Baptism

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]An no matter HOW you look at it, baptism is a work. It's something you go and do.
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isn't professing Jesus as your savior something you do, and then considered a work? Would it be appropriate to mary your wife without a wedding ceremony? We commit our lives to God.
 
Master, you miss the point...

CHRIST saves us. Not us. We can't save ourselves anymore than we can live forever in these bodies.

Through CHRIST, we are saved.

Vanaze
 
Through Christ we are saved. He tells us to repent, we do so. He tells us to be baptized, we do so. If you have faith in Him, you will do what He says and not argue it, or make excuses of why not. You try to put it off, or say its insignificant, even tho the Bible says otherwise, and fall to the very temptation Satan has laid before you. He doesnt want anyone to be saved, he knows his doom is certain, and he'll do whatever he can, including attempts to pervert God's Word, to keep people from being saved.

In reference to the works, again, you do nothing at baptism aside from make a choice. It is something done to you. When you accept Christ, its a choice, when you repent, its a choice. Trying to discredit something as a mere work yet support other things that are just as much a choice and no more is thoughtless, only attempts to make excuses. Just something to think about, anyways.
 
I would respond, but I feel it's pointless, seeing how I just restate and reaffirm everything I've said previously.

Van
 
van- I agree we are saved by Christ and faith, just like we are married to our spouses by love. No wedding certificate, or wedding will make you married, but your love for eachother is what binds you. IN the same way our faith for christ saves us, and our Baptism is the nescessary outward proclamation of our faith. Just like a wedding is the outward proclamation of the marraige. Thats what I was trieng to suggest with my analogy.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]He tells us to be baptized, we do so.  If you have faith in Him, you will do what He says and not argue it, or make excuses of why not.
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yeah, good point too
 
Let me .....bake you a cake real quick //enter weird analogy//


Let's say before you're saved, you're broken in pieces. You're flour, eggs, sugar, salt, so on and so forth...Once you mix all of that properly, bake it in the oven, it IS a cake. Being "baked", I liken to being saved. It becomes a cake / you become a Christian.

No matter what you add to it afterwards, it's already a cake. You can't do anything to un-make it a cake. It is what it is. You can add icing, but it's still a cake. It's just a cake with icing.

Christ is what changes us from all of those separated ingredients into a cake.

So, Christ bakes us

Er. I mean cake saves us.

I...YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
//Exit weird analogy//
Vanaze
 
That's a good example. I do agree with that it is not essential for salvation, but it is something that helps us grow in our relationship with God.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]No matter what you add to it afterwards, it's already a cake.  You can't do anything to un-make it a cake.  It is what it is.  You can add icing, but it's still a cake.  It's just a cake with icing.
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heh, thats a wierd analogy that makes me hungry, but I don't see it fitting with christianity really well. In cake terms, I guess, not being baptized would be like leaving the deliciouse cake in the oven, and no one knows its there. dunno, the analogy just doesn't hit it really well for me like the marrage one did.
Also its like what Dr Tek simply said. God telling us to be baptized is enough to make it a necessary. Are you saying that God told us to get baptized, however its not really necessary? Do you know something that God doesn't?
 
What of the criminal on the cross of whom Jesus said, today you will be with me in a paradise. Some how, I don't think he got baptised. The reality is, there are a lot of people who are saved by the skin on their teeth on thier death bed and they have not been baptised.

I don't believe baptism is necessary for salvation. Rather, the obidient act of baptism is an outward sign of our choice to honour God. Our acts of obedience to God and his commandments directly relate to the treasures we store up in heaven.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]What of the criminal on the cross of whom Jesus said, today you will be with me in a paradise.   Some how, I don't think he got baptised.  The reality is, there are a lot of people who are saved by the skin on their teeth on thier death bed and they have not been baptised.
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uh oh dude, your arguement was given on post #666. scaaaary stuff hehe. Anyway I think God will allow for exceptions, I know not everyone can be baptized, but God  can look into our hearts. Earlier I posted:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]  
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
I'd also like to point you into the direction of the thief who hung on the cross next to Christ.  Do you think he had time to be baptized?  No.  Yet Christ Himself said the thief would be in paradise with him.
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nice argument, never thought of that. However, Baptism symbolizes the death of our old self with Christ. Maybe the thief literally dieng with Christ took the place of a symbolic death? I'm not trying to speak as if I"m an expert or something....
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God is just, and knows if someone is not able to become baptized. Does that mean its not necessary? If you want to tell people that baptism is not necessary, and explain to God at the end of time why you told people that, I guess its up to you. What about the person who becomes saved, but then doesn't become baptized, even though he has the chance, because its not "required" for salvation?
 
Oh, don't worry about me discouraging people from being baptized, I will proudly state that God has allowed me to influence at least 30 people to be baptized, because I believe it IS key to our WALK with him. Just like God told Jonah to go the Ninevah, at first, he didn't and got swallowed by a whale. Got "whaled" on him enough until he got the picture that it was something he ought to think twice about. He eventually went, didn't he?

Did he do it right off the bat? Heck no, he didn't want to step foot near Ninevah.

God isn't going to push us into anything unwillingly, He'll just constantly remind us of it.

Vanaze
 
But also remember that while Satan may not be able to convince people of some lies, he can easily sway people to believe there is "no hurry" and keep putting it off until its to late. A song I know, I forget who its by, and its exact name for that matter, sums up a way to look at it. You never know when your life here on earth will be over, so you should always live it like it could end at anytime. Say it would end in 5 minutes for sure, would you live nay differently then now or finally do something? For most people, yes. Well what's to say that you dont have more then 5 minutes left and did not know. My point is, why put off something saying "Oh Ill have times for that later" or "Once I fully understand it"? God says to do something, and from all indications, for baptism, anyhow, to do so right after accepting Christ, as is demonstrated throughout the entire history of the early church. He commanded it to be done, so why put it off? No good has ever come from procrastination.
 
Master, God won't save some that aren't baptised and not some who aren't. He doesn't do that. If we are sincerly sorry for our sins, and we sincerly accept Him as Savior, then we'll be saved.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Master, God won't save some that aren't baptised and not some who aren't. He doesn't do that. If we are sincerly sorry for our sins, and we sincerly accept Him as Savior, then we'll be saved.
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^Heh, I don't remember ever implying that God would only saved the baptized ones. If you are sincerly sorry for you sins and sincerly accept him, then why not get baptized? I think its rather countradictory. I think baptism is just important as a wedding ceremony. Its not the ceremony that makes you married, but that doesn't mean its not necessary.
 
Tek -- I agree with you as far as Satan bringing apprehension and double-guessing into our mind, but I still think God will use you no matter what. Though yes, Satan does has his way of being rediculously powerful in the life of a Christian, which I will never understand.

Van
 
My pastor explained it once this way--baptism is a form of obedience, if we put it off we are in disobedience to God. However, baptism is not a requirement of salvation--Biblical proof is the thief on the cross next to Jesus. He repented of his sins and Christ told him "I tell you, this day you will be with me in paradise."

~Jordyn
 
that is one of those "what if's" for most people when the word is preached to them they are told to repent and be baptized. more often they are told to be baptized, full body emersion, than they are told to just believe.
 
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