Atheistic morals

Let's just start with this, by disbelieving in a god, do you believe in the hypothesis of macro-evolution?
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I'll answer this for him ;)

DV doesn't "disbelieve" in a god, he just doesn't have enough proof to believe, or disbelieve, any god exsists. No, he doesn't believe in macro-evolution, he does believe in micro-evolution.
 
Dagnabbit! I was all set up to refute it! Oh well.
Maybe I can change my argument a bit and it will work.
In the meantime, I would suggest a book called "Darwin's black box" by Micheal Behe. Behe is a biochemist who, at least st the time of writimg the book, didn't believe in God. He did think that there was a god. The book basically rips evolution apart and says that since evolution is untrue, there must be a god of some type who made us. Good reading.
 
Dark Virtue said:
Is there a reason you won't answer my question?

If you won't answer mine, why should I bother answering yours?
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Because I said so. *pouts*

Seriously though, I've been looking but have had a head cold for a while. (congestion=ugh....)
 
Goose62 said:
I'll answer this for him ;)

DV doesn't "disbelieve" in a god, he just doesn't have enough proof to believe, or disbelieve, any god exsists. No, he doesn't believe in macro-evolution, he does believe in micro-evolution.
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LOL, Goose, you can be my publicist :)

You see snake, I've obviously stated my case enough times already.

Thanks Goose! You couldn't have said that any better, even if you quoted me.
 
Snake_Six said:
Dagnabbit! I was all set up to refute it! Oh well.
Maybe I can change my argument a bit and it will work.
In the meantime, I would suggest a book called "Darwin's black box" by Micheal Behe. Behe is a biochemist who, at least st the time of writimg the book, didn't believe in God. He did think that there was a god. The book basically rips evolution apart and says that since evolution is untrue, there must be a god of some type who made us. Good reading.
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Behe isn't the most credible of sources in the infidel world, just so you know.

Here's a link to a critique of "Darwin's Black Box", I'm sure you can find many, many more with Google: http://www.cbs.dtu.dk/staff/dave/Behe.html#schools

In the end, I don't believe in macro evolution for the same reason I don't believe in God...there simply isn't enough reason to do so.

However, I'm willing to examine it as a theory.

Would you be willing to label your belief in the existence of God as a theory?
 
In the end, I don't believe in macro evolution for the same reason I don't believe in God...there simply isn't enough reason to do so.
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Then where did we come from, if you don't believe in God or evolution?

*Hitchhikers Guide flashback* do you believe we were sneezed into the universe, and one day we will be "wiped clean" be strange blue creatures with 50 arms each? (note: this was intended to be funny, not insulting anyones beliefs. If it offends anyone, I apologize. I was thinking of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
 
ChickenSoup said:
Then where did we come from, if you don't believe in God or evolution?

*Hitchhikers Guide flashback* do you believe we were sneezed into the universe, and one day we will be "wiped clean" be strange blue creatures with 50 arms each? (note: this was intended to be funny, not insulting anyones beliefs. If it offends anyone, I apologize. I was thinking of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
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I'm content to say, "I don't know".

There are many theories and stories that interest me, like the Enuma Elish or Zechariah Sitchin's ideas, but in the end, I simply have to say "I don't know". It's the most intellectually honest answer I can give. I'd much rather prefer to say I don't know than to hazard unfounded guesses.

Ready for the kicker? I'm just as happy not being sure than you are in your beliefs. I don't feel like I have a hole inside me or that I'm missing out on anything. I say this because Christians love to bring that up and ask that question.
 
DV, that link really didn't talk much about Behe's book. All it did was call ID 'false science'.
No, I wouldn't call my belief that God exists a theory, I would call it a fact. You of course would disagree with me on that one.
 
Well I think it all depends on what your definition of 'fact' is.

I use the following definition:

a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"
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There are a bunch of looser interpretations, for sure. Fact can mean as much as an ironclad guarantee of veracity, or as little as something about which one is merely pretty sure.

So - is your belief based on fact or faith?
 
It is based upon fact. However it is only by the grace of God that I am able to recognize it as such.
Eon and DV, no matter how facts and proof I bring up, you will deny it because you have not been regenerated by God. If/when you are you will undoubtly slap yourself on the forehead and think "How could I have been so blind?"

The reason for this is we are fallen creatures. When Adam sinned, it totally cut us off from God, we are no longer capable of doing anything spiritually good on our own (we can do morally good acts, but to God it's still a sin as we are unregenerate). We are spiritually dead as a doornail. And as a result we are at eternal emnity with God and want nothing to do with Him. We will gladly run down the path to Hell blinding ourselves to the Truth. Insisting that there is no God, that we are the ultimate power in the universe.

But there is hope for some. God, in His soveriegn wisdom, has chosen some people to be saved. Not because of anything we have done, but because He wanted to. God takes the people He has chosen and regenerates their heart, so that they want to serve and please Him.

However, this will not happen to everybody. God is the one who has done the chosing. Man cannot, in his natural state, choose God. After he has been given a new heart, he is capable of choosing to serve God or not, but who, after their eyes have been opened, would still run off the cliff?

DV, in your last post (as of this writing) you said the there was no hole in your life. That you don't feel as if anything was missing. This means that you are still condemned to Hell. That God has not given you a new heart.
This does not mean that you may not be one of the elect. You may be but God hasn't changed you yet. I cannot know if you are or not.
What I can know is that you, like the rest of the World, are a sinner under the condemnation of God, and justly so.
I am praying for you DV, and you Eon. That God will change your hearts and bring you into an eternal relationship with Him.
 
Snake_Six said:
DV, that link really didn't talk much about Behe's book. All it did was call ID 'false science'.
No, I wouldn't call my belief that God exists a theory, I would call it a fact. You of course would disagree with me on that one.
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I think I also stated that you could find plenty of other links to criticisms of Behe through Google.

I suggest you look up the word "fact", because your definition is different than the standard, accepted definition. Would you mind defining "fact" for us? Please also furnish us with your definition of "theory".
 
Oops, sorry Eon, you beat me to it :)

Eon said:
Well I think it all depends on what your definition of 'fact' is.

I use the following definition:



There are a bunch of looser interpretations, for sure. Fact can mean as much as an ironclad guarantee of veracity, or as little as something about which one is merely pretty sure.

So - is your belief based on fact or faith?
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Ready for the kicker? I'm just as happy not being sure than you are in your beliefs. I don't feel like I have a hole inside me or that I'm missing out on anything. I say this because Christians love to bring that up and ask that question.
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Well, you wasted finger energy-I wasn't gonna ask you that. Although I'm not sure I would feel the same... uncertainty rules that belief it would seem
 
So it's faith then. Would have been much quicker if you'd just said that. I think you're right, I am not one of the Elect - and yet, and yet - according to your own book I was created specifically by God. For a task.

Is that task to burn for eternity? With no chance of remission and no option for change?

If so - what does that make your loving and merciful God? And what does it make you for serving him?

The idea that there is a Roll of the Elect was discredited before the Age of Reason - it is not a little frightening to encounter it again in the modern age.
 
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