Baptism

Baptism is not a work. You do not wash your sins away, or fill yourself with the Holy Spirit. and considering someone has to baptize you, your argument is without logic.

As for the what ifs, God tells you to do something and for what reasons, and then you go, "Well, I think it should be like this...," it only shows a lack of faith.
 
Amen, Kidan. Amen.

Now if I can only tell my cousin this and have him believe me -_-.....

Yea, you guys pray for him, I think this pastor he's been seeing lately is teaching my cousin (who is about 6 years older than me in age, but I'm his senior as a Christian by about the same amount) too much of HIS ideas and not God's ideas.

That is where this topic originally spawned from.

You guys pray for him, for God's guidance and shining light to come through to him and make sure he's going down the straight and narrow God laid before him, not the path man laid before him.

Thanks everyone.....CONTINUE DEBATING! I'm a glutton for punishment...

Van
 
I'm going to have to agree with Kidan, still. It is a work. Christ Himself said HE was the Way, the Truth and the Life, not water. Water is /representative/ of what occurs when you recieve Christ as your savior.

Van
 
My arguement was never to discredit baptism, or to say God didn't tell us to, I'm not ignorant.

My TOPIC was is it pertinent to our salvation?
 
It is as much apart as is repentance. It is not the water that saves you, it IS your faith, and if you truly do believe, you will follow what Jesus said, and he said believe AND be baptized. Baptism is not what saves, but it is something commanded to be done, so trying to say its irrelevant is what demonstrates a lack of faith.
 
I agree with that, and that wasn't the issue from the start. The issue was is it NECCESSERY to be baptized to be saved?

I think from what I've seen from everyone, 'couple exceptions, we agree that it is faith that saves you, and that baptism is an ACT of faith.

Thus, my story of the man in the desert....I'll ask again, where does he go when he dies?

Van
 
I never said it's irrelevent. I said it was a work. The Bible describes it as one of the first works for a Christian.

But it is still that. A work. It is a symbol of the rebirth and renewal that salvation does for you, a public announcement that you are now God's child. Even though someone does it to you, it is still a work that you do.

At the same time, baptism does not wash our sins away, nor does it fill us. That is the power of Christ's blood an the Spirit.

To again, answer Van's question about necessity, it is never necessary for us to do something other than to accept salvation to receive salvation. Everything we do after that, whether it be baptism or living our life as Christ-like as possible is a work.
 
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.." John 14:6 Does it say, "But by being baptised?" No.

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." -Romans 10:13

Does it say, whosever shall call upon the name of the Lord and be baptised? No.
 
"Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever refuses to believe will be condemned." Mrak 16:16
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dr. Tek @ Mar. 10 2004,9:25)]"Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever refuses to believe will be condemned." Mrak 16:16
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but notice that non-salvation is decieded by belief.

Thats like me saying, anyone who gets a degree and has a 3.9 gpa is a college graduate, but whoever does not get a degree is not a college graduate.


My belief is what makes me saved. Being baptized is something I can do afterwards that shows I'm a Christian.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Anyone who believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever refuses to believe will be condemned." Mrak 16:16
Click to expand...
Notice that it says "but whoever refuses to believe will be condemned." not "but whoever refuses to believe and be baptized will be condemned."
 
Why be redundant.  If you truly believe, you would get baptized and accept it as what the Bible says.  If you claim to believe yet will not follow a command given by Christ and believe it does what the Bible says, then you demonstrate a lack of faith.  You are trying to pull something out of it that is just not there.

And again, I am NOT saying baptism saves you, thats wht Catholics, Lutherans, and a few other groups believe. What I am saying is this: according to God's Word, it is by faith you are saved, and it is by faith you repent, and by faith you are baptized. I do not care what your denomination teaches, since Ive yet to find one that doesnt have some doctrine in conflict with scripture, or how you only want to look at certain verses and not ALL on a subject. What I say about baptism comes from after studying it in scripture for over a year, and I will accept God's Word over any interpretation of man.
 
Yep, by faith comes works. That's all I was waiting to hear, simply because baptism, while a step in your walk with Christ, is indeed a work that you do to show your dedication and faith to Christ.

I know a guy who is a deacon of my old church, possibly the best Christian man I've ever known personally, he's in his late fifties, and he just got baptized this past year after fighting that call for years and years, since he was a teenager.

I can tell you from personal experience that this guy was indeed a Christian, and God isn't going to let one indiscretion get in the way of your walk. Sometimes you just have to backtrack to the things you skipped over :P

Van
 
If you do not believe that Baptism is not what saves you, what is your point? If Baptism does not save you, it is not essential. ( I am not downplaying the relevance of Baptism. ) It may be a good thing to do, but it is not required. You admit this yourself by saying
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]
And again, I am NOT saying baptism saves you.
Click to expand...
 
First off, it is not a work. A work is something you DO. You dont baptize yourself, you CHOOSE to get baptized, which someone does, and according to scripture, it is then your sins are washed away, filled with Holy Spirit, etc.. You do not do any of those yourself, it is a choice, just like accepting Christ and repenting are.

Secondly, IRT Jango, my point is it is not water rejuvenation, which time and time again, you keep implying that is what I mean, when I do not. When you accept Christ, you also repent, turn your back on your sins. If you were not to repent and kept living in sin, you wouldnt be saved. After repenting, Christ commanded to be baptized for the washing away of your sins. It is as much as PART of being saved as is repentance, and your downplaying of its role is in contradiction to God's Word, which clearly states its purpose and role in salvation multiple times.
 
Incorrect, Christ's blood is what cleans you. No remission of sins without the shedding of blood, remember?

Van
 
And it is in baptism that we are buried with Christ and resurrected with Him, and in that his blood that was shed was poured over us. There are a few scriptural references to this, and I would give them if I had a concordance on hand or the verses written down, but I do not. Its all in the Bible, and if you read ALL of what it has to say on an issue, not just selected parts you can misinterpret without the rest, its as clear as can be.
 
I still stand firm by my stance that baptism is a work, it's a fruit of your faith, and I refuse to believe that God is going to send you to hell because you didn't get dunked in some water, because it's just that. Water. I get wet all over everyday in the shower. It's just water. /Unless it means something to you/.

The only way it will mean something to you is if you ARE saved and DO want to step forward in your relationship with Christ.
 
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