Church stuff

C

Caleb

Member
In the past I've been to a church where when people
get prayed for sometimes I think, they fall to the
ground, I think I've been prayed for but I never
did fall to the ground I'm sure. Now about Holy
laughter I think there is verse's in the Bible that
might back up Holy laughter,

Its 1 Cor 3:18 which says:

No one should fool himself. If anyone among you
thinks that he is wise by this world's standards,
he should become a fool, in order to be really wise.

and 1 Cor 1:25 says:

For what seems to be God's foolishness is wiser than
human wisdom, and what seems to be God's weakness is
stronger than human strength.

These are the verse which look's like backing up Holy
laughter I think. Now think about some Christian's
which speaks in tongue's, what would Non-believer's
think?
 
There is a difference between the foolishness expressed in those verses and the losing control espoused by the laughter.

Those verses deal with how we act and think. We're to act foolish in the eyes of the world, by obeying God's commands, by loving our neighbors even more than ourselves, by sacrificing to help others. These actions seem foolish to those in the world, but wise to God. The second verse basically mean that we really don't know what God's doing. His thought are above us, just like an ant can't understand what compellls us to do things, so we can't understand what compells God to do things. We can have glimmerings and insight, but we really don't know.

I don't see any relation between those two verses and the laughing. Yet the Bible tells us that we have control over ANY manifestations of the Holy Spirit. This uncontrollable laughter falls outside of, and contradicts by it's nature of being uncontrollable, the Biblical standards set forth for manifestations of the Holy Spirit and His gifts.

As for the falling down, there has been numerous posts on my opinions on that matter. I will repost them if you desire, but you can find them in previous threads.
 
Yeah I think I made a topic about this on the AoG that came to my church and screwed up services for a bit and really disturbed me quite a bit.

Also Caleb you should know this: there are such things as theatrics, and as overdramatic acts, and liars.

And, may I ask, what would holy laughter do to edify God or your peers? "Ho ho ho ho ha ha ha ha ha hehheh ho ha! Heh ho ho ha hee hee heh ha ho!"

Maybe talking in tongues COULD help...but I doubt it now in this day and age.
 
I think that you have to be careful around extreems.

I think that there has been times in "revivals in the past" where the Holy Spirit has manifested himself in laughing and falling down etc.

In acts the disciples were accused of being drunk first thing in the morning. What actions do a drunk man have? that would get them accused of this.

BUT

I have seen some churches seek the gift and not the giver in these areas and become extreem. THat's the problem. There may be times where the Holy Spirit moves sovereignly but when it gets to the point that people judge a service by whether or not someone has laughed uncontrollably, theyre off the rails a little.

I have seen this stuff in church, and i believe its seasonal. I also believe that it can bring a refreshing to a church that has become old and stale.

Judge a thing by it's fruit. What does it produce? And in different people it will produce different things. So who is really being touched and who is faking it artificially, cos I've seen both.




sealcomm
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Kidan @ June 11 2003,10:15)]I don't see any relation between those two verses and the laughing.  Yet the Bible tells us that we have control over ANY manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Where in the Bible doe's it tell me that
I have control over any manifestations of
the Holy Spirit.
 
In first Corinthians were Paul is expalining the gifts, we are told
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1Co 14:27  If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28  But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
1Co 14:29  Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
1Co 14:30  If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
1Co 14:31  For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
1Co 14:32  And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.
1Co 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
Click to expand...
 
I don't want to contradict Kidan, but the Spirit of God over your life in regard to prophecy and the Anointing of the Holy Spirit when he comes upon you in power are two different things

I do agree that we are in control when the SPirit of God is on us. I have heard where people claim to go up in a cloud (blank out) and when they come to they have done all sorts of weird things. (i have a problem with that)

With regards to falling over in church etc, i think that the best way to describe it is letting someone push you over.

A friend can walk up to me and push me and i can resist. OR
i can let them shove me over.

So sometimes in churches where the Spirit is 'moving' you will see the effects of the Spirit on people. They laugh, they cry they shake. Sometimes it's a little weird.

I think that the spirit can genuinely touch people. Especially when they need it. You test something by it's fruit. Have you seen people change because they have been touched? OR are they just there to let their hair down, act all weird and blame God. Both of these can happen in the same meeting. IT depends on the individual.

Here's a couple of verses from the bible in relation to the HOly spirits effect on people

Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. NIV

Acts 2:13
Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine." NIV

Now if these guys were all normal, why would they be called drunk? What actions to you associate with drunk people. It's a little weird at times. Stumbling, laughing, falling over.


I think the danger is that some people decide that being drunk under the spirit is the only thing for them, and spiritually they try to live there. Seeking the gift instead of the giver.

Have a look through acts and it says that people received the Holy SPirit. What visibly did people see to confirm that? One evidence is the speaking in tongues, but there is more..


food for thought.


sealcomm
 
But do pay close attention to those verses as well

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.  NIV
Click to expand...

Notice, the Spirit enabled them to speak in tongues and then they BEGAN to speak.  There is a control issue implied.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Acts 2:13
Some, however, made fun of them and said, "They have had too much wine."    NIV
Click to expand...
Actually most of my experiences have been with angry drunks, so I usually associate violent behaviour with to much wine.  But that's just me.  Yet being drunk is a synonym for being out of control.  Whenever someone is acting foolishly or odd or different or in general out of control with the norms we expect, we say they're stoned or drunk.  But notice what Peter says next "No they're not drunk, they're filled with the Spirit."  They're not out of control.  They've not been imbibing.  They have the Spirit within them.  Besides, our God is a God of order not chaos.  How can stumbling and falling be order?


Also, in these experiences in Act, are there ever any examples of laughter or slaying by the Spirit?  I truly can't bring to mind any verse that describes laughter fits of the Spirit, and the verses used to defend being slain in the spirit are actually in the presence of Christ, not the Spirit.



[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I think the danger is that some people decide that being drunk under the spirit is the only thing for them, and spiritually they try to live there. Seeking the gift instead of the giver.
Click to expand...
This is incredibly true.  People feel these emotional highs that these so-called men of God are feeding them, and that's all they want.  It feels good, yet it's not filling.
 
I think when peter says theyre not drunk is stating that it's not alcohol that has started this behaviour it's GOd.

There is definitely more than angry drunks out there. So if someone is looking alcoholic drunk, which is what they were, then i think control wasn't a feature on the top of the list.

I mean think about it. People who saw them called them drunk, the fact that it wasn't alcohol doesn't change the fact of their behaviour.

I also think that in modern days people can be a little drunk and play it up even more, and it CAN be the same under the Holy Spirit.

I have also seen people carried home from church. And that was legit. They were out. and the fruit was that something inside was changed.

I've heard some people say that it's like Gods anaesthetic. (how do you spell that) He puts people under and helps them deal with issues that need his help.

judge it by it's fruit. I also think it's on an individual basis. There's many wacko's out there, but God's presence is real. It affects us and is visible in us, like the wind in the trees


be cool

sealcomm
 
ok, but you still have to deal with the verse that tells us to be sober-minded in all things.  How can we be drunk on the spirit and sober in all things?

Also, for this falling down, why would the Spirit suddenly create a new form of influence?  This behaviour is never credited to the Spirit in the New Testament Why would he suddenly start doing something new?

While yes, we should judge things by the fruit they produce, we also should judge things based upon what the Bible describes.

Taken leaven.  You could add such a small amount of leaven to a batch of dough that the bread would never rise.  So it's 'fruit' would appear to be the proper unleavend bread.  Yet we know that a little leaven, leavens the entire batch of dough.

So it is with these teachings.  Yes they may look right.  People may change for a bit by them. Yet there is still something wrong in the execution.


God's presence is real. Of course it is.  God's presence affects us.  Of course it does.  Yet the Spirit will affect us in certain ways as laid out in God's Word.  Any deviation from those ways, puts into question whether or not this is truly the Holy Spirit.
There are many types and forms of demons in this world, and not all of them feel bad.  Some feel glorious and wonderful and loving, but it's a lie.  A half-truth to make you feel acceptance without the Comforter.

Remember the leaven, do you want the teachings you pass on, to be spirituallys leavened or spiritually unleavened?
 
gist is, the world sees us christians as a bunch of half-wits and stubborn people who don't "see the light" and stuff.

interesting stuff:
light = lucifer = satan... hmmm.... I'm darn glad I don't see the light.
 
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