Are christians truly free?

CCGR

CCGR

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FREEDOM UNDER CONTROL

You are not slaves; you are free. But your freedom is not an excuse to do evil. You are free to live as God's slaves. – 1 Peter 2:16 (NLT)

If I wanted to I could sit down every morning to a breakfast of chocolate cake. Not just a piece of cake, but an entire cake with icing spread thick, made with real butter and filled with calories. In addition, I could wash my cake down with a massive strawberry milkshake made with ten scoops of home made ice cream. I have the liberty to do this, and no one can stop me. The only problem is that my freedom to eat in this way is going to have consequences. Over the course of time, I will not be able to function physically to the extent I could if I had showed reasonable constraint.

In a similar way as Christians we are free to make our own choices, even bad ones, if that is what we desire. God does not stop us from acting irresponsibly or keep us from doing or saying things that can harm us or others around us. Yet we cannot use our liberty as an excuse for behaving badly. Just because God allows us to do whatever we desire does not mean that God approves of everything we choose to do. The best choice is to exercise the freedom God gives us to live in a manner that pleases Him. True freedom is not found in throwing off restraint, but in choosing to live under the authority of the One who has emancipated us.

PRAYER THOUGHT: Lord, I choose to live under Your control.

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Any colour you want, Tovarischee, as long as you want black.

No form of emancipation involves slavery.
No form of freedom involves eternal torture.

By the definition you've given, the slaves in America had a choice - between lifelong slavery or death at the hands of their owners. What sort of choice is that?

Eon
 
The same choice that any of us face.

To do one thing or another.

Whether we choose to live or die in a decision like that is irregardless, so long as we choose and we believe in our choice. Sometimes we must make a decision between 2 bad things. That is life.




emancipation is the opposite of slavery
freedom is the opposite of torment.

Therefore since Christains have eternal freedom, those without it, have eternal torment.

Those choices and the freedom we have is tempered by the knowledge that all things we do should show love for our God, others and ourselves
 
So, are you saying that freewill belongs only to Christians - precisely those people who choose not to exercise it?

Then it's as I said.

Eon
 
Wowzers.
I seem to notice this big lack of, "All things are permissible to me, but not all things are beneficial."
Umm, no free will isn't limited to Christians. You made a choice to say that, didn't you Eon? You made the chocie to even click the sign-in to the Internet, and to come to this website, didn't you?
You made the choice to walk to your computer, you made the choice to eat breakfast, or not eat it.
Every man has free will. Of course the slaves had free will! Their only choice was not: Do I serve that dude I call Master or do I make a break for it? They had lives to live out, as well. Wives, kids, work. Not much different from any other man except for them it was forced labor. So don't just barge in with "What about the slaves? They had free will?!" Every man has a choice of what to do.
 
But then everybody has ALWAYS had a choice - from the beginning right up until the end. I mean, you can choose not to choose - that's a choice.

But I'm removing the stupid choices automatically... I mean, salvation or death is not a hard choice. Slavery or death - now that IS a kicker. Slavery or Eternal torment - what kind of a choice is that?

Vote none of the above...

Eon
 
Everyone has always had a choice. I mean, in some cases, it's kinda hard to avoid some things. Slaves had a will to do stuff in their life, but not a choice as to whether or not they'd like to apply as a headmaster, or choose to be a slave.
Would you rather take being a slave for anywhere from 1-40 years, or would you rather take a burning end for anywhere from Infinity to Infinity?
 
Bring on the petrol - I'm serious. Passive-Aggressive resistance is far more effective than Aggressive resistance when seriously outgunned.

Of course, I doubt I'll ever be in the position where I'd have to make that choice, but if I did, I'd choose non-compliance over servitude. And don't forget, you're not talking about 30-40 years of servitude, you're talking about ETERNAL servitude. So yeah, bring on the petrol because I'd rather burn than glorify something that would make me take that choice.

Eon
 
ETernal servitude? Are you comparing Christianity to slavery to God?
WEll, my friend, don't let me be the first one to light the match, but what do you look like? I just wanna know. Brown haired, blue-eyed, tall white guy?
 
So that way I can ask God to point you out when you're all screaming in pain while burning. NOt to be mean or cruel, or non-Christian, but you know I would like to see who it was that said that he would want the fuel started for him.
But what about eternal servitude? Are you talking of to man as a slave, like the AFricans to the Romans, or the AFricans to the Americans, or are you talking of being a slave to JEsus Christ?
A man is a slave to sin, as I posted down below.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ Feb. 09 2003,10:33)]So that way I can ask God to point you out when you're all screaming in pain while burning. NOt to be mean or cruel, or non-Christian, but you know I would like to see who it was that said that he would want the fuel started for him.
.
Click to expand...
OK, thats plain sick.
 
Hey man, I didn't say I wanted to see him burn. He's volunteering himself for it. Read his posts. He would take that over serving an eternity to a God of dysfunctional values, a passive-aggressive resistance rather than an agressive resistance.
I just wanna see the man who said such a thing. That's all. I hope he changes his mind about that, but you know, God says some are destined to their ways. They refuse to change. Just like the Pharaoh.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ Feb. 09 2003,6:46)]Hey man, I didn't say I wanted to see him burn.
Click to expand...
No, you just said you'd delight in watching him suffer.

Which is by all measure FAR WORSE than wanting someone to be punished. Let me bring it down for you. "Hey man, I don't want him to die. I just want to catch a thrill watching him gasp for your last breaths".

Come on now. Your own God taught compassion to enemy. I'm an self-admitted evil cold-hearted sonuva#####, but if I wanted to kill someone I'd make sure to make it clean and quick...
 
Heh... Ultima's got himself in trouble again - but he's right. I DID mean what I said, and I certainly don't claim to have been misunderstood.

My only consolation is that you WON'T ask to see me, because that's not what God will tell you to ask. He'll have you with your nose pressed to the ground singing hymns of adoration for eternity. And he'll make you LIKE it.

At least I'll still be myself, and I'm used to living with pain, I would imagine that with an ETERNITY to adapt, even searing fire would lose its sting.

Eon
 
Uh, Damar, I think you should read that post again. I never made any mention of taking delight in his suffering. Once again, look before you leap, and study your answers carefully to be sure you're not going to screw up. You're messing up a lot lately...
I don't care if I have the whole world against me because of that post. It was just a point to Eon's response.
Yeah well Eon. I can understand. I'm kinda used to pain here, maybe not as much as you, nor in the same manner, but it's still pain, and I dislike it at times. Other times I welcome it as a happy addition to my day.
On the quite contrary, dear Eon, I highly doubt, and I believe I have the Bible on my side, that eternity will not consist of singing hymns.
You know that God says he is building manors for each one of us? Now, I don't know about you, but if I was going to stay put for eternity, I wouldn't take the time to make a manor for anyone in heaven. I would let them stand around and sing their lungs out forever. The angels adore him, yes...I do not believe the end of man shall be to eternally praise his name. I believe we shall live in Heaven, not just sing in HEaven.
For if you recall, IF you read the Bible, there was a rich man and a poor man. Poor dude died and went to a part of Sheol. Rich dude and burns to this day, no longer in Sheol but in hell. He called to Abraham, who, also, died and went to the place with Lazarus (the poor dude), for the poor dude to dip his finger in the water in the heavenly area and place it on his tongue. Abraham said, "Sorry, man. CAn't do that. There's this huge chasm between you and me. You can't come here, nor I there." I don't think Abraham sang that out into a praise at the same time...
God will never twist our arms, my friend. He said as much. And as for getting used to the flames, oh how I wish it would be so...but it won't. God says you'll never escape the pain. You'll gnash your teeth, and scream, and point fingers at everyone. I'm sure you'll point yours at me and blame me for placing you there, but I won't be there. And gnashing your teeth hurts.....that means you shatter your teeth against your teeth. Try it and tell me how it feels.
For me, there's not much in the choice between eternal pain and eternal joy...but as they say, to each his own.
 
Is that like the deal that Suicide Bombers supposedly get, where they're fed grapes by 67 virgins? ;)

You know, I can at least take heart in the fact that if ONE of you guys are right (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) then two thirds of you will be burning right next to me - at least I never sinned in Gods name, so who's the bad guy here?

Of course if I'M right, that means that you've hated yourself all this time for nothing.

Eon
 
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