BC - Tanking (warrior) Info Part 2


Tribe of Judah Staff Manager

I Got 490 Defense! Now What?
Awesome, you now are not risking your raid on the small chance you'll take a crit and be pushed unrecoverable in low health. Good stuff! We're assuming you are talking about raid/heroic content here. The burning question now is: What do I go for? Defense? Dodge? Parry? Block? Well, you mostly can't be critically hit now. You've probably got a nice health pool. You spam shield block and handily push crushing blows off the table while it is up. What's left? Well, avoiding damage outright is always good, and you're now in a good place in the other aspects of the tanking game. That makes stacking avoidance a Good Thing, as opposed to stacking avoidance without the 490 defense, massive health, and such. That would be a Bad Thing. Let's look at where we get avoidance from.
More Defense
The big concern people have with more defense is that it stops working after 490 defense. This is not totally true. Easily testable in game to prove it to yourself. What does stop working in some way after 490 is critical hit mitigation, which is talked about later. We do know for certain that regardless of how critical hit mitigation works, you always get the other benefits from defense no matter how much you have. That means you always get +0.04% chance to dodge, block, and parry, and you reduce the mob's hit chance by 0.04%. The chance to block is a small bit of mitigation, not actual avoidance, so we'll ignore it mostly. That means you get 0.04% dodge + 0.04% parry +0.04% crit chance, or 0.12% pure avoidance, per point of defense skill. That translates to 0.050% pure avoidance per point of defense rating (0.12% avoidance per defense skill / 2.36 defense rating per defense skill).
Dodge gives you, well, dodge. 1% dodge per 18.9 dodge rating. That divides out to 0.053% pure avoidance per point of dodge rating.
1% parry per 31.5 parry rating. That divides out to 0.032% pure avoidance per point of parry rating. You might be wondering why parry costs so much more than dodge or defense. Good question. The answer is that when you parry, your time to next autoattack is reduced by 40%. Good for threat generation, not so helpful when trying to stack avoidance.
Why are you even thinking about this? This has been gone over a million times now. Still thinking that you need 25% block chance to push crushing blows off the table when shield block is up? Miss, dodge and parry take precedence on the combat table over block. This has been explicitly verified by Blizzard. You can see it happen by putting up shield block and seeing that you still dodge, parry and get missed while the buff is up! That means that if you have 10% chance to be missed, 10% dodge, 10% parry, and 2000% block chance... the combat table will be 10% chance to be missed, 10% dodge, 10% parry, 70% block. All the extra block chance is thrown away. You need 25% combined miss, dodge, parry, and block to push crushing blows off the combat table when shield block is up. You were at this point before you even hit 490 defense, in all likelihood. There are far better things to stack, generally. Like dodge, defense, or parry! This is not to say that you should never take block rating. This is to say there are better things to take, given a choice.
So What do I Get Then?
First choice: Dodge (0.053% avoidance per rating)
Second Choice: Defense (0.050% avoidance per rating)
Third Choice: Parry (0.032% avoidance per rating)
Fourth Choice: Whatever
The primary reasoning for taking dodge, defense, even parry over other things is found here. However, stamina fits in here somewhere, too. There's no math to say that X stamina is better than Y dodge rating. There is math to talk about stamina and armour, which is here. Maybe some item with 60 stamina and 50 block rating would start to look pretty attractive compared to another with 30 stamina and 16 dodge rating. You're on your own preference for how to call it.
What about 5-man, non heroic stuff? You don't care so much about 490 defense; the mobs don't hit that hard. If you have shield slam, I'd just strap on your block value gear set and go to town (you do have a block value gear set, right?) If you don't have shield slam, well, do what seems right.

A Guide To Threat

Definitions: Threat vs Aggro, Threat Scale
We define "aggro" to be who the mob is attacking. A player has aggro, or pulls aggro, when the mob is attacking them. We define "threat" to be a numeric value that each mob has towards each player. Note that the target who has aggro is not necessarily the player with the highest threat.
To set a scale for threat, let 1 point of damage from a normal attack cause 1 point of threat, where the sense of normal will be clarified later. The threat values of some abilities are listed in the MPQs, and this 1:1 scale matches those abilities (e.g. feint, distracting shot, fade).
The Threat List
Imagine every mob as keeping a list of players and their threat values. If the mob is unaware of a player, that player will not be on the threat list. As soon as the mob becomes aware of a player, in the ways described below, they are put on the list with 0 threat. Knowing which players are on a mobs threat list and which mobs have a certain player on their threat lists is crucial in predicting a mobs behaviour.
A player can get on a mobs threat list in the following ways:
• Body Pulling, i.e. getting close enough to a mob that is out of combat.
• Body Pulling linked mobs. When you body pull a mob, youll also get onto the threat lists of all mobs that are linked to it. Note that after the pull they become unlinked; a second person attacking one of the mobs will only get on that mobs threat list after the pull.
• Buffing a player that is on the mobs threat list. That is, casting a healing spell or other buff spell.
• Direct damage or casting a debuff on the mob. Some debuffs, notably mind vision and hunters mark, wont put you on the mobs threat list.
• Bosses in-combat pulse. For most high level instance bosses, every tick (2 seconds) every player in the instance is added to the boss threat list when the boss is in combat.
• In combat proximity. Many mobs with secondary targeting or AOE abilities will add nearby players to their threat lists. For other mobs, as long as they are in combat you can stand on top of them and not get added to their threat list.
Aggro Transfer, Threat Decay
To prevent mobs rapidly swapping targets when many players have similar threat, a mob will stay on its current target unless another player has significantly higher threat. Suppose a mob has aggro on a certain player X. Then to pull aggro while in melee range, another player needs 110% of Xs threat. If the other player is outside melee range, they need 130% of Xs threat to pull aggro. This means than in general, once you have aggro it is easy to keep it, and once you lose aggro it is hard to regain it. It also stops two players attacking a mob from range and constantly swapping aggro between them, because as their threat increases, the 30% margin will be harder and harder to overcome.
Note that the 10% effect is determined only by your range, not the ability used. If you are generating threat from healing or a range ability such as Frostbolt, you will still pull aggro at 110% if you are within melee range of the mob.
In the normal course of events, threat does not decay. Once you are on a mobs threat list, youre there until its dead or you are, and your threat does not decay over time. There are of course mobs with specific abilities that reduce threat, and player abilities also, which do decrease your threat.
AOE Threat
Healing, Buffing, Power Gain Each point of healing causes 0.5 threat, forgetting threat modifiers. Overhealing doesnt cause threat. Most buff spells cast on friendly players generate a small amount of threat. Gaining Power (Mana / Energy / Rage) also causes threat in most cases, for example taking a healing potion, or gaining rage from Bloodrage, or Energy from Thistle Tea. Certain spells are exempt, for example mana from Blessing of Wisdom or a Mana Spring totem doesnt cause threat, and there is no threat from the healing gained from Siphon Life. For normal abilities, each point of Mana is 0.5 threat, Rage is 5 threat, and Energy is unknown, probably 5. In the scheme of things, threat from power gain is usually irrelevant, unless you have consistent or burst values, such as taking a mana potion or having Fel Energy running.
These forms of buffs all have infinite range; they will cause threat to all mobs on whose threat list you are on. Furthermore, the threat caused is split equally among all the affected mobs. If you are on one mobs threat list, a 1000 point heal will cause 500 threat to that mob. If 5 mobs are aware of you, the same heal will cause 100 threat on each mob.
Note that threat caused from Power Gain is not affected by threat modifiers. Gaining 1 point of Rage will give 5 threat whether you are in Battle Stance or Defensive Stance.
Threat Modifiers
Common Modifiers, Interaction Here are some of the more common threat modifiers and their values, assuming you have the maximum number of talent points in the talents mentioned:

Sat - New table is from Ciderhelm's Fortifications reference:

Ability Multipliers Percent Multiplier
Defensive Stance / Bear Form 130% (1.3) Additive
Defiance / Feral Instinct 115% (1.15) Additive
Fury/Battle Stance 80% (0.8) Multiplicative
Rogue/Cat Form Druid 80% (0.8) Multiplicative
Blessing of Salvation 70% (0.7) Multiplicative
Tranquil Air Totem 80% (0.8) Multiplicative
Druid (Subtlety) 80% (0.8) Multiplicative
Priest (Silent Resolve) 80% (0.8) Multiplicative
Mage (Frost Channelling) 90% (0.9) Multiplicative
Mage (Burning Soul) 90% (0.9) Multiplicative
Mage (Arcane Subtlety) 60% (0.6) Multiplicative
Warlock (Destructive Reach) 90% (0.9) Multiplicative
Warlock (Imp. Drain Soul) 90% (0.9) Multiplicative

As of 1.12, all threat modifiers are multiplicative, which makes them independent. Blessing of Salvation "reduces your threat by 30%", which is implemented as "multiplies your threat by 70%". Two different modifiers just multiply on each other, so Blessing of Salvation + Arcanist 8/8 + Frost Channeling would be 0.7 x 0.85 x 0.7 = 41.65% threat. The primary effect of the 1.12 change is to stop several threat modifiers combining too powerfully; for example it was possible to achieve 0% threat generation using the Fetish of the Sand Reaver.
It is useful to consider the inverse multiplier, which is the increase in damage or healing potential as a result of a threat modifier. Suppose you have Blessing of Salvation on, for a 0.7 threat modifier. Then to get 1 point of threat, you can now do 1 / 0.7 = 1.43 points of damage. In other words, the Blessing of Salvation buff allows you to do 43% more damage for the same threat. Similarly, the Rogue passive modifier allows you to do 25% more damage for 1 threat. To combine them, just multiply 1.43 * 1.25 = 79% more damage for 1 point of threat, compared to a player with no threat modifiers.
Class Abilities and Talents in Detail
(A) Warrior
Most warrior abilities add a fixed amount of threat when they land successfully. The following table gives the raw values, i.e. before the modifiers from battle stance or defensive stance, and ignores the damage done by the abilities. (Remember these are the numbers before damage)

Sunder Armor (Rank 6) 301
Heroic Strike(Rank 11) 220 (estimated)
Revenge.(Rank 8) 417
Shield Bash.(Rank 4) 230
Shield Slam (Rank 6) 307
Devastate 101
Thunder Clap +150% of damage done
Cleave (Rank 6) 130 (threat split)
Demoralizing Shout.(Rank 7) 56 (threat split)
Battle Shout(Rank 8) 69 (threat split)
Commanding Shout(Rank 1) 68 (threat split)
Spell Reflect 0
Piercing Howl 0
Concussion Blow 0

Abilities noted as having "threat split" divide the generated threat amongs the targets affected. For example, if you perform Demoralizing Shout on two mobs, each mob gets 28 threat; on three mobs, each gets 18.7; etc.
As of patch (1.11.x), the behaviour of Taunt has been buffed slightly. It now does three things:
• Taunt debuff. The mob is forced to attack you for 3 seconds. Later taunts by other players override this.
• You are given threat equal to the mob's previous aggro target, permanently. Importantly, you won't necessarily get as much threat as the highest person on the mob's list, only as much as whoever is currently tanking it.
• You gain complete aggro on the mob at the instant you taunt. Usually you would need 10% more threat to gain aggro (see section 3), but a taunt now gives you instant aggro on the mob. Of course if other people are generating significant threat on the mob, they could exceed your threat by more than 10% before the taunt debuff wears off, and will gain aggro as soon as it does. There is no limit to the amount of threat you can gain from Taunt.

While Challenging Shout and Mocking Blow have a similar forced attack debuff to Taunt, they do not give the caster threat in the same way as Taunt, just fixed amounts.

(B) Druid
The threat modifiers for Bear tanks are the same as Warriors: 130% for Bear Form and Defensive Stance, or 149.5% if you have 5/5 Defiance or Feral Instinct. As of patch 2.0.3, Druid threat generation was changed from multiplicitive to additive (as a warrior's threat.) Swipe no longer has an innate threat modifier and simply generates threat equal to its damage, multiplied by stance and talent modifiers. Maul changed to a flat 207 (Rank 7) per target (as Heroic Strike). E.g. Maul does 200 damage, so it does 200 + 207 = 407 threat raw, or 407 * 1.3 * 1.15 = 608 threat counting the bear stance + feral instinct modifiers
The Mangle ability adds an extra instant bear attack, which generates threat equal to its damage done, modified by stance and talents, as usual. (Need to find out if it has an innate threat value)
In Cat Form, there is a -20% passive threat modifier, as Rogues or Warriors in Battle or Berserker Stance have.
The Subtlety Talent is multiplicative, for 0.8 at max rank.
Growl has exactly the same behaviour as Taunt for Warriors.

(C) Rogue
Rogues have a passive -20% threat modifier, so all damage done causes 0.8 threat by default, or 0.8 * 0.7 = 0.56 threat with Blessing of Salvation.
Feint does -600 threat, or -800 threat with rank 5, from the AQ book. Note that it is affected by your threat modifiers, so that the rank 5 ability reduces only 800 * 0.8 = 640 threat by default, or 800 * 0.56 = 4448 threat with blessing of salvation. However, in every case it reduces the threat of 800 points of damage. Note that you can't feint below 0 threat.
Vanish removes you from all mobs threat lists, but if you are fighting a boss you will get back on due to the in-combat pulse every tick. However, if you are the last person alive, a vanish will cause the boss to go out of combat, so youll survive if you can achieve that feat.

(D) Paladin
Paladins receive 50% threat from healing compared to other healers. This is designed to stop them tanking instances by healing everything in sight. As a side affect, this gives them a decent advantage over other healers where healing threat is an issue.
When the Righteous Fury buff is active, Holy damage causes 1.6 threat, or 1.9 threat if you have 3/3 Improved Righteous Fury.
Holy Shield damage gives another 1.2 multiplier, for 1.9 * 1.2 = 2.28 threat per damage with talented Righteous Fury.

(E) Priest
The Silent Resolve talent gives a 0.8 multiplier to threat from spells. Shadow Affinity multiplies threat from shadow spells by 0.75. For example, with Silent Resolve and Shadow Affinity and Blessing of Wisdom, your threat from shadow spells is 0.8 * 0.7 * 0.75 = 42% of normal.
Mind Blast generates 2 threat per damage, all ranks.
Fade reduces your threat temporarily by a fixed amount - 820 at max rank, and is not affected by threat modifiers, such as Silent Resolve. This is a good thing since a priest would only have negative threat modifiers on. When the buff ends, you get the same threat back, so there is no net gain from spamming Fade you should leave it as a panic button instead. Note that you cant fade to below 0 threat.

(F) Warlock
The healing from Life Tap, Siphon Life, and Drain Life doesnt cause threat, but the application of the Siphon Life debuff causes a small amount of threat, and the damage from Drain Life counts. Most curses cause non-zero threat.
Searing pain is 2 threat per damage, all ranks.
Fel Stamina and Fel Energy do generate threat.

(G) Shaman
The talent Healing Grace is a multiplier, 0.85 at max level, which would give you 68% threat from heals with a Tranquil Air totem.
Earth Shock is 2 threat per damage, all ranks.
Each rank of Rockbiter Weapon triggers a weapon proc that is designed to give a fixed threat per second. At max rank, Rockbiter gives 72 threat per second on successful hits. If you had a 3.0 speed weapon, each successful hit (not a miss, dodge or parry) would add 3 * 72 = 216 threat.

(H) Mage
The mage talents Frost Channeling, Burning Soul and Arcane Subtlety give 0.7, 0.7 and 0.6 threat multipliers to Frost, Fire and Arcane spells respectively.

(I) Hunter
Feign Death is a complete threat wipe, as long as it isnt resisted.
Distracting shot is a flat 600 threat at max rank.

And One Other Thing...
Crits dont give you any extra threat just for being crits.
Overwriting a buff doesnt affect the threat caused. E.g. Sunder Armor causes as much threat when there are 5 debuffs as none, and player buffs cause just as much threat if the player already had one on.


New Member
Some of the priest info is wrong, Silent Resolve no longer works to reduce threat of Shadow spells and the extra threat from Mind Blast was removed many patches ago.