Capital Punishment

T

ToJ | Dead_Aim

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"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn him on the other also.'"

Mathew 5:38-39

I am fully behind capital punishment. As far as how to kill the people I have been fine with all the ways up to now. I don't care how they kill them as long as justice is served, Letahl injection or electric chair. They all serve the same purpose.

My question to you guys is: Are you for it or against it?
 
I am for it as long as the person is convicted with out a doubt. Our justice system isn't perfect so I hate to see innocent people behind bar or executed for that matter. But overall I am for it.
 
I'm for it. The verse you quoted is to a person. The public needs protection from criminals up to and included the death of said criminals. Is it sad? Yes. Is something being sad reason enough to do away with it? No, if it was, we'd never see "ol' Yellar" again.

That said, there is something I do not agree with, and that's the removal of it from the public square. To many people don't truly comprehend the full punishment (as if our jails could truly be called that) that could await them for their crimes. If we hanged people out behind the courthouse for any to witness, it would drive home the seriousness of capital crimes. But hey, that's just me.
 
I am for Capital Punishment under certain conditions.

If a person has done something gravely wrong and is no longer a threat, why kill him? There's always the opportunity for that person to convert. Although they are few in number, there have been those who have totally changed their lives, whether they were on death row or not.

On the other hand, if a person is a risk and there is a possibility that he might get out and harm others, than the death penalty is the best option.

In the end though, God is the one who gives life and he is the only one, under most circumstances, who can take it away. As Jesus says in the Our Father and in the Garden of Gethsemany, "Thy will be done." Thus, unless a person is a real danger to society, there is no real reason to take their lives. God's providence is at work after all.
 
I am for capital punishment.I think if some one has done somethine exteremily heinous(<spelling) then they should pay the price for it.
 
I think we should be able to kill transgressors - but I also think that we should be VERY certain as to their guilt before we do so. As much as death makes a suitable punishment in some cases - I don't have the confidence in our justice system to reccomend it as a common punishment.

Eon
 
not as a common punishment, yet our common punishment of incarceration has become to lax with to many worrying over how comfortable those inarcerated are
 
All for it. It should be like public hangings used to be. Firing squad executions live on public television. It'd definetely get other criminals thinking about possible consequences of their actions, and show the general public that the government is serious about keeping crime down.

And maybe, if it was shown on TV, we wouldn't have to watch "ol' Yeller" quite as often (Kidan ;-)).
 
Against it, myself. I used to be for it just because I was raised conservative, but about a year and a half ago I did a term paper on it. This, of course, involved researching both sides using multiple sources. Basically, in my opinion, yes, capital punishment does have its place, but not in the United States (my research focused on the US).

Concerning justice, well, there are moral arguments against that. For instance, it is not man's place to judge. The correct purpose for a 'justice' system is to protect society from individuals who would cause significant harm (which is determined by legislation passing laws). Yes, God can use courts to bring justice, but such an occurrence is determined by Him, not men; it is arrogant (imo) to think that everything men call "justice" really is justice, especially considering that God has made it perfectly clear that He is willing to allow our volition to get in the way of what may be good, right, or just.

As for deterring crime, capital punishment is not much of a deterrent. The arguments for this are largely statistical, but the problem basically comes down to how people perceive capital punishment. It does not apply to most crimes, it will not necessarily be given in cases which may allow it, it is decided in the distant future (when the trial comes around), and it is enacted well past that (after all of the appeals). Besides, when a person is committing a crime normally deemed as deserving death, they are very rarely concerned at all about what will happen to them afterwards, causing the chance of being deterred by the risk of capital punishment to fly out the window. As for making capital punishment public, which would honestly fix the above problems for the most part, that will never happen in the US. Way too many people would be opposed.

I will now elaborate on the two main reasons against capital punishment.

First, capital punishment is costly. A very, very significant amount of money goes into getting permission to kill a convicted person. I don't have numbers on me, but I am sure you can look it up if you want to. Basically, the costs of the appeals come mostly out of the public's pockets. Those on death row will attempt as many appeals as they are allowed, since it pushes back their execution. If capital punishment were done away with (which I don't think will have much detriment, for the reasons I mentioned above), that money could be sent to better purposes. Yes, there have been cases of convicted criminals getting out and murdering people, but if the money is spent right, it can save many, many more. And if you think we should do away with the appeals process and just execute people right away, there is a problem with that because:

Second, not everyone convicted of a crime is guilty. In those appeals, people on death row have actually proven their innocence (yes, proven, in the same sense that their guilt was proven). The quicker the executions are carried out, the more innocent people who will be killed. No, imprisonment isn't perfect in this regard, it also takes away from an innocent person's life.. but at least, if they are innocent, they have a chance at regaining part of what's left of that life.


Idealistically, of course, capital punishment wouldn't be needed. And, speaking practically, I cannot be entirely sure that I am right in opposing it for the US. However, based on what I do know, I do think it would be better to do away with it than leave it as it is. Feel free to disagree, of course. These are just my opinions.
 
First off I ask why would you oppose it in just one country? My opinion is that your views are a bit skewed but hey maybe thats just me.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] For instance, it is not man's place to judge. The correct purpose for a 'justice' system is to protect society from individuals who would cause significant harm (which is determined by legislation passing laws). Yes, God can use courts to bring justice, but such an occurrence is determined by Him, not men; it is arrogant (imo) to think that everything men call "justice" really is justice, especially considering that God has made it perfectly clear that He is willing to allow our volition to get in the way of what may be good, right, or just.
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If I understand what you are saying here correctly you do not believe it is our place to punish people for the crimes they commit? Plz make it a bit more clear so I can respond.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]First, capital punishment is costly. A very, very significant amount of money goes into getting permission to kill a convicted person. I don't have numbers on me, but I am sure you can look it up if you want to. Basically, the costs of the appeals come mostly out of the public's pockets. Those on death row will attempt as many appeals as they are allowed, since it pushes back their execution. If capital punishment were done away with (which I don't think will have much detriment, for the reasons I mentioned above), that money could be sent to better purposes. Yes, there have been cases of convicted criminals getting out and murdering people, but if the money is spent right, it can save many, many more. And if you think we should do away with the appeals process and just execute people right away, there is a problem with that because:
Click to expand...

Yeah it cost a lot to kill someone but it also cost a lot to keep a convicted killer alive. Over a 100,000 dollars of a tax payers money to keep one inmate fed, clothed, bathed, housed a year. When it comes down to it, a few feet of rope, a stool, and some time finding a big oak tree isn't that costly.
Also nowadays DNA testing makes it almost impossible to be falsely executed. More people escape murder charges who rightfully deserve it than those who are falsly convicted. Lets not forget that God also has a reason for everything to happen, my mom told me one time "Your sins will catch you" and they shall. Those who do not get the death penalty or walk off free and those who are innocent from murder all get whats coming to them (Good or Bad).
 
Well, the practical rightness/wrongness of capital punishment depends on the situation, imo. That's why I talk only of one country. I am not, for instance, opposed to Israel's capital punishment 3300 years ago, which was put in place by God. Anyway, yes, my reasoning was a bit skewed in keeping with the fact that I was addressing one country. I don't think this is a thing that should be generalized to include all countries, and my knowledge covers only the US, so I spoke about what I knew.

I do not believe it is our place to punish people for crimes for the sake of punishing them for crimes. When it comes down to it, we all sin, and justice demands death. The point of a government is not to carry out justice, but to protect the people from those who would cause significant harm. If some punishment suites that purpose better than alternatives, then it is our place (in humility) to do what is best.

Concerning costs, imprisoning someone for life costs on the order of 1/2 to 1/4 what it would cost to execute them. It's a matter of hundreds of thousands vs. millions. A few feet of rope, a stool, and some time finding a big oak tree isn't that costly, but only if you ignore that it follows a decade of appeals (or however long the average is now).

DNA testing does help, yes. I don't have current information on how much it has changed things (it might take a few years yet for solid results to show up), so I can't really comment on that. Sorry.

Concerning your last point, I tend to think that logic is very dangerous. 'Good' people are not always rewarded, and 'bad' people are not always punished. Unless, of course, you refer to the final Judgement, but I was addressing life on Earth and capital punishment here, not in the afterlife. Anyway, quick verse:

Ecclesiastes 7:15
"All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a just man that perisheth in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongeth his life in his wickedness." (KJV)
 
It is not the place of a person to punish someone for a crime.

A government enacts laws to protect the people, and the breaking of those laws carry punishements with them. When the government punishes someone for breaking the law, it is not punishing the person because of the crime, but rather it is punishing because the law instructs punishment for breaking it. We have the punishments in place to deter the breaking of those laws, to not use the punishments makes the law null and void.
 
I was strongly in favor of it until I read the Bible. That completely reversed a lot of my old ways of thinking. So I am against it, for a variety of reasons. First of all, Jesus taught us that life was precious, that we should forgive, and that we should pray for and love our enemies. I don't recall him ever mentioning killing them. Things such as "vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord", come to mind here. My understanding is not perfect, so please point out any of His teachings that say otherwise. There are additional problems with capital punishment on a completely secular level. First of all, justice, at least in America is for the wealthy. Any look at the statistics will reveal some rather interesting trends towards poor minorities receiving this punishment disproportionate to other groups. Additionally, having studied psychology a number of years, I know the great weaknesses inherent in eyewitness testimony. These are a bit too lenghty to discuss, but they revolve around things such as priming effects and observer bias to name a couple. As far as deterrance, a look at crime statistics will also reveal just how "effective" capital punishment is at this. I would also like to point out that the average cost of housing one inmate, at least in the state of North Carolina, is around 33,000 dollars a year.
 
Well said Kidan, with a lot less words than I.
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I would be, if we had a better justice system that treated people a bit more fairly, while still using Common Law, and not Justinian (France + Quebec).

Quite frankly because of the disproportionalities and how some people can waltz away cuz they hired good lawyers.

I'm against it also because it's not Canadian policy anymore to be pro-capital punishment.
 
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."
-Mahatma Ghandi (sp?)

I'm against it, I think that change is a part of everybodys life, and I think that 10-50 years in prison would drastically change anybodys life, maybe for the worst or for the better...but the US has been bombing Iraq and killing several innocent people (and we get a reward)...sorry guys I'm against the Iraq war (I think it's all about oil, and no lives are wortht he obesity of a power hungry country). Anyways the death penalty is about as sickening as abortion, I beleive any chance we get we need to let as many people as possible live, because killing just leads to more and more killings.
 
The best way to deter people from committing crime in the first place is an increase in moral values--Judeo Christian values to be exact. It would not be necessary to scare people from committing crimes if they live to love God. If man acted out of love of God instead of fear of punishment, not only would his actions be more worthwhile, but he would be more vigilant in obstaining from sin and crime. Thus it is increased moralty, rather than the death penalty,which will decrease crime.

Looking at the facts that 1) increased morality, and not the lack of punishment, is what is necessary for decreased crime, 2) that every human life is sacred (since man alone is made in the image and likeness of God--see the first couple chapters of Genesis), and 3) that high security prisions in America are in fact highly secure and criminals have next to no chance of excaping, the question arrises, is it even necessary to practice the death penaly except in the case of perpetually dangerous criminal who can escape and harm others? In normal cases, is there ANY valid reason (taking into account the points I just mentioned, including the one exception) at all to kill a criminal?
 
how about this. I forgot where it was somewhere in the old testament. But Israel's enemies found this guy who talked with God and everyone who he blessed was blessed and everyone who he cursed was cursed and they took him and they were like curse these people. and he was like ok but when he opened his mouth to curse them he knew since he began the journey he couldnt and he told God to bless the israelites instead of cursing them. this happened like 3 times and he still wanted the money that the enemies of God promised him so he was like. Ok i cant curse them God wont let me but i will tell you this. If you can get them to sin and turn away from God he will curse them. So they sent down their women as prostitutes and God's anger burned against the israelites. He made this huge plague and it continued for a day or three or something like that and the leaders were like dont go with these women because God will keep the plague coming and then there was this guy who walked guy with one of the evil ladies over his shoulder and sneered at them. So another guy filled with the spirit of God grabbed a spear and followed him to his tent and killed both of them. God was so pleased by him doing this that he stopped the plague right then.

I believe God was pleased because the person once knew God and had the chance to follow but he didnt. So God chose the punishment for his sin as death and separation from God in death. There are people who do not want to know God but i think that if people are sentenced to life not death it will give them a chance to turn to God. Besides i think that giving someone the death sentence doesnt help the healing process for people at all. I dont think it gives closeure. Especially if they want to die and cant live with themselves but i think life gives them a chance to find life eternal and forgiveness of sins

And also here is a funny story from www.darwinawards.com

January 2003, Virginia) Paul Powell is not yet out of the gene pool but he will be soon, thanks to his own efforts to enable prosecutors to prove a capital murder charge against him. He had been tried and convicted of the murder of a 16-year-old girl, but his conviction was overturned by the State Appellate Court based on a lack of evidence that he had robbed or raped the woman.
However, due process was not yet done with Powell.

Thinking himself immune to further consequences, Powell wrote a gloating confession and sent it to the prosecutor's office. "Since the Virginia Supreme Court said that I can't be charged with capital murder again, I figured I would tell you the rest of what happened on January 29, 1999, to show you how stupid y'all are." He went on to explain in graphic detail exactly what had happened on the night he murdered the girl.

But Powell did not have the last laugh.

He overlooked a catch. The Court had only ruled that there was not enough evidence for the capital murder conviction, leaving open the possibility of a retrial for lesser charges, or for capital murder should new information surface. The second time around, Powell's boastful letter gave the prosecutors precisely the evidence they needed.

Powell's lawyer "portrayed his client as a bright young man." Bright as a burned-out light bulb! Powell was convicted of capital murder on January 15, 2003.
 
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