Christian Game Developers Conference 2008

wish i had gone this year but next year i most likely will
 
now why didn't i know about this when i lived on the West Coast...

O well.
Tell me how it is if you went.

And do me a favor to explain what it is all about. (my first thought is of the stereo typical Christian talking about how video games are far to violent and should be about memorizing Bible verses... )

BUT...
then, i just had a vision in my head of a video game of the Israelite beginning to conquer in the Promise land... (Warning... mini rant)
of God stopping the sun for 3 days of battle. and of all of those battles.... You could be a front line soldier in mid-evil battle... fight in a chariot, or with a bow, or a spear or sword... or... ok now i want to play this imaginary video game ^^... What an amazing video game that could be with verses during the cut scenes to explain why and what is happening...

well... yeah. what is it like?
 
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To be honest, I don't see Christian games having great success. Having a Christian theme is no problem. I think that'd even sell to non-Christians. The problem is developers softening content, afraid to offend some. No violence, blood and gore. No sweet guns or swords or other sorts of weapons. Can't! This is a Christian game.

It'd be unfortunate if the best Christian game ever made turned out to be Doom 3.
 
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To be honest, I don't see Christian games having great success. Having a Christian theme is no problem. I think that'd even sell to non-Christians. The problem is developers softening content, afraid to offend some. No violence, blood and gore. No sweet guns or swords or other sorts of weapons. Can't! This is a Christian game.
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Admittedly Christian Gaming will always be playing catch-up to the secular industry.. But then i dont see any multi-million pound r&d offices for a christian company.. The game lazarus has posted is probably one of the most advanced out there and shows how the genre is progressing.

However i would argue that Christian games have a vital place in the market. There is absolutely no reason why a top selling multi-platfrom game cannot be made with high moral values and a christian perspective. The Wii shows that you dont need a R rating to sell millions. Of course... whatever christian gamers can do, secular gamers could probably do better right now.

Anyway, am gonna download the demo of that game and see what its like.
 
If Squaresoft could use Final Fantasy VII to push Taoism and Buddhism, I don't understand why American studios can't use games to promote Christianity. I can only name one US-developed console RPG (Secret of Evermore), but there are several US-developed PC RPGs. If Dungeons and Dragons borrows heavily from The Lord of the Rings, it wouldn't be very difficult to create a PC RPG with Christian themes.
 
How did FFVII "push" Taoism and Buddhism?

There's a difference between "pushing" a religion and having a religion play a large part of a game. I've just started playing Assassin's Creed where religion plays a huge part in the game...settings, themes, etc.

Now on the other end of the spectrum is Left Behind: Eternal Forces...THAT is an excellent example of a game pushing religion.

HUGE difference.

I would think that with all the money flowing through Christian churches, the capital required to support a decent game would be easy to get. I really don't see any mega church sponsoring a game like Glitch suggested though.
 
Dark Virtue said:
How did FFVII "push" Taoism and Buddhism?

There's a difference between "pushing" a religion and having a religion play a large part of a game. I've just started playing Assassin's Creed where religion plays a huge part in the game...settings, themes, etc.

Now on the other end of the spectrum is Left Behind: Eternal Forces...THAT is an excellent example of a game pushing religion.

HUGE difference.
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I actually have to agree with DV on that one.

On the RPG note - I think game creators may have indirectly burned out the ideas for creating christian RPGS since alot of people associate knights and holy warriors with the crusades and religious symbols of all kinds are the norm., therefor its hard to create something really original.
 
Objectively, I'm not sure how one would even broach a Christian-based RPG that had secular appeal.

Let's count secular appeal out for a minute and just focus on Christian gamers. Let's assume that gamers, in general, follow the adherent breakdown of the rest of the world. That would mean that 33% of gamers are Christian (based off of http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html). So let's look at the biggest MMO out there, World of Warcraft. According to this, WoW is boasting 10 million subscribers. That would mean 3.3 million of those subscribers are Christian. According to N4G.com, the best selling PC game of 2007 was World of Warcraft:Burning Crusade with 2.25 million units sold. What that means is that if every Christian gamer that was playing WoW left to buy one copy of a Christian MMO, it would blow the doors off of every game sold last year.

So what would it take to make that happen? What's holding that back? Is it the lack of good developers available to create the game or is it the subject matter/content in general? Granted, I think there's a big difference between a "Christian Gamer" and a gamer that's a Christian.

Anyone have any numbers on how many units of Left Behind: Eternal Forces sold? Don't want to pick on that game, but it's the only overtly Christian game that I can think of that's recent. According to a Feb. 2007 article in Gamespot, the game posted sales of $2.2 million. Assuming each unit sold for $50, that's 44,000 units sold. That's far below the 10th best selling game of 2007, The Sims 2 Pets Expansion Pack with 236,000 units sold. Again, if anyone has more complete numbers, please let me know.

So what's the problem? There seems to be a huge player base out there. Any ideas?
 
honestly...
I think the main reason is that most video games out there that have any appeal to people will offend someone... and if a game is directly "Christian", the developers will have to assure not to offend the most uptight people.
There can't be any killing in the game... there can't be any hitting at all...
There can't be a well done bad guy... cause we don't want to scare anyone... there can't be anything scary in the game...


yeah... in my mind. I can't think of a single game i have that i don't attack something else. Whether that is an RTS where i fight wars, an FPS where i must shoot terrorists, an RPG where i have to destroy demons or animals.
Honestly... if they are making an RPG...you always need a good villain... and similar to what Atown said, you can't include much armor or anything that reminds others of the crusades.

well... i like my old idea of the conquering of the promise land by the Israelite.... BUT... that game would never be able to release because you have to kill other people in a war. well... that might offend someone... and we as Christians shouldn't do those things?.... WHAT?

I am full for a game that has Christian designers, has Christian themes or ideas, or even uses a Biblical story... but if you label a game as a "christian" game, you can't put anything in the game that would offend... anyone...
 
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I kinda agree with glitch but I think the problem with christian games is that they focus to much on looking like a christian game on the surface and don't pay enough attention to getting their msg across in the sub-text. If you take Tolkien and C.S. Lewis both created worlds that had immense appeal to everyone and had all the elements required for an awesome game (LOTRO anyone) but had no real reference to christianity on the surface. What they did was provide a beautifully crafted subtext that contained powerful themes of christian love, sacrafice, and morality.

I would like to see christian gamers focus more on creating an engaging world for there games that is largely devoid of christian content and get the msg across in the sub-text. This is far more likely to be successful in my opinion.
 
Tek7 said:
If Squaresoft could use Final Fantasy VII to push Taoism and Buddhism, I don't understand why American studios can't use games to promote Christianity. I can only name one US-developed console RPG (Secret of Evermore), but there are several US-developed PC RPGs. If Dungeons and Dragons borrows heavily from The Lord of the Rings, it wouldn't be very difficult to create a PC RPG with Christian themes.
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how true, if they can do than we can do it!
 
ppar3566 said:
I would like to see christian gamers focus more on creating an engaging world for there games that is largely devoid of christian content and get the msg across in the sub-text. This is far more likely to be successful in my opinion.
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/me points to ppar's text

That. That's what I was trying to say.

A Christian RPG doesn't have to be geared toward children or present the world in black and white. One of the best RPGs I've ever played featured playable characters with personality flaws. The characters worked through those flaws as the game progressed, which gave the story a sense of movement and realism while still providing the player with a reason to become emotionally attached to the characters and thus more receptive to themes presented in the story.

If a Christian RPG is the story of the awesome Mr. Light against the evil Dr. Dark (or something else as simplistic), it'll be difficult for any RPG player to get attached to the characters or engrossed in the story. The appeal of the story then is based on graphics, battle systems, and other elements not related to story or characters. While that works for many RPGs, the greatest RPGs feature excellent stories and characters (e.g. Final Fantasy IV, FFVI, Chrono Trigger).

Great literature has always offended. People (including J.K. Rowling and Neil Gaiman) are still up in arms about Lewis's decision to...
remove Susan from the Narnia cast of characters in later books because she adopts a secular value system and abandons (or, at the least, devalues) her faith.
The decision was seen as sexist and anti-feminist, proving the writers completely missed the point (and context) of what Lewis was trying to say.

A Christian game is bound to offend someone because the Bible is bound to offend everyone at some point--including Christians--because it tells us that we are flawed beyond our own repair and incapable of saving ourselves. Even the greatest RPGs I've played fall flat at the end because they present a world view that "Well, gee whiz, if you just try hard enough and believe in yourself and others, you can save everyone!"

I would love to see a Christian game with a complex story, dynamic characters, and difficult truths presented in a manner where writers don't talk down to the player. Picking up "the Sword of the Word" to defeat a gargoyle that represents demonic forces is fine for younger players. Writers have used allegories and symbols for years to explain things in simpler terms more palatable for younger readers. But to appeal to adults, you'll need a more engaging story and characters.
 
Tek7 said:
A Christian game is bound to offend someone because the Bible is bound to offend everyone at some point--including Christians--because it tells us that we are flawed beyond our own repair and incapable of saving ourselves. Even the greatest RPGs I've played fall flat at the end because they present a world view that "Well, gee whiz, if you just try hard enough and believe in yourself and others, you can save everyone!"

I would love to see a Christian game with a complex story, dynamic characters, and difficult truths presented in a manner where writers don't talk down to the player. Picking up "the Sword of the Word" to defeat a gargoyle that represents demonic forces is fine for younger players. Writers have used allegories and symbols for years to explain things in simpler terms more palatable for younger readers. But to appeal to adults, you'll need a more engaging story and characters.
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If that is possible... and if it was a good game. I would play it. If the designer wasn't afraid of offending people, If the designer wasn't afraid of offering the hard truth of what has to happen in life sometimes... well... that would be a great game.

Now my next question is... What kind of game? Is the largest consensus an RPG? or are there different possibilities?

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. An RPG Christian game would be amazing. If it had a complex story with fearful villians and amazing difficult / challenging game play... I would love that game. But my next question is if a christian game can hit other places than RPG's ?
 
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Glitch said:
honestly...
I think the main reason is that most video games out there that have any appeal to people will offend someone... and if a game is directly "Christian", the developers will have to assure not to offend the most uptight people.
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What does "directly Christian" mean though? Christians, as a whole, can't even define what Christianity is (look at the Catholic-Protestant conflict as an example) so you're bound not to please every Christian. I still find it highly amusing at the absolute vehemence that man Christian churches had towards Harry Potter when it first came out, arguing the usual things: witchcraft, devil worship, etc and now, after the undeniable popularity of the books & movies, you can find brochures on how to use Harry Potter as a means of spreading the gospel. I would see something similar happen with a questionable Christian based game if it became popular.

There can't be any killing in the game... there can't be any hitting at all...
There can't be a well done bad guy... cause we don't want to scare anyone... there can't be anything scary in the game...
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Eh, I don't know if I really buy that. Just look at the OT, it was pretty bloody and violent. How you would work that into a game though...that would be tricky.

yeah... in my mind. I can't think of a single game i have that i don't attack something else. Whether that is an RTS where i fight wars, an FPS where i must shoot terrorists, an RPG where i have to destroy demons or animals.
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Hey, that's what sells, but that's besides the point, we're talking about a Christian based game here. What are some of the popular Christian based games out there? I really have no idea here. I would think if there was a Christian Video Game Conference, there would be a pretty good library of games out there.

Honestly... if they are making an RPG...you always need a good villain... and similar to what Atown said, you can't include much armor or anything that reminds others of the crusades.
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Not sure why you say that. I don't know if the Crusades would be the best choice for a Christian game though. But depending on your setting, I'm not sure why you couldn't have armor. Heck, you already have a biblical example in Ephesians 6:10-18.

well... i like my old idea of the conquering of the promise land by the Israelite.... BUT... that game would never be able to release because you have to kill other people in a war. well... that might offend someone... and we as Christians shouldn't do those things?.... WHAT?
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Hey, it all depends on your setting. I think the underlying problem here is that you, as a Christian, would have to be willing to admit that God sanctioned wars, etc and that would definitely upset some Christians.

I am full for a game that has Christian designers, has Christian themes or ideas, or even uses a Biblical story... but if you label a game as a "christian" game, you can't put anything in the game that would offend... anyone...
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I think it could be done, in context.

Don't take this the wrong way, just using you as an example, but YOU are the reason that Christian game programmers have such a hard time. You said it yourself when you described all the games you own...definitely UN-Christian. Without support, how do you expect any Christian game companies to survive, much less thrive? I see the cyclical problem though...who wants to buy a game that isn't fun?
 
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