Big questions on my mind..

[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Feb. 04 2004,3:48)]...I really don't get how you can be happy living your life as cheerleader for someone you don't really understand, whose motivations you are unsure of and whom you've never met or spoken with! Yike!
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I've found that a complacent or apathetic view often helps me personally understand the ways of God, maybe it'll help you.

Are you thankful to be alive?  There are two answers to this; yes or no.  If you answer yes, then you should clearly would like to know who to thank.  If no, then why in the world do you care about motivations of a god to create you?  Why would you care about anything, because life would have absolutely no meaning or preciousness to you; you may as well go kill yourself, because it's going to happen eventually (don't misinterpret this as a suggestion).

If you are reading this sentence, it is because you are thankful to be alive.  If you aren't reading this, you don't care at all for life and killed yourself, as said in the previous paragraph.  Now, who to thank?  Let's assume you are an atheist.  As an atheist, there is no God for you to thank, so clearly you would be thankful towards your parents and the big bang (or whatever scientific babble you believe in).  Because the big bang isn't an animate object (or even an object, I guess), there can't possibly be a reason to give thanks to it.  This leaves your parents as thank-receivers.

How thankful should you be to your parents?  Well, let's look at what all they have done for you.  They conceived you, they nurtured you in your youth, they taught you as you grew, and they, quite frankly, raised you into the person you are today.  Just look at how much work they put into your life, how many years of service they gave you.  That still isn't as deep as I'd like to go.  Consider how much time they spent solely for you; how many hours at work you cost them for food, clothing, and shelter; how many months your weight burdened your mother's back.  You were quite a chore, so don't you think they do deserve your thanks?  Now, let's take a leap from this God-less view back into the real world, God's world.

When I think about all that God has done (and, in my honest opinion how much he hasn't done) I can't think of anything but how awesome he really is; how totally deserving he is of the meek offering that is my thanks.  I have no clue what his motives were, I just know that I exist, and I would not exist if he were not the loving God he is.  What else matters?  I have never spoken to him in human standards, nor have I even met him, but why does that matter?  I have never met Edison (in case you don't know who he is, he is the reason the technology we know today exists, all because of a little lightbulb), but I'm thankful for all the work he has done for the world.  Do you consider this thankfulness misplaced, because I don't know his motives and never met him?  

It gets even better!  My thankfulness grows exponentially for God as I see new reasons to thank other humans.  Consider the following scenario: you find a cure for AIDS, and a person that has AIDS uses your cure.  He is then, in turn, very thankful for said cure.  Wouldn't that imply that he is in turn thankful for the source of the cure, you?  Now, let's go up one more step.  God created you.  You created a cure for AIDS.  Your cure heals someone.  That someone is thankful for the cure, which means he is thankful for you.  You wouldn't exist if it weren't for God, so it is only right that the now AIDS-less person is in turn thankful for God.

I'll gladly be a cheerleader of God.

El Jefe de Nadie
spooky wooky wooky:D
 
I can now see how a laissez-faire attitude helps you glorify God, El Jefe - thanks.

Okay now, for people with an eye for critical distinction how do YOU justify it to yourself?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Feb. 04 2004,3:48)]So, what you're saying is that it's okay - because it's God, and only because it's God? I also notice a lot of traffic from people saying I couldn't possibly understand, without trying to explain why they feel fulfilled living as part of a clique! I'll never understand unless anyone explains. And I really don't get how you can be happy living your life as cheerleader for someone you don't really understand, whose motivations you are unsure of and whom you've never met or spoken with! Yike!
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It's not so much that, but rather I'm happy living my life as a cheerleader for God, because He first loved me.

Yes, I don't often know His motivations, I don't often understand why I have to go through what I do, but I know that He is there with me, helping me, guiding me.

It's not that I'm here to do His whims, but rather, I'm happy to praise Him, because of all that He has given me.


In Asartu, the Asgard often praised Odin. Called him wise and powerful and such. Now why did they do that? Because he was the king? Because he was wise and powerful and kind? Because he deserved to be called that due to his works? In the same vien, Yawheh deserves praise and worship because of His works.
 
The main thing I know of Yahweh is his primary requirement that his adherents believe:

1. That they are personally worthless.
2. That they cannot hope to improve their worth.
3. That they are required to dedicate their lives and afterlives to his glorification.
4. That they are required to refute the beliefs of others, and deny the existence (let alone the puissance) of all other Gods.

Frankly, these are not positive traits. These are the kinds of traits one experiences in the Kindergarten sandbox, not from a supposedly all wise and benevolent diety.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1. That they are personally worthless.
2. That they cannot hope to improve their worth.
3. That they are required to dedicate their lives and afterlives to his glorification.
4. That they are required to refute the beliefs of others, and deny the existence (let alone the puissance) of all other Gods.
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its negeative since u set in that way let me try and put it in a good sense
1. We are worthless since God is supremely powerful. its like the sun compared to an ant. the ant is worthless.
2. We cant improve our lives Spiritually.
3. in any religeon ur devoting yourself to it and if it beleives in afterlife well then u dedicate urself to it.
4. yeah we do. if we accept other beliefs then we arent honoring our original belief.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Feb. 05 2004,11:36)]The main thing I know of Yahweh is his primary requirement that his adherents believe:

1. That they are personally worthless.
2. That they cannot hope to improve their worth.
3. That they are required to dedicate their lives and afterlives to his glorification.
4. That they are required to refute the beliefs of others, and deny the existence (let alone the puissance) of all other Gods.

Frankly, these are not positive traits. These are the kinds of traits one experiences in the Kindergarten sandbox, not from a supposedly all wise and benevolent diety.
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1) Not worthless. Unworthy. We are not worthless beings, God holds us in great regard. Yet at the same time we are unworthy of the grace that He has given us.

2) It's not a matter of not being able to imporve our worth, it's just that anything we do, is blemished by our flawed nature. We cannot acheive perfection. Perfection is a gift we're endowed with by grace.

3) and? Isn't the creator worthy of glory?

4) Refute the beliefs: Yes, for there is only 1 way to Heaven, and that is through Jesus Christ.
Deny the existance of other gods: Not really. These things exist. but they are no more a supreme diety than we are.
 
Eril Born leader, you may be, i am i dont feel right following the run of the mill, i rather beat my own path

The question is do you beat your Path for others to follow you that will leave a lasting impression on the world, or do you just want to lead them to whatever end it may be.

The only "purpose" i know for my self is that i am going to be a teacher of the Word of God, either in Youth ministry or Preaching.

How did i figure this out, it wasnt a book, or a divine vision. Really i thought about WHAT do i LOVE, what gets my passion and my heart, and that was it. Yes icould do something with computers, i could be a doctor or a lawyer or even a trash guy if i wanted to, but they would all be fleeting loves and just a fling, but where my passion lies is where my heart desire is, and your heart desires what God wants, (atleast mine does i dont know if you are a Christian or not some Christians dont care too).

Think of What would make you happy, 50 years from now would you be happy waking up and have been doing the same thing EVERDAY beginning today. if that something is a YES, and it doesnt Go against your moral beliefs, in whatever religion you are, then isay go for it.
 
Read my article.. I knew I wrote for a reason:
biggrin.gif


http://www.challengenet.net/staticp....4014999
 
Mmmmm... SPAM! Not only that, but your article is so full of unsupported arguments that it's a wonder the paragraphs don't collapse onto each other! Was it ever supposed to convince someone who currently disbelieves?
 
Kidan,

The Havamal says that when you give a gift you should be careful that it's not too big. It is better to give nothing than to give too much. This is because if you give somebody a huge gift that they can never match or repay in a million years, then you create a huge obligation between them and you. Most human beings will naturally shy away from such a huge Karmic debt.

So to answer your points in order...

1.Worthless or unworthy - my point about the obligation that Yahweh assumes I should accept holds true.

2.Perfection is an unattainable goal. Even the Gods aren't perfect. It is a ridiculous standard to hold in front of your believers - especially when (if your mythos is to be believed) you are solely responsible for any flaws in them.

3. Of course the creator is worthy of glory. Is he worthy of every single soul dedicating their entire existence to his glory? Well, if that's all there is to it, then Creation isn't that big a deal is it? What's the point? Just so Yahweh can whack a chorus pedal onto his self-congratulation?

4. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't I supposed to be delusionally worshipping Satan and his minions? Isn't anyone who doesn't prefer your particular brand of Christianity supposed to be damned straight to the hottest corner of the pit? If you're saying that Christianity actually does allow for the existence of other Gods as entities seperate from the Christian Mythos, then that's the first time I've heard of it!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Feb. 06 2004,12:42)]Mmmmm... SPAM! Not only that, but your article is so full of unsupported arguments that it's a wonder the paragraphs don't collapse onto each other! Was it ever supposed to convince someone who currently disbelieves?
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I just tell the truth. That's all the apostles did was tell the story, likewise that is all I do.

I don't make arguments, I tell facts... you are going to have to get used to that about me.
wink.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Feb. 05 2004,7:50)]If you're saying that Christianity actually does allow for the existence of other Gods as entities seperate from the Christian Mythos, then that's the first time I've heard of it!
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Watch the punctuation...Kidan was talking about gods, not Gods. A god is anything you put at the very top of your life...if you're an athiest, then your god is probably yourself or your computer or something like that. But there is only one God. Of course we recognize other gods, that's because non-Christians don't have God at the front of their lives. But as far as other Gods, like the Hindu ones and such, they don't exist...so to quote Jerry Seinfeld, good luck with aaaallll that.
 
James, I would rather say that you tell the truth as you believe it. But the truth is a three-edged sword, and each is as sharp as the other.

Mahfrot:

God
A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
A very handsome man.
A powerful ruler or despot.
 
no mahfrot.  as Eon pointed out, the classical definition of gods includes
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
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These beings, are not supreme dieties.  They are not truly worthy of worship.  but they exist.  Fallen angels, angelic happenstance, whatever caused the stories to come into being doesn't matter, these spirits do exist, they are real, they do have power.   Yet they are flawed created beings the same as us.


Eon -- See that's why I don't believe in Karma. Such silly rules about gifts....
biggrin.gif


1). Grace and salvation are a small gift. It's merely a relationship. To use yer Hindu example, it's as if someone is reaching down the caste system and accepting a lower caste as a friend.

2). my God is perfect, my Saviour is perfect. It is absolutely possible to acheive perfection. It's the fact that our imperfections are covered by grace.

3) there's a difference between fawning sycophants and giving someone glory. Just because I worship and give glory to God does not mean that I see/hear/do nothing else. I would be hard pressed to feed my family merely by singing praise and worship songs.

4) my Bible tells me other gods are out there. Baal, Balaam, and a whole host of others are actually listed, why should not a whole host of others that the writers did not have direct influence with. Yet my Bible also tells me that these spirit beings are not worthy of worship. Do I believe these beings are actually deities? No. Do I believe these beings are worthy of worship? Definitly not. In fact I believe that as a Christian I have power over them, through the blood of Christ.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Feb. 05 2004,5:32)]Eril Born leader, you may be, i am i dont feel right following the run of the mill, i rather beat my own path

The question is do you beat your Path for others to follow you that will leave a lasting impression on the world, or do you just want to lead them to whatever end it may be.

The only "purpose" i know for my self is that i am going to be a teacher of the Word of God, either in Youth ministry or Preaching.

How did i figure this out, it wasnt a book, or a divine vision. Really i thought about WHAT do i LOVE, what gets my passion and my heart, and that was it. Yes icould do something with computers, i could be a doctor or a lawyer or even a trash guy if i wanted to, but they would all be fleeting loves and just a fling, but where my passion lies is where my heart desire is, and your heart desires what God wants, (atleast mine does i dont know if you are a Christian or not some Christians dont care too).

Think of What would make you happy, 50 years from now would you be happy waking up and have been doing the same thing EVERDAY beginning today. if that something is a YES, and it doesnt Go against your moral beliefs, in whatever religion you are, then isay go for it.
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I am creating a path and it is there for others to follow, they are all welcome to follow in my foot steps but I am not here to force my influence on them. I share my ideas and philosophies with anyone who cares to listen. I have never asked anyone to follow me, they do it on their own freewill. I am an effective leader because I treat those who follow me as equals, I am more or less just the sound, sturdy, and influential base for their accomplismeants to build off of.

I am glad that you have found your purpose for life. That must be wonderful waking up in the mornig knowing what you want to do with your life. To answer the question "what do I want to do with my life?" is not easy for me. I have lost sight of my childhood fantasies, things that once seemed alluring to me have lost that quality. I am struggling to find things that interest me. I will often just do things not because I enjoy them but because I can do them and I like the praise I recieve when I have completed a succesful job. Thats why I have just set little purposes for myself to accomplish until I can finally find what my true purpose is.

And to answer the question of what religion I follow, if we were going to be real strict, I would have to say none, or at least none that you know of, I more or less follow my own religion. Many of my beliefs are from the Christian faith but I do not share all the Christians beliefs. But I still pray to God, or the supernatural being/force, that I can feel, that brings me peace, when I seek its advice.

These are my beliefs do not persecute or convert me, if I ever want to become totally Christian or any other religion it will be because I chose to, not because you wanted me to.
 
fair enough

but know that waking up everday knowing where you want to be 10 yrs from now and getting there has alot of furstrations, like i only have 1 sem of school done of like 5.5yrs worth.... so 5 yrs left, PLUS there is the whole girl problem that you can toss in, and the fact that i am now home from school for the sem, and am getting a job, and have things i want to do, sometimes i wish i was like my brother

No idea what he wants to do, thus he does nothing.
 
LoJ,

Don't fool yourself bro. After college it doesn't get any easier. You may get the degree, get the job, get a wife, but that will bring on a whole set of new issues you have to work through. purchasing a house, paying bills, do you want to have kids, if so, how many, and how far apart do you want them....it goes on and on till we die I think...or atleast till we retire. Life is a journey that we make and we can either wake up each morning and try our hardest to live our lives for God that day, or we can wake up and not try at all and live our lives for the world. Some days, the choice is harder than it should be.


Erillidon,
If you don't mind me prying, what are the Christian beliefs that you do not agree with and why don't you agree with them?

Cory
 
Karma, who said anything about Karma?

The Havamal isn't even slightly Buddhist. And that rule about gifts is simply a dynamic of the universe that we all live with.
 
eon-- you did.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Most human beings will naturally shy away from such a huge Karmic debt.
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I've personally never read the Havamal, and honeslty hadn't heard of it before, and with a reference to Karmic debt, I assumed it was a hindu/budhist writing.

Yet while we all live with this natural tendency to shy away from huge gifts, that in no way precludes God from giving great gifts.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Feb. 06 2004,1:08)]James, I would rather say that you tell the truth as you believe it. But the truth is a three-edged sword, and each is as sharp as the other.
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That doesn't make any sense to me...
rock.gif
 
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