Avatar (the James Cameron fim, not the "last airbender")

Rio777 said:
Agree, what I would add is that it didn't merely have one message, they fit many messages in.

1)Anti-Colonialism/America
2)Ancestral worship
3)Spiritism
4)Environmentalism
5)Anti-corporation(which incidentally I agree with wholeheartedly)
6)Pantheism

And somehow they managed to hit all these very hard. Still, great movie if you can get past this stuff, to their credit they "fit it in" without it seeming heavy as far as the plot went. These messages worked within the story because the story was about them.

As Christians, we are so used to tolerating this kind of stuff. What I wouldn't give to be able to see movies of this quality without the messages, this goes for games too.
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see this is where i would have to argue we get so paranoid about "messages" that we cant just enjoy a storyline, a movie, or anything else. I mean shoot, killing natives and the killing of military is bad both way, we just happenly interpret it 1 way because we're paranoid about that message.

New agey stuff, ya i admit its there, and i didt like it. theres new agey stuff in FF7 thats just as bad. Theres a pretty similar tree in FF9 for spirits and fate and god crap. Does it fit the storyline? yup.

Anti corp, well its just an instance where the invisible hand wasnt at practice as it should be in capitalistic ideals. what else is new?

cant we just watch a movie, see it for what its worth, eg. a movie, enjoy it and then move on???
 
I saw Avatar last night - and I agree with Atown (above) about getting so paranoid with the 'messages' that we miss the fun of the movie. I went for the eye candy and I was not disappointed. I saw it on Imax and was overwhelmed by the 3D - the colors - the depth - anything to do with imagery was outstanding.

I knew going in the plot was predictable - the characters were comic book - the messages were mixed. And low and behold - they were. But guys - it's a movie! Not a documentary. Not a lesson in theology. Not even a political propaganda piece. Not unless you make it so.

The bad guys were like the bad guys in so many movies - driven by their own power and greed. They were just Sci-fi Nazis. The kind of bad guys you don't mind seeing getting their come-uppin's.

The good guys were the noble savage underdogs - and a handful of bad guys turned saviors who 'saw the light.' The kind of heroes we love to root for.

When the movie was over I didn't feel driven to go sell any corporate stocks I might be linked to - or to get more concerned about my recycling commitments - or to find my own Mother Earth type religion. I sat through the credits to see if there was one more 3D event at the end.

Like I said at the beginning of this post - I went for the eye candy and I was not disappointed. I felt like I was in a deep Asuran forest somewhere off the map of Tyria - maybe in Guild Wars 2 somewhere.

For a decent Christian review - with a content advisory (and I would check it before I took kids to see this - sad to see how many little the kids were in attendance) - check Drew Zahn.
 
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I thought the movie was outstanding. Although I think there are tons of things in the movie that would be "cool" if they existed in reality, I'd say it's safe to say that many movies are like that (the matrix, harry potter, etc). The visuals immersed me so much into the story that I really felt a connection with the characters while I watched the movie. Yes , the plot was pretty predictable, but that doesn't make the movie and worse (in my opinion). It's definitely my type of movie
 
I loved the movie and had a really good time watching it.

I just wanted to comment, after reading others' posts: It's important to differentiate between the political message and the human message.

The movie presented a strong message about man's inhumanity to man, especially when he encounters someone so different that he is able to write him off as "not quite as human as me." And when we group together and follow our greed, it gets really ugly.

This message is true. It rings true to the Bible's teaching and to our historical experience. Such things happened to indigenous peoples in North America, South America, Australia, Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East and were and are perpetrated by people of every color and origin.

While I suspect I might disagree with James Cameron about the war in Iraq or current foreign policy in Africa or whatnot -- He was right to ask me to stop a moment and think about the human issues involved in cultural confrontation... and to think about what role I play myself when I meet someone different.

To write off a moral message because of the possibility of political ramifications is a significant disservice to the faculty of reason God gave me and my role as an ambassador of Heaven.

(And to take umbrage because the bad guy is a white dude and the good guy is blue is pretty backwards too... If it had been Darth Vader with those spaceships and Obi Wan on the birds, would we view the movie differently?) (I don't think anyone's doing that on OUR forums, I'm just saying it's important to note.)
 
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grimsauce said:
I thought the movie was outstanding. Although I think there are tons of things in the movie that would be "cool" if they existed in reality,
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i totally know what you mean dude, that can be fun stuff when they present their creativity and immerse us into it like that though.


brydon, Excellent point :)
 
I fail to see anything wrong with being "paranoid" about the messages that films promote. If anything I would argue that it is irresponsible to ignore them in favor of viewing any form of media purely as entertainment. Entertainment is obviously a central part of productions such as Avatar, but it is a mistake to assume that the message is secondary to that.

In every form of media, whether it's books, movies, music or video games you will find messages, and where the creators have made it a point to include a message, it is a central element of the creation.

Everything kind of entertainment that we ingest affects us whether mean for it to or not. To try to separate the message from the entertainment is to make yourself passively absorb it. When you are given a message of any sort, it is your responsibility to judge it critically; to do less is to is to be irresponsible with your own mind and to be intellectually dishonest with yourself.

On a different note, I take great issue with the idea of the "Noble Savage." This concept derives from the irreparably flawed belief that there is some fundamental goodness in man (or in the case of Avatar, sentient life in general). There is no goodness in man apart from God's intervention, and in most cases this fact is even more obvious in the "savage" than it is in the civilized man.
 
shadetaker said:
I fail to see anything wrong with being "paranoid" about the messages that films promote. If anything I would argue that it is irresponsible to ignore them in favor of viewing any form of media purely as entertainment. Entertainment is obviously a central part of productions such as Avatar, but it is a mistake to assume that the message is secondary to that.

In every form of media, whether it's books, movies, music or video games you will find messages, and where the creators have made it a point to include a message, it is a central element of the creation.

Everything kind of entertainment that we ingest affects us whether mean for it to or not. To try to separate the message from the entertainment is to make yourself passively absorb it. When you are given a message of any sort, it is your responsibility to judge it critically; to do less is to is to be irresponsible with your own mind and to be intellectually dishonest with yourself.

On a different note, I take great issue with the idea of the "Noble Savage." This concept derives from the irreparably flawed belief that there is some fundamental goodness in man (or in the case of Avatar, sentient life in general). There is no goodness in man apart from God's intervention, and in most cases this fact is even more obvious in the "savage" than it is in the civilized man.
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isnt it wrong to always assume that there is an "evil liberal message" hidden in everything? or even a generic message of any kind? also i think its pretty critical to think every single people who writes a book, cant simple write out of their creativity and imagination and share the world they have weaved. People have pointed out different "messages" in the LotR books and movies but i've never found them, i just simply enjoy a good fantasy, and move on with life. Sure i saw some messages in Avatar, but i enjoyed a good fantasy and moved on, I saw the movie UP the other day, and their may or may not be messages in that movie, but it was a cool yet sad fantasy movie that was made up. fantasy here being the devlopment of someones creativity and imagination.

I mean sheesh does a "wheres waldo" or a "cat in the hat" book have crazy messages hidden? lol who knows, but im not going to be paranoid about it, nor am i ignorant either.
 
Atown said:
I mean sheesh does a "wheres waldo" or a "cat in the hat" book have crazy messages hidden? lol who knows, but im not going to be paranoid about it, nor am i ignorant either.
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What? You don't know about the crazy messages scattered throughout the Cat in the Hat?

They're right th... uh, they're right... hmm, I seem to have lost the messages. :eek:
 
If you assume every story has a message then clearly you haven't read Hemingway.
 
I think, just like in music, it's easy to find your own meaning in movies or books... in english I was often told that there are hundreds of themes in the books we read, if you can find some good evidence for your claim, then you can say that it's a theme of the book.

So films may have some obvious messages within them, but it's all up to the viewer as to whether they agree or disagree, or ignore them. If you don't agree with the message in a movie, you probably won't feel passionately about it- if you do agree, then maybe there is a reason for that passion?
 
shadetaker said:
I fail to see anything wrong with being "paranoid" about the messages that films promote. If anything I would argue that it is irresponsible to ignore them in favor of viewing any form of media purely as entertainment. Entertainment is obviously a central part of productions such as Avatar, but it is a mistake to assume that the message is secondary to that.
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I have to agree with Shade on this one.

When presented with the question, "Should Christians play game X," where X can equal Dance Dance Revolution, Diablo, Grand Theft Auto, World of WarCraft, or any other game, there is usually one person who posts, "It's just a game," as if a question asked in earnest and expecting a reasoned reply can be answered in a flippant four words. I disagree with that perspective.

While we shouldn't live in a bubble or classify anything with wizards as "evil" (especially considering Lord of the Rings and Gandalf's true origin; read the Silmarillion), we also shouldn't fail to filter what we take in.

If Shadetaker felt the political message was ham-fisted and detracted from the film, then calling him "paranoid" doesn't accomplish anything constructive. He has his personal convictions. One of my pet peeves is when people tell others to "just ignore it," which assumes the person they're addressing (1) should ignore it, which carries its own implications, and (2) can ignore it. Both assumptions lead to a breakdown in communication.

At the same time, there are people who can watch a film with political messages and filter or ignore those messages. Viewers with that ability shouldn't be disregarded or criticized, either. While I don't have the ability to filter or ignore political messages, especially those that are thinly disguised or contrary to Scripture, I understand some people can and I make a conscious effort to recognize their perspective (even if it is admittedly difficult at times). If they can enjoy Avatar, then I don't see any gain from detracting from their enjoyment of the film.

EDIT: And if you felt unsatisfied by Avatar or were annoyed by the political messages, then remember that Avatar isn't the only film that uses cutting edge technology to deliver amazing visuals. Pixar creates visually stunning films with great messages. Case in point: The Incredibles.
shadetaker said:
On a different note, I take great issue with the idea of the "Noble Savage." This concept derives from the irreparably flawed belief that there is some fundamental goodness in man (or in the case of Avatar, sentient life in general). There is no goodness in man apart from God's intervention, and in most cases this fact is even more obvious in the "savage" than it is in the civilized man.
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Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness ftw.
 
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Tek7 said:
I have to agree with Shade on this one.

When presented with the question, "Should Christians play game X," where X can equal Dance Dance Revolution, Diablo, Grand Theft Auto, World of WarCraft, or any other game, there is usually one person who posts, "It's just a game," as if a question asked in earnest and expecting a reasoned reply can be answered in a flippant four words. I disagree with that perspective.

While we shouldn't live in a bubble or classify anything with wizards as "evil" (especially considering Lord of the Rings and Gandalf's true origin; read the Silmarillion), we also shouldn't fail to filter what we take in.

If Shadetaker felt the political message was ham-fisted and detracted from the film, then calling him "paranoid" doesn't accomplish anything constructive. He has his personal convictions. One of my pet peeves is when people tell others to "just ignore it," which assumes the person they're addressing (1) should ignore it, which carries its own implications, and (2) can ignore it. Both assumptions lead to a breakdown in communication.

At the same time, there are people who can watch a film with political messages and filter or ignore those messages. Viewers with that ability shouldn't be disregarded or criticized, either. While I don't have the ability to filter or ignore political messages, especially those that are thinly disguised or contrary to Scripture, I understand some people can and I make a conscious effort to recognize their perspective (even if it is admittedly difficult at times). If they can enjoy Avatar, then I don't see any gain from detracting from their enjoyment of the film.

EDIT: And if you felt unsatisfied by Avatar or were annoyed by the political messages, then remember that Avatar isn't the only film that uses cutting edge technology to deliver amazing visuals. Pixar creates visually stunning films with great messages. Case in point: The Incredibles.
Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness ftw.
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And it wasnt really about ignoring, its recognizing and moving on and not becoming a society where we get all up in arms about every little petty thing that we cant enjoy life or creativity anymore.

People think christians are judgemental all the time and negative, well that even comes to this. we are seeing everything wrong and pointing out so much stuff that we cant hardly enjoy anything when unclean meat like pork is pretty tasty in my opinion.

...... pixar.. .really? i havent enjoyed an "animated film" for visual effects since advent children.....
 
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I'm not exactly sure where this thread is going, but I'll add two more cents :)

Like what Shade and Tek said, anyone can take meaning from anything. Its one of those things my English teachers have drilled into my brain, and its pretty easy to take meaning or symbolism out of a lot of stuff. I did it one time at lunch, my school's buildings are white with red poles/trim, and we're built on an old Mexican/Indian Ranch, White=Man... Red=Blood... its a stretch, but it works... more or less.

However that's not my point, what I'm trying to say is: There is obvious meaning in Avatar, both relating to the in-movie world and to our world, and to ignore those messages is shortsighted. However, to get wrapped up in the messages and to make them take away from the absolute beauty and overall pretty good movie aspect, as well as becoming over critical of political indoctrination, is also shortsighted.
 
I think we have all spent to much time in some English Lit class reading a book then writing about the transformation of the protagonist in a 10 page essay for a mark from some alcoholic professor who clearly doesn't know the difference between a simile and alliteration.
 
lol - been there - done that. We Christians are so funny about this kind of thing.

I remember a serious Christian fellow who had a hard time with the children's books in the church library. When I asked for an example he picked up one of those little children's books about David as a shepherd boy. "It has David saying things that are not in the Bible. We can't have unbiblical things in our library, especially for the children." I asked him if he thought David ONLY said what is in the Bible. This is the same guy who thought that the angels in the pictures on the wall in the nursery were too 'revealing' to have at church. LOL. Then there are the Christian parents who were up in arms about Harry Potter but didn't mind their little kids seeing Lord of the Rings.

Oh well, enough - I enjoyed the movie.
 
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Abba San said:
Then there are the Christian parents who were up in arms about Harry Potter but didn't mind their little kids seeing Lord of the Rings.
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Well that's obvious.. Harry Potter doesn't have Orc armies or Gimli. Gimli FTW! :)
 
Well this is just one of those things where everyone should just agree to disagree. Considering the bible does not condemn the movie or any movie, then it's just a matter of opinion. Considering "Opinions" can succumb to Human Error, maybe we should just keep them to ourselves. Stick to what the bible says, which points out clearly everyone has there own weaknesses as well as strengths. Considering that, lets just hope everyone has the strength to ask God whats best for themselves and not succumb to Peer pressure.


I enjoy movies for their Art. I will be seeing this one, and me and God are ok with that.

God Bless.
 
inkelis said:
Considering that, lets just hope everyone has the strength to ask God whats best for themselves and not succumb to Peer pressure.


I enjoy movies for their Art. I will be seeing this one, and me and God are ok with that.

God Bless.
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Mmm.. I like
 
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