Bible topic?

[Dark Virtue]

Yes, I have read the entire bible several times over.

Now...how could God allow even the SLIGHTEST error in the Bible? In ANY version of it? Why would He do such a thing? Wouldn't that discredit the Bible as INERRANT?

 

[SLNT_FIR]

same idea as "Why hasn't God made everything perfect?" you can. it's like saying, how come the United States can stand with a error in the Constitution? you can. AND you are not really led by the Holy Spirit while you read. you shut the door. you don't allow him to help.

"through god all things are possible"

"if god is your partner, make your goals big"

 

[Marcylene]

God is the Word. John 1:1

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began. Titus 1:2

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: II Timothy 3:16

Here is one of the "so-called" contradictions:

How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?
SA2 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
SA2 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:

Very plainly, Michal did not birth any children of her own. However, she did raise five sons for Adriel. I am ashamed to admit, not everything is quite that plain from D.V.'s contradiction sites. Nevertheless, I will go back to the first three verses that I quoted. When in doubt, it is God's Word that stands, not my lack of understanding with my finite mind. The enemy tried to deceive a Heavenly host of angels, and he is so beguiling that 1/3 of those angels fell with him. In the Garden of Eden, what was the root of the problem? Casting doubt on God's Word. It is an age old problem set forth before the world was created!

Compare
I Peter 2:13, Matthew 22:21
versus
Acts 5:29
(It is a shame someone has spent so much time in their Bible trying to refute God. Sadly, perhaps more than some Christians spend reading the Word of God. I also find it sorrowful that from that point, most people simply parrot what these guys have found rather than searching the Scriptures for themselves. We will Spiritually starve without the Daily Bread of God's Word, and then be in danger of falling for any false doctrine that comes along.)
In those last verses the Bible is simply saying what we all know. We are to obey the law, our parents, our husbands, UNLESS what they are telling us goes against what God says in His Word. And I am to believe these guys are logical thinkers?

I want to see if I can search out the answers to the "so-called" contradictions first. I did find this site and when you click on one of the questions, it suggests books on the subject. I am very skeptical that I will be able to answer all the questions and intend to seek help with answers for the more difficult questions raised.

http://www.christiananswers.net/menu-at1.html#contradictions

 

[Dark Virtue]

Marcy, take a look at the contradiction I posed to SA.

That's a good foundational one to start with.

When you look at it, keep my last post in mind:

Quote[/b] ]Now...how could God allow even the SLIGHTEST error in the Bible? In ANY version of it? Why would He do such a thing? Wouldn't that discredit the Bible as INERRANT?

 

[SLNT_FIR]

ok. so what is that contradiction's status? answered? half answered? not answered whatsover? anyway, tell me and while you're waiting for me, then post us sommore. we'll be happy to answer your questions.

 

[Dark Virtue]

The links I posted earlier have more than enough to keep you busy.

And your response to my contradiction would be "not answered whatsoever". Read my previous posts to see why.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

okee.

 

[Marcylene]

The B-I-B-L-E, Yes, that's the book for me!  I stand alone on the Word of God!  The B-I-B-L-Eeee  BIBLE!!!

Quote[/b] ]Voltaire, atheist, French author, humanist, rationalist (1694 - 1778), held up a copy of the Bible in the air and smugly proclaimed, "In 100 years this book will be forgotten and eliminated...". Shortly after his death, Voltaires private residence became the headquarters of the Geneva Bible Society and became a major distribution hub for the very Bible he assigned to extinction.

Men do not reject the Bible because it contradicts itself, but because it contradicts them.

B.I.B.L.E. - Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth

A new Christian had been attending Church services for a good while, and the pastor noticed that he had a rather confused look on his face during the sermons. After a message one Sunday, the preacher asked the gentleman if there was a problem. The new Christian showed the pastor his Bible and stated that he just couldn't understand it. After one glance at the Bible the pastor knew why: it was cut all to pieces! Words, phrases, and even entire verses were cut completely out! The pastor asked in shock, "Why, man, what have you done to your Bible?" "Well," replied the Christian, "as I listened to your messages, I just cut out the words that you said were wrong! This is what I have left!"

Someone asked Luther, "Do you feel that you've been forgiven?"
He answered, "No, but I'm as sure As there's a God in Heaven!"
For feelings come and feelings go,
And feelings are deceiving.
My warrant is the word of God;
Naught else is worth believing.
Though all my heart should feel condemned
For want of some sweet token,
There is One greater than my heart
Whose word cannot be broken.
I'll trust in God's unchanging word
Till soul and body sever;
For though all things shall pass away,
His word shall stand forever."


Ohh, man!  This has been no easy task!  It has been down right exasperating to be perfectly honest.  There are more sites refuting the Word of God than defending it, in this area of contradiction.  When I think I have a good site discovered, someone who would agree with me that there are no errors, a site that claims the Bible infallible...they want to say there is copyist error instead of admitting they do not know.  For me, and error is an error!  And yes, D.V., as I have stated before, take out a single dot and it is in error.  Sadly, and most frustratingly, there are avid Bible scholars that do not stand on the Bibles inerrancy.  
Now some 'so-called" contradictions, as I stated in a previous post, are easy to understand at a glance.  However, not all are so transparent.  On certain issues for example: Was Moses meek?  I say they are grasping at straws.  Yes, he may have failed a time or two, but he was.  God being a God of War, Love, Peace, and any so-called contradictions to His character, let me simply say, He is EVERYTHING!  Here are a couple of sites that seem okay.  I have emailed a pastor for additional help.  

http://www.comereason.org/bibl_cntr/default.asp

Bottom line?  The Bible is the Word of God.  It is sadly not a popular stance today, but there are no errors!  I do not have all the answers, truly I do well for daily study on keeping myself right, forget the amount of angels that can dance on a pin!  My understanding may be in error, but not the Word of God.  I will always give Him the benefit of the doubt and trust Him even with my lack of understanding.  He loves me and will not lead me astray.  That rings true for all, believers and unbelievers alike.  

The man who walks with God always arrives at his destination.  -Dr. Schapp

*edited* copyist error man found on linky
off with the linky

 

[Dark Virtue]

As I have said from the beginning, many of the contradictions on the lists I provided are easily explainable. HOWEVER, there are many that are not.

I chose the particular verses for SA's challenge because it comes down to one thing: COPYIST ERROR. What the heck? If the Bible is the INFALLIBLE word of God, why would He allow a copyist to make an error? Weren't these men doing GOD's will? Weren't they supposedly divinely inspired and guided in their undertaking?

This is a SERIOUS blow to the foundation of Biblical Inerrancy.

I suggest you take a long, hard look at the verses in question and come to a LOGICAL conclusion. Don't shut your eyes and hope it goes away. It won't.

However, if there is another logical explanation that would STILL proclaim the Bible as inerrant whilst including things such as copyist errors, I would love to hear it.

Keep in mind that INERRANT means FREE FROM ERRORS. Not ONE, SINGLE SOLITARY ERROR OF ANY KIND.

Let's assume for just a second that you concede that there ARE errors of one kind or another in the bible and chalk it up to errors of Men. Would you still view the bible in the same light, knowing that it is no longer inerrant?

 

[Marcylene]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Nov. 14 2004,9:18)]As I have said from the beginning, many of the contradictions on the lists I provided are easily explainable.  HOWEVER, there are many that are not.

I have somehow overlooked you ever saying that!  oh, uh ugh!  Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am venturing to say that you have never stated that! Nevertheless, I am thankful that you can see that now!  whew!  I see so many of the ones who are contradicting the Bible as parrots!  Touche!  I know what you are about to say and you are right!  Been there, done that!  A good preacher encourages us not to be that way.  A bad or dishonest/false prophet, on the other hand, does not want us to open our Bibles in order for his deceit to continue!  He wants mimicking, mocking, mindless robots!  

Quote[/b] ]I chose the particular verses for SA's challenge because it comes down to one thing:  COPYIST ERROR.  What the heck?  If the Bible is the INFALLIBLE word of God, why would He allow a copyist to make an error?  Weren't these men doing GOD's will?  Weren't they supposedly divinely inspired and guided in their undertaking?

Do you ever listen to me?  Do you read a single, solitary word I type?  Ohhh, please, do not answer that loaded question!  I have told you, if the Bible has error, get rid of it!  I have shown the errors of other versions.  I think it is wonderful to note here that the Bible contradiction gang hangs on tightly to the KJV, they don't bother with the tampered versions!  I just cannot see that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God cannot get the Bible to me as He would want.  For me personally, to think otherwise is to have a God-in-the-Box.  I have stated this fact many times.  Trusting in the Bible as the foundational truth...why would we believe otherwise?  Who would we have to believe in otherwise?  Where would we go for 100% truth otherwise?

And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.  Revelation 19:6

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?  Psalm 139:7

This verse continues on to tell me nowhere, this implies His omnipresence.

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it.  Psalm 139:6  omniscience

We are talking about God who is the Word bringing us the Word.  Copyist error, my eye!  I wish they would have the guts to say that they did not know the answer rather than to try and shed doubt on God's Word!  

Quote[/b] ]I suggest you take a long, hard look at the verses in question and come to a LOGICAL conclusion.  Don't shut your eyes and hope it goes away.  It won't.

Thank you for sharing what you truly think of me!  I am out to deceive you, myself, or anyone else?  Oh, yea, you said earlier this week, in essence, Christian's are idiots!  

Quote[/b] ]However, if there is another logical explanation that would STILL proclaim the Bible as inherent whilst including things such as copyist errors, I would love to hear it.

Ohhh, I love you so very much!  Thank you kindly sir!  *blush*  An explanation that will have the Bible inherent while it has errors?  hmmmm, now you think I am down right retarded?  That is an impossible misnomer!  Not to mention completely unnecessary!  I may be unable to explain it, the whole world may stumble at it, but THERE ARE NO ERRORS!  THERE NEVER WERE ERRORS!  Here, you said it best:

Quote[/b] ]Keep in mind that INHERENT means FREE FROM ERRORS.  Not ONE, SINGLE SOLITARY ERROR OF ANY KIND.

Quote[/b] ]Let's assume for just a second that you concede that there ARE errors of one kind or another in the bible and chalk it up to errors of Men.  Would you still view the bible in the same light, knowing that it is no longer inherent?

NO SIReeeee!  Keep in mind, the very same verses that I quoted the last time I posted in this thread, and I have stated in other threads, it is true, or it is false.  Copyist error is a dangerous middle of the road, fence straddling, cowardly, lily livered cop-out!

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.  Revelation 3:16

hmmm, I think He means vomit!  Projectile vomiting at that!

*tsk* * tsk* * tsk* - In my opinion, this is a satisfactory explanation for the hare chewing cud!  A beautiful book filled with delights and treasures, finer than gold and they parrot this stuff!  *sheesh* I would venture to say if the Bible inherency "false prophets" would read and study rather than believe their priest, they just might get saved!

Psalm 119 a Bible lovers haven:
For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven." (v. 89)

"Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded them for ever." (v. 152)

"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth forever." (v. 160)

The more you know, the more you realize you have much to learn

Quote[/b] ]QUESTION: What about a contradiction that can't be successfully explained?

   ANSWER: You will have to accept the perfection of the Authorized Version by faith.

   EXPLANATION: Many years ago the phone in my kitchen rang. On the line was a young man who was a student in a class I was teaching in a nearby Bible College.
   He said that his pastor had showed him a contradiction in the King James Bible. (Great "man of faith.") He asked if I could explain it. As he began to tell me the contradiction, I , being familiar with the argument, finished quoting it.
   "Oh, you know about it then?" he asked.
   "Sure," I replied.
   "What's the answer?" he urged expectantly.
   "I don't know," I answered, knowing what I had just done to his faith in me. (In me, that is.)
   I explained my reply to him as I will now explain it to you.
   NO ONE can have ALL of the answers. There are two reasons for this.
   First, if I or any other defender of the Authorized Version had ALL of the answers, we would be GOD. But there are innumerable differences between our infinite GOD and His finite creatures. Thus, although some can have many answers, and a few can have a great many answers, no one can have ALL of the answers.
   Second, and most importantly, if we could get ALL of our questions answered then concerning the Bible issue, we would be walking by sight not by faith. (Hebrews 11:6, II Corinthians 5:7)
   I believe there will always have to be some questions which remain unexplainable by our human reason. This would make our FINAL judgment on the infallibility of the Bible contingent on the reliability of God's statements such as Psalm 12:6,7 and Matthew 24:35 instead of the education and intellect of our favorite "defenders of the faith."
   Of course, the proponent of the Authorized Version feels a little vulnerable with this conclusion. Knowing that our antagonists will be quick to exploit what they perceive as a hole in our armor. BUT a resort to "faith" as our final and "last ditch" defense is not as inconsistent or precarious as it first might seem.
   Not inconsistent, because, as previously stated, God would rather we have faith in Him in the face of the unexplainable, as so many of the Old and New Testament saints have exhibited, than to have faith in our own human ability to "find an answer" concerning difficult passages.
   It is certainly not precarious in that it does not leave us at the mercy of our vindictive opponents. For believing in the perfection of a Book which we can hold in our hands is surely not as vulnerable as a professed faith in the perfection of some lost originals.
   The reason most critics are so vehement about the infallibility of the originals is because they know that the originals can NEVER be produced, so their faith can never be tried or upended.
   We are willing, on the other hand, to take the abuse from our "self conceited brethren" and give answers for our reasonable faith in a tangible Book rather than in an idealistic original. We need not apologize.

I had a good site that explained that the verses you gave SA, the stalls had 10 sections they were simply counted differently between the two verses.  I cannot find the site!  I have looked for hours!  It was one of the only that did not have copyist error junk contained therein.  At any rate, the last link is good and the quote I derived from it.  I can live with that!..for I know tis true!

Okay, Honestly, how can you listen when I talk to much?  I understand.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Quote[/b] (Marcylene @ Nov. 14 2004,1:17)]

Quote[/b] ]I have somehow overlooked you ever saying that! oh, uh ugh! Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am venturing to say that you have never stated that! Nevertheless, I am thankful that you can see that now! whew! I see so many of the ones who are contradicting the Bible as parrots! Touche! I know what you are about to say and you are right! Been there, done that! A good preacher encourages us not to be that way. A bad or dishonest/false prophet, on the other hand, does not want us to open our Bibles in order for his deceit to continue! He wants mimicking, mocking, mindless robots!

BELIEVE ME, I make sure I state that each and every time I bring up the topic of Bible contradictions. Feel free to reread this thread or any other concerning the topic. You will see.

Quote[/b] ]Do you ever listen to me? Do you read a single, solitary word I type? Ohhh, please, do not answer that loaded question! I have told you, if the Bible has error, get rid of it! I have shown the errors of other versions. I think it is wonderful to note here that the Bible contradiction gang hangs on tightly to the KJV, they don't bother with the tampered versions! I just cannot see that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God cannot get the Bible to me as He would want. For me personally, to think otherwise is to have a God-in-the-Box. I have stated this fact many times. Trusting in the Bible as the foundational truth...why would we believe otherwise? Who would we have to believe in otherwise? Where would we go for 100% truth otherwise?

I know, I know...I do pay attention...however, you never really answer the second part of the question. That being, if you find the bible is, indeed, fallible what will that mean to you? Will it change how you feel about the Bible? God? Christianity in general?

Quote[/b] ]I just cannot see that an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God cannot get the Bible to me as He would want.

This is PRECISELY why I started the thread on Christ as Author. If the Bible is so important, why didn't Christ author it? Why didn't God write it as He did the commandments?

Quote[/b] ]We are talking about God who is the Word bringing us the Word. Copyist error, my eye! I wish they would have the guts to say that they did not know the answer rather than to try and shed doubt on God's Word!

There is no answer to know here. There are simply two DIFFERENT numbers in the Bible regarding the very same thing. Unfortunately, this isn't the only instance of supposed "copyist" errors. There are plenty more on the list, did you know that? I'll post a few more, time willing.

Quote[/b] ]Thank you for sharing what you truly think of me! I am out to deceive you, myself, or anyone else? Oh, yea, you said earlier this week, in essence, Christian's are idiots!

Are you SURE you're not taking that quote out of context? Are you SURE sarcasm wasn't involved? You may want to look at that post again.

Quote[/b] ]Ohhh, I love you so very much! Thank you kindly sir! *blush* An explanation that will have the Bible inherent while it has errors? hmmmm, now you think I am down right retarded? That is an impossible misnomer! Not to mention completely unnecessary! I may be unable to explain it, the whole world may stumble at it, but THERE ARE NO ERRORS! THERE NEVER WERE ERRORS!

WHY are you taking this as a personal attack? It wasn't meant to be at all. You are saying there are no errors in the bible, yet you have problems solving the copyist error dilemma. You can't have it both ways. There's an error or there isn't. If you don't feel there are, or ever were, errors then please explain why. I honestly want to know.

Quote[/b] ]NO SIReeeee! Keep in mind, the very same verses that I quoted the last time I posted in this thread, and I have stated in other threads, it is true, or it is false. Copyist error is a dangerous middle of the road, fence straddling, cowardly, lily livered cop-out!

So what IS a copyist error then? What does it mean to you?

Quote[/b] ]In my opinion, this is a satisfactory explanation for the hare chewing cud! A beautiful book filled with delights and treasures, finer than gold and they parrot this stuff! *sheesh* I would venture to say if the Bible inherency "false prophets" would read and study rather than believe their priest, they just might get saved!

Doesn't the bible also say the hare has a split hoof? Or that a bat is a bird?

Quote[/b] ]QUESTION: What about a contradiction that can't be successfully explained?

ANSWER: You will have to accept the perfection of the Authorized Version by faith.

EXPLANATION: Many years ago the phone in my kitchen rang. On the line was a young man who was a student in a class I was teaching in a nearby Bible College.
He said that his pastor had showed him a contradiction in the King James Bible. (Great "man of faith.") He asked if I could explain it. As he began to tell me the contradiction, I , being familiar with the argument, finished quoting it.
"Oh, you know about it then?" he asked.
"Sure," I replied.
"What's the answer?" he urged expectantly.
"I don't know," I answered, knowing what I had just done to his faith in me. (In me, that is.)
I explained my reply to him as I will now explain it to you.
NO ONE can have ALL of the answers. There are two reasons for this.
First, if I or any other defender of the Authorized Version had ALL of the answers, we would be GOD. But there are innumerable differences between our infinite GOD and His finite creatures. Thus, although some can have many answers, and a few can have a great many answers, no one can have ALL of the answers.
Second, and most importantly, if we could get ALL of our questions answered then concerning the Bible issue, we would be walking by sight not by faith. (Hebrews 11:6, II Corinthians 5:7)
I believe there will always have to be some questions which remain unexplainable by our human reason. This would make our FINAL judgment on the infallibility of the Bible contingent on the reliability of God's statements such as Psalm 12:6,7 and Matthew 24:35 instead of the education and intellect of our favorite "defenders of the faith."
Of course, the proponent of the Authorized Version feels a little vulnerable with this conclusion. Knowing that our antagonists will be quick to exploit what they perceive as a hole in our armor. BUT a resort to "faith" as our final and "last ditch" defense is not as inconsistent or precarious as it first might seem.
Not inconsistent, because, as previously stated, God would rather we have faith in Him in the face of the unexplainable, as so many of the Old and New Testament saints have exhibited, than to have faith in our own human ability to "find an answer" concerning difficult passages.
It is certainly not precarious in that it does not leave us at the mercy of our vindictive opponents. For believing in the perfection of a Book which we can hold in our hands is surely not as vulnerable as a professed faith in the perfection of some lost originals.
The reason most critics are so vehement about the infallibility of the originals is because they know that the originals can NEVER be produced, so their faith can never be tried or upended.
We are willing, on the other hand, to take the abuse from our "self conceited brethren" and give answers for our reasonable faith in a tangible Book rather than in an idealistic original. We need not apologize.

Ok, I'm scratching my head now.

Would you mind telling me the contradiction in question?

If you don't have an answer to the contradiction, doesn't that, indeed, make it a contradiction?

Quote[/b] ]Okay, Honestly, how can you listen when I talk to much? I understand.

I am always willing to listen when someone has something worth saying.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

so what did you want? this is also a bump/keep this topic alive, cause iwanna do more research.

 

[Marcylene]

Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Nov. 14 2004,3:54)]BELIEVE ME, I make sure I state that each and every time I bring up the topic of Bible contradictions.  Feel free to reread this thread or any other concerning the topic.  You will see.

Please accept my apology for doubting you.  I will not go back and look, I will take your word on it.

Quote[/b] ]...you never really answer the second part of the question.  That being, if you find the bible is, indeed, fallible what will that mean to you?  Will it change how you feel about the Bible?  God?  Christianity in general?

I feel I do address this when I make the statement to throw it out if there are errors!  
When I doubt, or do not understand Spiritual things, as I said, I go back to the Word and know that He is the author by inspiration and has promised that His Word is settled in Heaven.  That is what I stand on, not my lack of knowledge, my feelings or emotions.  The solid, unchangeable Word!  There are no errors, period.  I may not be able to explain a "so-called" contradiction, believe me, that does not make it an error. In my honest opinion, it is simply a lack of understanding.  

Quote[/b] ]This is PRECISELY why I started the thread on Christ as Author.  If the Bible is so important, why didn't Christ author it?  Why didn't God write it as He did the Commandments?

I do not know if the Bible addresses this.  Not to my knowledge.  Jesus spoke the Word, He is the Word, when speaking to the enemy He would say, "It is written," it was Him, it was important to Him.  The Bible was so important to God He sent it to the world in fleshly form to save our very souls.

Quote[/b] ]There is no answer to know here.  There are simply two DIFFERENT numbers in the Bible regarding the very same thing.  Unfortunately, this isn't the only instance of supposed "copyist" errors.  There are plenty more on the list, did you know that?  I'll post a few more, time willing.

I am aware of that, I looked at the sites you listed earlier.  As I tried to search out a reputable, God fearing man...I kept getting linked right back to the copyist error guy.  As I have said, I do not buy into that lie.  An error is an error, rendering the Bible infallible, no matter what you want to call it...the pig/bow/pew theorem, if you will  

 God brought the Wrod to me, a gentile, as promised, and intact. There is a logical, yes, logical explanation!  
I am aggravated that I did not bookmark the one site I found with good, solid, Bible believing, non copyist error believing foundation.  I assumed there would be more to compare with him!  

Quote[/b] ]WHY are you taking this as a personal attack?  It wasn't meant to be at all.  You are saying there are no errors in the bible, yet you have problems solving the copyist error dilemma.  You can't have it both ways.  There's an error or there isn't.  If you don't feel there are, or ever were, errors then please explain why.  I honestly want to know.

I do take it personally, I know.  He is my Father, D.V., it is personal to me.
D.V., because I have a problem solving it, please, please, do not base that to mean God's Word is in error.  I am as far from a Bible scholar as you can get.  I did solve a couple of them, I am trying!  If it meant your salvation, I would never rest until I had the answers, but I know better

 I take it by faith.  I know there is an explanation.  I stand on the Bible as God's Word.  I feel assured that I will find the answers, He always gives them to me, honest.  Usually, everything He gives me requires patience!  When I find the answer you will be the first to know!  If I may sound like my lil' buddy SA, "Calling any Bible scholar knowledgeable in contradictions!!!  Please, only the one's that know the Word is infallible and eschew copyist error beliefs!"

Quote[/b] ]So what IS a copyist error then?  What does it mean to you?

That it was copied incorrectly, and some of the guys I Goggled go to extreme lengths explaining the type of error, (smeared ink, transposition, blah, blah, blah!)  I simply do not buy into it.  There is no such thing when it comes to the Bible.  There is a reasonable explanation.  The truth is in there!!!

Quote[/b] ]Doesn't the bible also say the hare has a split hoof?  Or that a bat is a bird?

I believe those are explained in detail on the link I gave earlier.  I want to add here, I am not wanting to believe a lie, nor to deceive.  I believe with all my heart, soul, mind, and Spirit that the Bible is God's perfect Word.  I have never questioned it.  While I may search for answers, it will always be Truth to live by for me.  I will cling to the old rugged cross and exchange it someday for a crown, as the song says, and as He has promised!

I do hope you will forgive me, for you may consider me a hypocrite here...I accuse your group of being parrots, but after I searched for many hours for the answers that I could not explain, and focused on only a couple, I ran across that last quote in my last post in this thread.  I will parrot that.  I will take it to heart.  I can believe what that preacher is saying and I admire his honesty.

Quote[/b] ]Ok, I'm scratching my head now.

Would you mind telling me the contradiction in question?

If you don't have an answer to the contradiction, doesn't that, indeed, make it a contradiction?

I am not certain which one that is spoken about here.  I think he is making a blanket, in general statement.
Again, the site I gave seemed to have logical answers, they sadly did not cover them all!
One of the one's in question, for me,  was the stalls and horses.  I do not have an answer at this time, I hope to gain one in one way or another.  Please have patience.  I have never questioned these things and there are many.  Some are very plain to refute, others are not so simple.  I know there is an answer in God's favor, D.V. I know it with all my heart!


Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,  
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.  
For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.  Hebrews 12:1-3

 

[Marcylene]

Nevermind linked to this thread, see previous post.

WHEW!!!!  SA, I have searched, studied, and searched some more...FINALLY, while I have not read all the answers to the alleged contradictions...after reading a couple, not once did they question the infallibility of God's Word!  Most of the sites I searched did not seem to have this fact planted firmly in their hearts!  God is big enough to get His Word to us exactly as He wished!  God cannot lie, and while these guys on further searching may not have all the answers...that is just it, if something seems a contradiction, it bears further study...for He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  He is the Living Word!  The Bible is alive!  It's all true!  All the answers are in there!  It speaks for itself!

LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.  Psalm 119:89

 

[Dark Virtue]

Thanks for the link Marcy.

Would you mind explaining to me what your definition of "infallible" means and how you use it to describe God's word?

Some of the authors seems to be speaking out of both sides of their mouth. One one hand they claim the bible is infallible and further claim that every word in it was penned with the support of God. If that is the case, then WHY are there discrepencies in the bible? They try and answer this by saying that different authors used different methods of calcuation and rounding. Excuse me, but didn't God supposedly guide the hand of these authors? If so, shouldn't they have come to the same numerical conclusion?

I disagree with their attempt to reconcile this problem. I will go into the rest when I have more time.

 

[Watcher]

Ok, I'll bite...

Regarding the contradictions posted by DV. There is not one of them that has ever held water. As an example, I will refute one, and as always, drop one, and the rest become questionable at best.

I don't have time to refute every single contradiction for you DV, however, this one in particular shows you the great lengths we go to 'find' contradictions in the Bible without truly studying what the passage says, and moreover, looking at the passage in context.

----

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

----

Alrighty then...it is common knowledge for all willing to look, that Jewish law had a provision for inheritance transfer.

Mary's father, Heli, had two daughters: Mary and the wife of Zebedee. If there were no sons, Joseph would have become son of Heli upon marriage to Mary, thus preserving the family name and inheritance. The main passages that deal with this law are: Num 7:1-11; Num 36:1-12; Lev 25:25; Dt 25:5-10.

Regarding the doctrine of inerrancy, I've discussed this with you before. The doctrine of inspiration and inerrancy hold true to the original manuscripts only. In other words, God promised that the original manuscripts would be 100% inerrant, accurate, authoritative, and true (2 Timothy 3:16-17; 2 Peter 1:20-21)

Now, the Bible has, over thousands of years, been copied thousands of times over. That being said, some copyist errors may have occured. However, it is important to remember that the biblical manuscripts we have today are in 99% agreement with each other. In other words, the manuscripts from the 2nd century agree with the manuscripts from the 15th century. So, we can have absolute confidence that the Bible we have today is almost identical to the Bible the prophets and apostles wrote over 2000 years ago.

I would also like to point out we should never default to a 'copyist error' as the alleged contradiction above may have been categorized by some. As you can see, the 'contradiction' was soundly refuted with the facts.

Again, I take you back to God's original promise which was: the original authors were inspired by the Holy Spirit as they recorded the truth, and as a consequence, those original manuscripts were inerrant and infallible.

 

[Dark Virtue]

There's no need to bring in more contradictions, stick with the ones already on the table.

You say that God's inspiration and inerrancy are only attributable to the ORIGINAL manuscripts? So what about the Bible in your hands then? Does it contain copyist errors? You admit that some may have occurred. WHY would an omnimax God allow even the slightest hint of error in His work, in ANY translation? Moreover, why isn't there just ONE English translation that can be regarded as inerrant?

You say that you shouldn't default to "copyist error" as an excuse, but look at the links Marcy posted, that is exactly what these scholars have done. So once again I ask, why would God allow translators to err on His word?

We can argue about the original manuscripts all we want, but who here can read them in their original form? How many people that claim they are Christian can read those manuscripts? 1% maybe? What about everyone else? They are at the mercy of translations...ones that should also be covered by God's inspiration and inerrancy, yet you argue that they are NOT.

So what good are original, inerrant manuscripts if the majority of Christians can't read them. Now if they COULD, that would be an interesting little miracle. Too bad that isn't the case.

 

[Marcylene]

There are no errors, period, the end! Anyone who studies the Word can find the answers. I can only refute a small portion and that is only due to error in my knowledge, not the error of the Word. I assure you, DV, God has it here exactly as He wants it to be.

The Bible says if we seek Him we will find Him. The problem with those who don't, or those who want to find errancy in God's Word boils down to one thing. Preacher once spoke about the black dog and the white fighting. The one you feed is the one that will win. We choose God or we choose the enemy. We feed our Spiritual souls or we don't. What we seek for we will find. Consider each individual a Scientist. It is what we seek for that gives us our experimental bias.

Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statues. Psalm 119:155

The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgment of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than the honey and the honeycomb.
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Who can udnerstand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Le the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer. Psalm 19: 7-14