Can you be a homosexual AND a Christian?

Dark Virtue said:
I totally understand what you are saying, but listen to what "I" am saying...

People are doing exactly what you are saying is not possible.

There are Homosexuals who are practicing Christians who have NO intention of changing their lifestyles...AND they are justifying their beliefs with the bible.

I ask that you check out their webpage and tell me what they are doing wrong.
Click to expand...

I went to the website that you posted and read the section about homosexuality not being a sin.

I'm not going to take the time to refute point by point their arguments...because I do not feel it's needed. They took a few verses, pointed out the way words were translated, tweaked it to fit their desired outcome and ran with it. As I said anyone can do that. What they did not do was to refute all the other verses that point out the sinfulness of homosexuality.

They also based their argument on the false assumption that all of the Old Testament laws no longer apply. Poof every last one of them is gone.

Anyone can misquote the Bible to support their sinful desires and lifestyles and cry Christian but woe to them on judgement day.
 
Did they tweak it, or did u.
How do u know your translation is right and theirs is wrong.

Christians have always twisted the bible to what suites them, no offence but there's many translations. The bible was used to condone many things including the slavery of blacks.

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits... A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." Matthew 7:15,16,18-20
That was used to show rock music is wrong on a website. I'm still trying to figure it out. :)

Y is it so easy for people to justify their life using the bible?
And how do u know your translation is the right one, because it comes back to I'm right and your wrong. But how can that be the case if its the word of god.
Isn't there other things we should be worried about instead of if a man is dating a man, We have terrorism, rape murder and we're worried about a persons personal life.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Gandhi said:
Isn't there other things we should be worried about instead of if a man is dating a man, We have terrorism, rape murder and we're worried about a persons personal life.
Click to expand...

I am very capable of worrying about morality along with terrorism, rape, and murder(their all moral issues anyway). Don't limit your morality to just a few issues.

Gandhi said:
Did they tweak it, or did u.
How do u know your translation is right and theirs is wrong.
Click to expand...

The church from it's inception has held that homosexuality is a sinful lifestyle. Before Christ was born on earth God's people held that homosexuality was a sin. The interpretation of the old testament translation was not even brought into question by the gays on their website. It was just brushed under the rug. The teaching...oh it's just the old testament so it doesn't matter any more...doesn't hold water. As Christians we do not choose which parts of the Bible we want to accept and which ones we don't.

Gandhi said:
Y is it so easy for people to justify their life using the bible?
Click to expand...

It's not easy to justify their life using the Bible when they are trying to convince a Christian who knows the Bible well.

It is easy to justify their life using the Bible to someone that does not know the Bible well.

Read the Bible, study Greek (so you can check the interpretations if you need to), study Church history (not church history) do it all in context.

There are imposters in every walk of life Gandhi. As I have stated over and over and over, just because someone says they are a Christian does not make them one. If a person is a Christian their life will show it.
 
Last edited:
Didasko said:
lol...this is totally unbiblical. You can argue til your blue in the face but in the end...the Bible is very very clear on this issue. God definitely does care about the issue. It is foolish in the extreme to accept any of the Bible if you are not going to accept all of it.

With God it's all or none.
Click to expand...

Then I suppose you never wear clothing of mixed textiles and you never eat shellfish and you never go to the barber. All of these actions are considered "abominations" according to the Bible, of which, as you say, we should take in all.

Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
 
Didasko said:
If a person becomes a Christian it does not matter whether homosexuallity is something they are prone to or not. God will give them the strength to overcome the lifestyle. The same is true of addiction to drugs etc...
Click to expand...

But Didasko. If someone was born with an innate tendency towards a sinful lifestyle like homosexuality, does that not implicate God as the one who bestowed this tendency? To break his own rules? Surely God would not do something as cruel as this. There must be some other explanation.

How do you explain it?
 
I could live my life wearing 100% cotton polos and dockers, wondering what lobster tastes like, and look like ZZ Top.

I would if Peter hadn't had that vision recorded in Acts. That takes care of the lobster, at least.

If you could post your references to the mixed textiles and no shaving, I'd appreciate it because I'd like to look into that.
 
Leviticus 11:10-12 - But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales - whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water - you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.

Leviticus 19:19 - Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Leviticus 19:27 - Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Leviticus 19:28 - Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.

Leviticus 21:5 - Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies.

Deuteronomy 14:1 - You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead.

Jeremiah 16:6 - Both high and low will die in this land. They will not be buried or mourned, and no one will cut himself or shave his head for them.

Taken from here.

Tatoos are a biblical no no as well.
 
Leviticus 11:10-12 - But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales - whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water - you are to detest. And since you are to detest them, you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses. Anything living in the water that does not have fins and scales is to be detestable to you.
Click to expand...

Covered in Peter's vision in Acts when God told him to not call unclean what he had made clean.

Leviticus 19:19 - Keep my decrees. Do not mate different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Click to expand...

I'll do research on this after work. One could probably make the argument that this was in reference to Jews intermingling with other races, but that is mere speculation on my part at first glance.

Leviticus 19:27 - Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Leviticus 19:28 - Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.
Click to expand...

Both in reference to the mourning practices of non-Jewish people of the age; an argument could be made that the spirit of this law is that we should mourn properly, and one of the ways to do that is to not adopt pagan practices.

Leviticus 21:5 - Priests must not shave their heads or shave off the edges of their beards or cut their bodies.
Click to expand...

I'm not clergy, but this is in reference to the same practices.

Deuteronomy 14:1 - You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead.
Click to expand...

Same as previous response on the topic.

Jeremiah 16:6 - Both high and low will die in this land. They will not be buried or mourned, and no one will cut himself or shave his head for them.
Click to expand...

Ditto.

However, it is dangerous to interpret liberally any part of the Bible. I'll see if I can provide a more complete answer after researching it.

EDIT: Didn't have to wait until after work for the explication of Lev 19:19. Matthew Henry already did it for me.

The sowing of mingled corn and the wearing of linsey-woolsey garments are forbidden, either as superstitious customs of the heathen or to intimate how careful they should be not to mingle themselves with the heathen nor to weave any of the usages of the Gentiles into God’s ordinances. Ainsworth suggests that it was to lead Israel to the simplicity and sincerity of religion, and to all the parts and doctrines of the law and gospel in their distinct kinds.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I think, that the base idea if they believe Jesus, then they will go to heaven, as that is the requirement, but they will have to face up when they realize they were wrong... :confused:
 
And yet those verses are in the Bible. Why are you required to obey other teachings in the text, but not these? These seem very clear to me: "you must not eat their meat and you must detest their carcasses," for instance. Is this not the word of God? Or are some words of God more worthy than others? If so, how can you tell the difference?
 
The difference is between laws for ceremonial cleanliness, and morality and ethical commandments.

It's easy to tell that no-one is committing a sin by cutting their hair, unless they vowed to God that they wouldn't (i.e. Samson) or they were specifically commanded by God (not from this scripture because it is a ceremonial law which Jesus took care of at the cross).

You must understand that in the Old Testament, Priests were required to follow very specific ceremonial laws in order to enter the temple and offer sacrifices without being struck dead. This was because Jesus had not sacrificed Himself yet, and people were still stained with sin; no amount of ceremonial rituals can ever take care of sin. God was just being merciful.

THEN in the New Testament, Jesus sacrifices Himself for everyone's sin and if you recall the crucifixion account, the temple curtain (which separated the room where only priests were allowed to enter) was split in two, signifying the end to ceremonial laws.

I hope that makes it more clear.
 
Not to deviate even more, but I've always wondered why God decided to set forth strict laws, and then decide to do away with them later for a whole other set of laws.

Speaking from an omniscient point of view, why not just create the law ONE way and not create the need to change them?

If God knew before creating the OT laws that man wouldn't be able to follow them (and thus necessitate the need to kill Christ) why not just set forth the NT laws?
 
Christ had to die first, and while He always existed, He didn't become a man yet.

I believe only God can get more detailed than that, and He hasn't enlightened me in regards to that issue yet.
 
Ah, but WHY did Christ have to die?

Because God WANTED it that way.

Could God have necessitated a different requirement? Yes.

He simply chose not to.

Christ's literal, physical blood didn't hold any magical properties to dispel sin. It was metaphorical.
 
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Click to expand...

But if He just decided that His laws were not valid, then He would not be a fair and just God.

Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer. He paid the price, one that we could never pay. He is also the new covenant between us and God.

2 Corinthians 3:6-11 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit;* for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
Click to expand...
 
Genesis1315 said:
Jesus is our Kinsman Redeemer. He paid the price, one that we could never pay. He is also the new covenant between us and God.
Click to expand...

He paid the price emposed by who? God.

A new covenant would not have been necessary if God had not instituted a set of laws that he KNEW man could never fulfill and thus had to be changed.
 
I don't think the laws have changed though. For those who do not accept Christ, there is death for sin. It is only through Christ's salvation that we are able to have life.

off topic
DV - Did you miss an "," in your sig....
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God, who endowed us with sense, reason and intellect, had intended for us to forgo their use"
 
If the laws haven't changed then why don't follow the instructions set forth in the OT?

SOMETHING had to change, no?

(And grammar check says my quote is fine! :p )
 
Dark Virtue said:
Not to deviate even more, but I've always wondered why God decided to set forth strict laws, and then decide to do away with them later for a whole other set of laws.
Click to expand...

The strict laws were set up to show us our weakness. We cannot live by the old testament laws. They are there to show us the need for God's grace. If the laws are easy...no need for grace. We are imperfect sinners and the strict laws of the OT show us that. The new covenant through Christ is a gift of grace from God. His chosen way of showing mercy to us.

It really makes me wonder though how someone who claims to have been a Christian would not understand this part of God's plan and the need for forgiveness...

Your right though DV God could have chosen a different way if he had wanted to...he is God after all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top