All you Guardians out there

K

Kunkali

New Member
So I think I've finally settled on being a Guardian (after using up all 5 character slots). I'm level 20 now and am having a really hard time planning out a build for leveling. Do I do a burning condition build, a symbol build, a consecration build, a straight damage build, a spirit weapon build, a retaliation build? If i do, what would the build look like?

It seems like the traits are all over the place to the point where you can't get all the good traits for one build. I also read that a burning condition build isn't all that great, although there are tons of traits dealing with burning.

I just don't know what to do. So what have the rest of you planned out? Would you mind building it in an online build calculator and linking it so i can see?

www.gw2db.com has a good one.

edit: i like using the greatsword as a main and mace/torch as secondary weapon set.
 
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:D Thank you;

Been playing my warrior more, cause Biblica (my wife) plays when she can; (disability) on her Ele. So I play my Guardian when she plays. Love the Guardian & Warrior.
 
I've been having that problem as well. My plan was/is to go a consecration build and fill out my Virtue line and healing line. However, the consecrations aren't all that viable in regular every-day PvE, so I might trait for that and run it in WvW and dungeons but run something else in other PvE. However, I'm not terribly excited about the utility slots.. I think if you wanted to go a DPS Guardian you're forced to go Spirit Weapons or trait into a flame virtue build.

I'm hoping they tweak a little of the skills to make Guardians a little more offensive friendly, but I still am enjoying my guardian a ton. I'm currently running a broadsword, M/Sh build right now with consecrations. Broadsword for the mobs, M/Sh for when I need more prot and for bosses.
 
Bump...so what leveling specs are you all going for on your guardians, and what are your favored weapon sets?
 
Hey, I just dinged 20 on my Guardian as well, and he's become one of the two character's I've narrowed down to focusing on. I've been reading through the Guardian forums pretty thoroughly both on Guru and the official forums, and for general PvE there seems to be a pretty good consensus about going 15 into Radiance first, then 5 into Virtues. The 15 into Radiance gives you Renewed Justice, which means you get your Virtue of Justice returned whenever something dies that you have tagged (according to reports you don't need to do the killing blow, though you will see that stated in some places). You also get Justice is Blind on the way there, and if you pick up Blind Exposure for your first adept Trait, you will apply Blind and Vulnerability every time you activate Virtue of Justice. The five points in Virtues also gives you Inspired Virtue, which means, in addition to area Blind and Vulnerability, you give yourself Might with each activation.

So you are doing damage and getting blinds for defense. You activate VoJ at the beginning of a fight, and every time something dies you get to activate it again for another Blind, Vulernability, and more stacks of Might. Of course, you have to be level 40 before you'll get Renewed Justice, which is the key to all of this.

So far, I've been mostly using greatsword and mace/torch. I find I can kill things very quickly with greatsword, but my health also dips dramatically if I'm fighting multiple foes. Mace/torch seems to give a good balance of survivability and damage with the mace protection and torch burning. I also worked with Hammer for a bit recently, which they just reworked to add a leap. The addition helps. Hammer was also destroying things quickly.
 
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Question for folks: what does retaliation do, as far as damage reduction? I have been unable to find this, and haven't gotten a chance yet. Any damage reduction? I haven't gotten around to testing this thoroughly yet.

Guardian has definitely become my main. I'd love to hear what others have done as well. Right now I'm the "okay, I'm getting pretty experienced with this guy, now it's time to really dig into the mechanics phase". First thing to take into consideration is what you enjoy doing. I have my guardian set to beefcake; I enjoy being in a fight, dishing out AoE, laughing off damage, and helping the team. I'm sort of dungeon specced, because stuff in the normal areas is pretty easy to faceroll. My goal is that in the more difficult areas, I can stay alive, help mitigate damage to my team, and have the ability to resurrect allies, even in tough spots.

TL;DR: In short, here is what I'm moving towards at level 80. Want more thoughts on why I'm rolling this way? Read the wall'o'text below.
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/gu...66|49966|26062|21082|21082|21082|21082|21082|


I'm currently level 47, so I've still got a lot of options I haven't unlocked just yet...working with what I have. Was just working on my build this morning, so making some changes here that might not work out. Here's how I roll:

Weapons
Primary:
Greatsword is great. It's right there in the name. Sword isn't great. GW2 doesn't have a "great" staff or a "great" dagger. Greatswords even look great. I spend most of my fighting time here.

Secondary:
I also rolled most of my time on scepter/torch...mainly because I wanted a breathing fire is awesome....and I've been going for a dragon wyrm look with my armor, so that feels even more awesome. However, I decided this isn't the best idea for me because it didn't provide much my main didn't have.

I've been considering a mace/shield combo (super tanker!), but currently loving staves as my alt. I focus on crowd control (binding blade, anyone?), and staff is very good at this. Symbol of swiftness is VERY good for helping allies kite enemies (or doing so yourself), and I'm starting to learn some very good uses for line of warding. It's a nice fat line that enemies can't cross for 5 seconds. You can ball up chasing enemies on the line in narrow Catacombs passages, drop one in front of a mob chasing a player, or set up as a line of defense at the start of a fight. In addition, staves have some healing, even it isn't huge...but if I'm retreating from the battle to ranged, every bit helps And of course, the ranged aoe spam attack is nice.

Gear

Always a personal preference, but I tend to go all vitality on the armor and power/healing on the accessories. I run bloodlust or life on my sword, as beefcaking around tends to let that stack those up well. Sigil of speed on staff is very nice during zerg dynamic events, which I usually swap to due to being able to cheese lots of kill credit from the AoE ranged attack.

Vit + toughness on gear, maybe toughness rune due to me not traiting that much.

Heal/Utility

Signet of resolve for heal. Breeze sounds good in theory, but it's hard to be in a situation where it's worth the extra time and recharge while there happens to be an ally around. This might be a better option if I was rolling ranged support. Don't like shelter...block is nice but not for that healing.

All shouts. All the time. Save Yourselves for obvious reasons...if danger is low, I use it. If threat is high, I may wait until I start taking damage and Hold the Line has run out. Stand your ground is one I'm not sure if I need on the bar, but that depends on exactly what retaliation is doing for me. Very nice for those large ground pounding bosses on teammates that don't dodge. :)

Fantastic thing about shouts: no cast time, can be used any any time. This includes mid attack (squeze an extra half second out of your shout) or when you're knocked down. SY + HtL do a great job keeping you floating during those dreaded knockdowns.

Note (need to test): does Stand Your Ground get you up from a KD immediately, like how "I a the Strongest!" removed cripple in GW1? If so, fantastic. It seemed to last night when I was messing with it, but I need to pay more attention.

Elite

I've been using tome of wrath because spamming YOU ARE WEAK! and FEEL MY WRATH is awesome...and don't get me started on that nuclear aoe attack. That said: this skill comes with serious downsides. Namely, you have zero utility and you cannot res. Ouch. I'm a charr, which I'm happy about, but that really doesn't provide any elites I like for what I'm going for.

I haven't tested it yet, but will be putting renewed focus on my bar next time I log in. I'm planning on using this in conjunction with the virtues line to have real ultimate power.


Traits

This is where the real planning comes in.

Beyond that...I'm having trouble choosing. Here are my thoughts:
Zeal - Binding Jeapordy would be nice. All in all not the trait for me...obviously more for DPS minded folks.
Radiance - 5 points for Justice is Blind looks like it would work great with the Virtues line and what I'm going for. Double up with vulnerability from Blind Exposure. Healer's retribution might be nice.
Valor - Aegis at 50% is nice, and this line might be worht it just for the extra defense. Strength of the Fallen @ 10. Shield skill might be nice if I went that way. Altruistic healing might be great with all the boons I'm using.
Honor is my main trait. So far there are FOUR things here I'd love to have but can only pick two: Protective reviver, Resolute Healer, Two-Handed Mastery, and Superior Aura. Mastery is #4 out of them, but the rest are hard to choose from. Shield of Absorption while reviving? 20% recharge reduction on shouts? Revived ally gets aegis, protection, and regeneration? All are fantastic! I think I'm sticking with Superior Aura and Protective Revivor for now. Looking at Pure of Voice for grandmaster.
Virtues - Thinking about speccing this as my second and getting much more use from my virtues, which I pretty much leave passive. This lets me cast them without feeling like I'm losing something...or combo with radiance. Vengeful would be nice if retaliation reduces damage...as would Retaliatory Subconscious. Virtue of retribution - more retribution.
 
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OK, Bick right now is having fun being a ^Shaman^ guy for buffs & OT-healing; gw003.jpggw002.jpggw001.jpg

In grps, I maintain a decent balance while using a staff, or switching to a 2H Hammer; A lot of fun; just my fun atm...
 
Thanks for the thorough write up of your thoughts, Ryan. Helpful to see what a higher level Guardian is doing.

Everything I've read says that retaliation doesn't provide any damage mitigation. It only does damage.
 
Thanks for the response. Did some testing last night that confirms. Still seems superbuseful if done aoe, though...may reevaluate a bit. At the moment I'm trying to scrape enough points to get the burn/blind/vulnerable cmbo going, but I'm nt sure how useful that is against bosses. Sticking aegis on all is seems to help a great bit, though.
 
Yeah, seems more of a general mob destroying machine, as you need frequent deaths to build the avalanche.

I also just recently read a post talking about scepter as under-appreciated, and that the trick is to use it as a melee weapon even though it looks to be ranged. The claim is that Smite is balanced with the idea of mobs moving out of its AoE, but that if you use it in melee range you can generally keep the enemy in the area for really good damage. Of course, scepter's orbs also hit best up close because of their ridiculously slow travel time.
 
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I'm still low level (26), so I'm not sure if it is meaningful, but I've been going with shield. I'm pretty much always playing greatsword unless things get too harry (Champions, pulled way too many mobs with binding blade), so my other weapon set is for range and defense. To that end, I figure go all out with scepter/shield.

I have seen several people who advocate scepter/shield, sword/focus, even though it seems like the off-hands should be shifted there.
 
Okay, put some levels and practice in...currently 59. Can't wait to hit 60. :) Reporting back on the 15 radiance idea. Long story short is it seems to work great, but what I didn't expect is that it works great whether or not you're killing enemies. The reason being is how it affects allies and stacks, more below.

Trash mobs - it's easy to see how this would help create an "avalanche". Prior to having some sort of recharge, I pretty much never used Virtue of Justice. What a waste. Now I'm immediately setting my target on fire, which also blinds and makes the target vulnerable. First, the damage is significant...at least compared to what I do with my vitality/toughness-specced guardian. Just based on numbers I'd wager I'm doing close to as much damage through this skill while burning as I am doing with my greatsword. Add in mobs being blinded, my aegis, etc, and it's very fun.

Bosses/tough dungeon mobs - 5 seconds out of 30 burning would be lame on a tough mob. But this does much more than that. Why? VoJ affects allies and stacks duration. Suppose we are going through AC and fighting a boss. There are 5 of us. That means when I activate VoJ, each ally gets 5 seconds burning on next attack, which stacks. So together we can keep that boss burning for 25 seconds through one trait. 30 second recharge minus recharge bonus from Virtues line means you're looking at near 100% uptime.

VoJ Range - I did a little testing, and range seems huge. I snuck up behind some random people at what looked to be staff or longbow range and activated it, and their target started roasting instantly. This also works well even without coordination because it works even if I'm not attacking the same target as someone else. Both targets are set ablaze anyway. Also affects NPC allies. :)

Warning: Unfortunately this is not perfect; there is one downside...and that is redundancy. Because burning stacks duration, and not intensity, you can't do any more than 100% uptime of burning on an enemy. So if someone else has a burn-heavy build, you may cancel each other out a bit. This could be avoided through coordination, though...say you had 2 dungeon mobs and people alternate aoe attacks on both of them, etc.

Seems super useful!
 
Not just you. Shield does a little more healing, but focus seems to prot better.
 
I like the shield over the focus. But I think that's because I use a mace with my shield. If I were using the scepter I think I'd roll that with a focus.

I'm still trying to figure out what exactly I want to do with my Guardian. I don't like the ranged options for Guardians. Staff is clunky, and doesn't support very well. The Orb heal is troublesome to use effectively and the boons are only Swiftness and Might. The DNC line is fun, but there are only a few times when the enemy can't run around it. The Scepter is alright, providing modest DPS and the snare, but still not a DPS powerhouse.

So right now I'm running Greatsword and M/Sh which has turned out to be fairly effective. The Greatsword is undoubtedly the DPS machine for Guardians, and I'm finding that M/Sh is one of the better options for support/survivability. But I also want to experiment a little more. I think Sword/Torch would be a good DPS alternative as well, seeing as the sword has almost identical abilities to the Greatsword while also being able to get an offhand in there as well.
 
Sword/Torch is definitely a decent DPS combo...and if that's what you're going for, it's very nice to swap to between GS skill recharges. I do agree most of the staff skills are a bit clunky. I think I'm going to try out a hand/offhand combo, though...been stuck in GS/staff for too long. Plus that will give me competence in an option should I want to drop the GS and go full support somewhere.I'm no expert with a staff, but here's some things I do with staff skills for anyone looking to use one.

The TL;DR here is indirect damage, indirect protection, and crowd control. These things work very well in conjunction with direct damage and protection boosts that the guardian has for utility...but also require some creativity and adaptive thinking to make useful.

Wave of Wrath - No surprise, this does well when a lot of mobs are present. It's a great skill for cheesing tons of kill credit in both general PvE and WvW. One thing to note, though, is that when you're rolling 15 radiance, each and every kill credit will recharge it. So, you're indirectly dolling out fire damage to pretty much the entire mob through your uncoordinated allies, along with a blind and vulnerability on a target of your choosing. Switch targets often for even better effect.

...and that's just the auto-attack. /roar

Orb of Light - Not a lot to say here, other than it's a nice multi-function thing. It does pass through enemies, so you can get that going and still detonate the heal.

Symbol of Swiftness - This skill is very underrated. Anyone who has tried the dungeons knows that mobility is very useful for kiting enemies and staying alive, or at least getting back to your lines before you die. It's hard to keep up full time, though. This puppy gives you an AoE ward for 4 seconds that anyone can run through to get. Nice. This essentially covers 12 out of 15 seconds due to the duration and pulse. Probably the biggest downside here is that you need either good targeting or good coordination. Drop it in the path of a fleeing ally. Call it when you cast it, let folks know, etc. Use it to get your entire team away from a chokepoint in WvW. Or just randomly drop it in the middle of the fray if you have nothing better to do. The possibilities are great. Between this and "Retreat!" you can have a very swift team.

Be aware SoS does nothing if ally already has swiftness. May be a bug.

Empower - Might is mighty. This bad boy drops 12 stacks of might over a 600 range over a 4 second pulse...and the heal at the end is very big for an aoe heal of that size. Might creates a lot of damage, especially if you are using in conjunction with some vulnerability. Nothing special about the usage here, other than use early and often.

Line of Warding - I think this is the most useful mobility skill I've found. Be aware this stops enemies by knocking them down when they try to cross...so those with stability can pass. About to hit a new room in AC and going to get rushed? Drop LoW, they are conveniently stopped and ready to be beaten down. Are they chasing a player? Drop a line. Want to stop a quick zerg rush in WvW dead in its tracks? Easy to do at a chokepoint. Want to stop players from fleeing and tasting your wrath? Drop LoW behind them. Very useful!

Anyway, That's my input...I'm no expert so I'm sure others have some things to add. I just hit 60 so it's time for new weapon sets, and I'm going to make a point of experimenting with focus/shield/etc.
 
What are you using for your self-heal? I'm finding that the 3 Guardian heal skills are very unsatisfying. Shelter heals for too low and the block doesn't make up for it. Healing Breeze is awkward, and the ally heal isn't worth it either as you don't want to put your self-heal on cool down to heal someone else. Signet of Resolve isn't bad, but it isn't great either. I'm finding, since I'm Human, that Prayer to Dwayna is the most heal for the recharge. But I know that other races don't have that option.

Hidden question: How else do you stay alive with the seemingly lackluster self-heals?
 
For heal skill, I use the signet. It isn't perfect, but the other two really need some work for exactly the reasons you described. Healing is decent, recharge is pretty good at at 24s if you run the signet recharge trait @ 10 radiance (which I usually do), and I really like the passive condition removal. Once every 10 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it actually translates to a new condition being removed from you after 5 seconds, on average. Prayer to Dwayna looks interesting, but as you pointed out, not available to my Charrdian. But hey, at least I LOOK tough!

As with anything build-wise...below stuff fits my play style. Any additional ideas are welcome!

Tl;DR: On staying alive...Guardian doesn't really have any single uber heals outside of Tome of Courage, but they have so, so many ways to mitigate damage while buffing allies...so at least with my play style, it's "I still have skills in reserve? cool, GET OVER HERE!" or "active heals/prot running low...should probably start kiting, staffing, while these beasties recharge". Tons of boons and damage reduction let you roll like a SY build in GW1 - you are able to use small heals because that's all you need. I also like shouts because they are instant, such as the oh-so-useful "Stand Your Ground" that will instantly get you up from an otherwise-fatal knockdown.

Ultimately, you should never, ever die as a guardian while you still have unused skills. It's less of a function of your health bar, and more of a function of getting away when you're running low on things. I hope that sums it up...I am not a terse man.

General Melee

This is just random stuff I've learned so far that would pretty much apply to any up-close fighting, even if someone isn't a melee spec. Probably the most useful thing I've learned is to pay attention to who is being attacked. I probably mitigate more damage here than any other way. This stuff might be obvious, but it has surely helped me! Would love to hear anything I missed.

Don't stand beside your ally! - If you attack two enemies standing beside one another, you hit them both. The same is true for enemies. We all love each other and all, but standing on top of your buddy means that the enemy will hit you both when attacking either, generally meaning double damage. Even worse if there are more of you. Instead you should...

Move behind/beside/whatever an enemy - This avoids all damage from most attacks, and has the bonus feature of making it very easy to see who the baddie is targeting. A lot of the time you can simply stand there and unleash just because it's the other poor sap who is being targeted. Should the mob turn around towards you...it's time to..

Move evasively - Many attacks in this game are slow and you can avoid them as simply as circling the enemy or doing a figure 8. Enemies also will often chase for a teeny bit, reducing the amount of attacks...good old kiting. Enemies do not move evasively, on the other hand, so you can continue to pound on them. Some people (not me) like binding their Q and E key to the A and D keys as well to make this easier. "Figure 8" (not sure if that is a good term) is good because you can run through the enemy, ducking behind them as they attack. Your toon will instantly turn around to attack without missing a beat.

Holding the keys to evasively maneuver while simultaneously using skills can be difficult...though it's sometimes more important to move and auto-attack than it is to fire off an attack skill. One thing you could do is click the skills while moving. I cheat with my Razer Naga - all 10 skill buttons plus dodge right there on the side. Great mouse!

Dodging - Yeah, obviously dodging well is important...that takes practice along with knowing the area you're in. Obviously you want to use this for the bigger ground pounds/etc, but it's very useful for "getting out of Dodge". (reverse "yo dawg"?)

One fun trick with dodging is to jump at the same time. Not only does this make you look and feel like a superstar, but you actually gain total speed in doing so, because the air time + dodge speed moves you further than a regular dodge would. Flip jumping while running around will impress your friends and is great for those frequent trips from the Trade Post to the Bank. Bonus points if doing off a ledge (more airtime) or over an obstacle. It takes a little practice to get the timing right at first, but once you do it's pretty easy to do consistently.

Speaking practically...are you in mortal danger? Why not double back-flip out of danger while simultaneously whipping out one's staff to lay down some wards? Also, you can flip through cripple! Same goes for any leap/movement skill. Between air time of flipping and average 5s passive condition removal, it is rare that cripple actually slow me down at all.

In short, melee in GW2 isn't about being punched in the face so that your friends don't have to...they'll just punch you down and THEN hit your friends. Instead, stay healthy and be a hero if they go down. Two are better than one, because when one falls down, he can pick the other back up. Guardians are good at this.

Speaking of...

Guardian Stuff

Here's the stuff I'm running, not always all at the same time. As I've mentioned, I like shouts, and I like virtues. All of these things can be cast instantly. Nice. I typically run this bar:
Signet of Resolve, "Save Yourselves!", "Hold the Line!", "Stand Your Ground!", and Renewed Focus.

Current traits are 15 radiance (reduced signet charge), 30 Honor (reduced shout recharge, protective reviver, Pure of Voice to convert a condition to a boon for me and allies). Planning on probably going 5 honor rest Virtues.

Reviving - There are two very nice traits in the Honor line for this. Resolute Healer casts SoA as soon as you start reviving a dead or downed player, pushing foes away and stopping projectiles. Makes it VERY easy to res. Protective reviver gives both you and the downed player 10s of aegis, protection, and regen once they're up. Nice. Using both of these makes you an absolute resurrecting machine. If your teammates die often enough, you don't need any other skills for protection! :D If not, you're probably doing well as a team anyway. I've heard healing power helps with reviving, have not yet confirmed.

Aegis/Virtue of Courage - Lots of sources of Aegis. Aegis essentially gives you one free block. VoC should have given you a free one before battle; get in the habit of using it again when you need it. Don't be like me for the first 50 levels and let your virtues be completely passive. With Renewed Focus you're taking three aegis into battle, even before anything recharges. This is super helpful against the hard-hitters. With 5 points in virtues, you also get protection when using VoC.

Signet of Resolve - Not a lot to talk about here...I hit this about when I get half health. At that point I've probably already spent SY and HtL, so it's time to cartwheel out of there. In fact, you should probably already be bravely running away.

"Save Yourselves!" - Seriously, every boon but stability for 10 seconds + Virtues bonus? Sheesh. In low-danger environments I use this to boost damage. In high danger I will use this (after spending Hold the Line, due to recharges) as a prot/regen. I'll use these skills after I start to lose a little health...don't want to dip too low and get desperate. Zipping around an enemy is never easier than when you have 10-13 seconds of swiftness.

"Hold the Line!" - Affects allies, prot and regen, decently large range. This is the first thing I use once I start to take damage, due to helping allies and a lower recharge than SY.

"Stand Your Ground!" - Knockdown and the like are super, super dangerous; you can die before you get up. Not anymore. You don't even need to pre-prot this puppy, because it's a shout. I've tested and confirmed that this will instantly get you back on your feet, should you get knocked down. Retaliation is nice when a big enemy ground pounds.

Renewed Focus - I can't speak for Tome of Courage; will be unlocking soon. Tome of Wrath is fun with the KD, but losing out on heals and res is awful...found myself seldom using. I like RF. If all other options fail, hand jam your F1-F3 keys at the same time and then cast it...recharges them and makes you invulnerable for a few precious seconds.

All in all, I try to use protection when I need it, don't use anything if I don't (standing behind target), etc. By moving around and evading, it's rare that the bag of tricks is coming up empty.
 
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