theological arguement against the Bible, rather than a discussion concerning Evolution v. Creationism/Intelligent Desgin.

 

[PapaToad]

http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/top.htm

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/

http://www.symphonyofcreation.com/

http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_03_03_01.html

http://www.alphalink.com.au/~dannj/kronos.htm

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/science.shtml

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/fossil-record.htm

http://www.bibleplus.org/creation/evidence.htm

http://www.creationevidence.org/scienti....or.html


Here are some links
I will not go into detail except that, this brought me to Christianity hardcore, evolution can not happen, water and rock can not make life. Get all the facts before you talk smak. Even evolutionist can not make the missing link.

This is something I have spend a good time studying. This is the fire” of my passion for faith. Before you fire back some lame retort. I am a 32 year college educate US veteran. Do not open your mouth unless it’s an intelligent inquiry. I will not debate with a fool

In short, the earth is roughly 6000 years old, 4000 years ago there was a flood. Adam and eve where the 1st people.

End of discussion for me.

Thank you have a good life

 

[Mr.Bill]

Dun dun dunnn... The question to end all questions. I wish I were more learned on the topic, so I could go toe to toe with you all. Must do some researching.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ]Edit: Found this pretty ridiculus theory:

Quote
The population of the world, based upon the Berlin census reports of 1922, was found to be 1,804,187,000. The human race must double itself 30.75 times to make this number. This result may be approximately ascertained by the following computations:

At the beginning of the first period of doubling there would just be two human beings; the second, 4; the third, 8; the fourth, 16; the tenth, 1024; the twentieth 1,048,576, the thirtieth, 1,073,741,824; and the thirty-first, 2,147,483,648. In other words, if we raise two to the thirtieth power, we have 1,073,741,824; or to the thirty-first power, 2,147,483,648 Therefore, it is evident even to the school boy, that, to have the present population of the globe, the net population must be doubled more than thirty times and less than thirty-one times. By logarithms, we find it to be 30.75 times. After all allowances are made for natural deaths, wars, catastrophes, and losses of all kinds, if the human race would double its numbers 30.75 times, we would have the present population of the globe.

Now, according to the chronology of Hales, based on the Septuagint text, 5077 years have elapsed since the flood, and 5177 years since the ancestors of mankind numbered only two, Noah and his wife. By dividing 5177 by 30.75, we find it requires an average of 168.3 years for the human race to double its numbers, in order to make the present population. This is a reasonable average length of time.


this is pretty stupid. According to this thoery, the earliest traces of Man would be found to be not much older than 5177 years old, and would have been found round about the Middle East. Already, we have found bones and more that are more than several million years old in various places. How can Creation come one up over this?

And why exactly is this rediculus? Science has been wrong before, whats to stop it from being wrong again?

Cory

 

[Mr.Bill]

The Bible can't be proven wrong.  What's to stop it from being wrong?  How would we know?

I believe he said why it was ridiculous; becuase according to the theory the earth is around 5000 years old, and we have found bones that date much further back. Yes yes, carbon dating is innaccurate, but it's not THAT inaccurate.

 

[PapaToad]

Nothing Bill, It could be the biggest scam in the world. But I personally have felt the pressence of GOd, I personal have felt the call of Chirst to join his ministry.

It could but I could not tell youwhat it is to have your world coming apart staring deathion the eye and know Christ stands with you. I can noit discribe the senation of not know how or way, but you'll live thru this and be ok for it.

That comes from my Commune with God and my faith that Father God has a plan for me.

And I pray You know it as well!

 

[PapaToad]

Yes yes, carbon dating is innaccurate, but it's not THAT inaccurate.

yes it is, I have a link somewhere that can explain it better than I could off the top of my head. Its a made up measurement

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ]The Bible can't be proven wrong. What's to stop it from being wrong? How would we know?

But historically most of the Bible can be proven right. There are a few things that cannot be proven by history but it cannot be disproven, in that you are correct.

Cory

 

[Mr.Bill]

It wouldn't be a scam, it would just be the largest case of universal ignorance ever. But personally, even if that is the case, it doesn't matter. The concept of god trancends human comprehension, and so long as that is so its purpose is served.

As for carbon dating, I am aware that the method loses much of it's accuracy around 30000 years. But even so, I still find it illogical to presume that the earth has only existed for a few thousand years.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Aug. 30 2004,11:25)]

Quote[/b] ]The Bible can't be proven wrong.  What's to stop it from being wrong?  How would we know?

But historically most of the Bible can be proven right.  There are a few things that cannot be proven by history but it cannot be disproven, in that you are correct.

Cory

Correlation does not equate to causation.  Good one to remember.  Historically the Bible is the most accurate of the sacred texts, but this does not 'prove' god exists, he is the one true god, etc.  That's what really matters, and unfortunately it's also the part that can never be proven. But my point was that it's not fair to use logic like that when you know it can be used just as easily against you.

 

[PapaToad]

EVIDENCE FOR CREATION

1. The Fossil Record...Evolutionists have constructed the Geologic Column in order to illustrate the supposed progression of "primitive" life forms to "more complex" systems we observe today. Yet, "since only a small percentage of the earth's surface obeys even a portion of the geologic column the claim of their having taken place to form a continuum of rock/life/time over the earth is therefore a fantastic and imaginative contrivance.1" "[T]he lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled."2 This supposed column is actually saturated with "polystrate fossils" (fossils extending from one geologic layer to another) that tie all the layers to one time-frame. "[T]o the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation." 3

2. Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the atoms necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.

3. The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.8

4. Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.

5. Radio Halos...Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form.

6. Human Artifacts throughout the Geologic Column...Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock – point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past.11

7. Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, Nobel Prize medalist found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.12

8. Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.

9. Design in Living Systems...A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 4,478,296 .17

10. Design in the Human Brain...The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe.18 It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells.19 This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. 20 In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans - all without knowing they are doing so.21

Taken from here EVIDENCE FOR CREATION

1. The Fossil Record...Evolutionists have constructed the Geologic Column in order to illustrate the supposed progression of "primitive" life forms to "more complex" systems we observe today. Yet, "since only a small percentage of the earth's surface obeys even a portion of the geologic column the claim of their having taken place to form a continuum of rock/life/time over the earth is therefore a fantastic and imaginative contrivance.1" "[T]he lack of transitional series cannot be explained as being due to the scarcity of material. The deficiencies are real, they will never be filled."2 This supposed column is actually saturated with "polystrate fossils" (fossils extending from one geologic layer to another) that tie all the layers to one time-frame. "[T]o the unprejudiced, the fossil record of plants is in favor of special creation." 3

2. Decay of Earth's Magnetic Field... Dr. Thomas Barnes, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Texas at El Paso, has published the definitive work in this field.4 Scientific observations since 1829 have shown that the earth's magnetic field has been measurably decaying at an exponential rate, demonstrating its half-life to be approximately 1,400 years. In practical application its strength 20,000 years ago would approximate that of a magnetic star. Under those conditions many of the atoms necessary for life processes could not form. These data demonstrate that earth's entire history is young, within a few thousand of years.

3. The Global Flood... The Biblical record clearly describes a global Flood during Noah's day. Additionally, there are hundreds of Flood traditions handed down through cultures all over the world. 5 M.E. Clark and Henry Voss have demonstrated the scientific validity of such a Flood providing the sedimentary layering we see on every continent. 6 Secular scholars report very rapid sedimentation and periods of great carbonate deposition in earth's sedimentary layers..7 It is now possible to prove the historical reality of the Biblical Flood.8

4. Population Statistics...World population growth rate in recent times is about 2% per year. Practicable application of growth rate throughout human history would be about half that number. Wars, disease, famine, etc. have wiped out approximately one third of the population on average every 82 years. Starting with eight people, and applying these growth rates since the Flood of Noah's day (about 4500 years ago) would give a total human population at just under six billion people. However, application on an evolutionary time scale runs into major difficulties. Starting with one "couple" just 41,000 years ago would give us a total population of 2 x 1089. 9 The universe does not have space to hold so many bodies.

5. Radio Halos...Physicist Robert Gentry has reported isolated radio halos of polonuim-214 in crystalline granite. The half-life of this element is 0.000164 seconds! To record the existence of this element in such short time span, the granite must be in crystalline state instantaneously.10 This runs counter to evolutionary estimates of 300 million years for granite to form.

6. Human Artifacts throughout the Geologic Column...Man-made artifacts - such as the hammer in Cretaceous rock, a human sandal print with trilobite in Cambrian rock, human footprints and a handprint in Cretaceous rock – point to the fact that all the supposed geologic periods actually occurred at the same time in the recent past.11

7. Helium Content in Earth's Atmosphere... Physicist Melvin Cook, Nobel Prize medalist found that helium-4 enters our atmosphere from solar wind and radioactive decay of uranium. At present rates our atmosphere would accumulate current helium-4 amounts in less than 10,000 years.12

8. Expansion of Space Fabric...Astronomical estimates of the distance to various galaxies gives conflicting data.13 The Biblical Record refers to the expansion of space by the Creator14. Astrophysicist Russell Humphries demonstrates that such space expansion would dilate time in distant space.15 This could explain a recent creation with great distances to the stars.

9. Design in Living Systems...A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 4,478,296 .17

10. Design in the Human Brain...The human brain is the most complicated structure in the known universe.18 It contains over 100 billion cells, each with over 50,000 neuron connections to other brain cells.19 This structure receives over 100 million separate signals from the total human body every second. If we learned something new every second of our lives, it would take three million years to exhaust the capacity of the human brain. 20 In addition to conscious thought, people can actually reason, anticipate consequences, and devise plans - all without knowing they are doing so.21

Taken from Here :http://www.creationevidence.org/scientific_evid/evidencefor/evidencefor.html

I also list alot of other links in my past post

 

[PapaToad]

SOrry about the double paste

 

[Arkanjel]

Wow I just found some really good stuff for the skeptics. Guess what you (the skeptic) have been prophesized. LOL What do you think about that?

The fact that God once flooded the earth (the Noahic Flood) would be denied (2 Peter 3:5-6). There is a mass of fossil evidence to prove this fact, yet it is flatly ignored by the scientific world because of its uncanny implication.
Visit:
Noah’s Flood Questions and Answers (answersingenesis.org)

And another...

The majority of those in the last days church would be lukewarm, wealthy, complacent and would be vomited into tribulation (Revelation 3:14-16). Polls reveal that a high percentage of professing Christians deny that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. Many even deny that Jesus is God.
> For updated news & links visit:
Lukewarm Christians (harpazo network)

and...

Some professing Christians would give heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1). This generation has witnessed the explosion of apparitions and other "heavenly visitors" that are embraced by professing Christians even though their doctrines contradict the Word of God.

and the best for last...

Men would mock the warning signs of the end of the age saying,
"These signs have always been around" (2 Peter 3:3-4).
The Bible even reveals their motivation, they love lust.

Yeah some of these probably fit in another thread, but since this stuff applies to all here it is anyways.

In Christ,
Gabriel

 

[Jim]

Thank you to Christian posters. You have provided some food for thought.

By the way...

Quote[/b] ]

Here are some links
I will not go into detail except that, this brought me to Christianity hardcore, evolution can not happen, water and rock can not make life. Get all the facts before you talk smak. Even evolutionist can not make the missing link.

This is something I have spend a good time studying. This is the fire” of my passion for faith.  Before you fire back some lame retort. I am a 32 year college educate US veteran. Do not open your mouth unless it’s an intelligent inquiry. I will not debate with a fool

In short, the earth is roughly 6000 years old, 4000 years ago there was a flood. Adam and eve where the 1st people.

End of discussion for me.

Thank you have a good life

Your links were useful, but there is no excuse for being abusive. My apologies if I have offended you, but that was uncalled for.

 

[PapaToad]

No I apoligize to those I offened. It was an unnessary and unneeded comment on my Part.

I ask your forgiveness. I tend to get heated myself.

I am sorry

 

[Dark Virtue]

The last time I checked, there was NO good, hard, irrefutable, scientific proof of a GLOBAL flood.

The proof that exists shows flooding in many parts of the world, but not a globalized, worldwide flood anywhere near the proportions that lie in the Bible.

Do you REALLY want to start arguing about the validity of the Flood Story in the Bible? All those animals fitting in that little boat? Hmm? I was under the impression that most Christians now believe that this was simply a made up story and wasn't actually historical.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ] All those animals fitting in that little boat? Hmm? I was under the impression that most Christians now believe that this was simply a made up story and wasn't actually historical.

Little boat? really?

Quote[/b] ]The Ark measured 300x50x30 cubits (Genesis 6:15), which is about 140x23x13.5 metres or 459x75x44 feet, so its volume was 43,500 m3 (cubic metres) or 1.54 million cubic feet. To put this in perspective, this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard American railroad stock cars, each of which can hold 240 sheep.

If the animals were kept in cages with an average size of 50x50x30 centimetres (20x20x12 inches), that is 75,000 cm3 (cubic centimetres) or 4800 cubic inches, the 16,000 animals would only occupy 1200 m3 (42,000 cubic feet) or 14.4 stock cars. Even if a million insect species had to be on board, it would not be a problem, because they require little space. If each pair was kept in cages of 10 cm (four inches) per side, or 1000 cm3, all the insect species would occupy a total volume of only 1000 m3, or another 12 cars. This would leave room for five trains of 99 cars each for food, Noah’s family and ‘range’ for the animals. However, insects are not included in the meaning of behemah or remes in Genesis 6:19-20, so Noah probably would not have taken them on board as passengers anyway.

Tabulating the total volume is fair enough, since this shows that there would be plenty of room on the Ark for the animals with plenty left over for food, range etc. It would be possible to stack cages, with food on top or nearby (to minimize the amount of food carrying the humans had to do), to fill up more of the Ark space, while still allowing plenty of room for gaps for air circulation. We are discussing an emergency situation, not necessarily luxury accommodation. Although there is plenty of room for exercise, skeptics have overstated animals’ needs for exercise anyway.

Even if we don’t allow stacking one cage on top of another to save floor space, there would be no problem. Woodmorappe shows from standard recommended floor space requirements for animals that all of them together would have needed less than half the available floor space of the Ark’s three decks. This arrangement allows for the maximum amount of food and water storage on top of the cages close to the animals.
Food requirements

The Ark would probably have carried compressed and dried foodstuffs, and probably a lot of concentrated food. Perhaps Noah fed the cattle mainly on grain, plus some hay for fibre. Woodmorappe calculated that the volume of foodstuffs would have been only about 15 % of the Ark’s total volume. Drinking water would only have taken up 9.4 % of the volume. This volume would be reduced further if rainwater was collected and piped into troughs.
Excretory requirements

It is doubtful whether the humans had to clean the cages every morning. Possibly they had sloped floors or slatted cages, where the manure could fall away from the animals and be flushed away (plenty of water around!) or destroyed by vermicomposting (composting by worms) which would also provide earthworms as a food source. Very deep bedding can sometimes last for a year without needing a change. Absorbent material (e.g. sawdust, softwood wood shavings and especially peat moss) would reduce the moisture content and hence the odour.
Hibernation

The space, feeding and excretory requirements were adequate even if the animals had normal day/night sleeping cycles. But hibernation is a possibility which would reduce these requirements even more. It is true that the Bible does not mention it, but it does not rule it out either. Some creationists suggest that God created the hibernation instinct for the animals on the Ark, but we should not be dogmatic either way.

Some skeptics argue that food taken on board rules out hibernation, but this is not so. Hibernating animals do not sleep all winter, despite popular portrayals, so they would still need food occasionally.

Not really that little of a boat...

I think it is a literal story, not madeup

From AnswerinGenesis.org

Cory