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Often times this subject seems to create a stir between Christians with some saying "Jesus drank wine!" and others saying "Alcohol is a sin, no matter the amount!". So I'll state my view on the topic, and you guys do the same if you wish. Hopefully we can create good conversation about this topic, and perhaps even get a few points clear.

So, as stated, here is my view on the topic. During the times of Jesus, I am fully aware that the wine they drank was probably not as full of alcohol as today's wines. I also am aware that during such times, they had to distill their water into low grade forms of alcohol in order to make it drinkable, and during such process I would imagine they added various fruits, including grapes, to make it taste slightly better. So on my view, I don't see the issue with drinking alcohol, as long as its not to the point of drunkenness. I believe the loss of control of ones self is what makes it a sin, since when we are drunk we don't know, in most cases, what we do or don't do.

One of the first threads I ever posted in was a poll on communion wine in the What Does God Say About section (found here). There is a lot of good information there.

I believe alcohol is permitted but not to excess (like anything else?). It is NOT permitted for Pastors. And as stated in the linked thread, I 100% believe the "wine" consumed during the Lord's Supper is and should be pure unfermented grape juice.
Love this topic. In fact, I've created a drinking game where I have a shot everytime someone posts this to the forum section. (No drunkenness has occurred yet, thankfully)
Yay the drinking game! Time for some more of that home brew Tanzanian porter our missionaries made to raise support at the church.
Sounds like a fun practice, Lloren.

Just a reminder - this is What Does God Say About... not What Do I Think About... Granted, we want more than scripture quotes - it is okay to discuss our conclusions from the scriptures. But let's make sure we at least try to keep our comments based (even if just a little bit) on scriptures.

Just in the comments so far - let's be careful. Wine back then - even 2,000 years before Jesus, had plenty of alcohol in it - enough for Lot to get so stinking drunk he didn't realize his daughters were having sex with him - and that was wine he made himself.

Also, I have never heard of making low grade alcohol from a water purification process. As far as I can tell, Jesus is the only one who turned water into wine. I work with a lot of winos and if it could be done they would be doing it.

Finally, if wine is okay in moderation for anyone - it would also be okay for pastors. Pastors are people, too. Timothy was a pastor and Paul specifically told him to try a little wine.

I don't drink - by choice. I have plenty of reasons, including honoring God with my body, but you won't find a specific commandment saying, "Don't drink," in the Bible.
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1 Corinthians 8:9-13
But beware lest somehow this liberty of yours become a stumbling block to those who are weak. 10 For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol’s temple, will not the conscience of him who is weak be emboldened to eat those things offered to idols? 11 And because of your knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? 12 But when you thus sin against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble.
As I pointed out in the previous thread, Wine was a generic term for fruit of the vine, fermented and unfermented. Just because it says wine does not mean it's alcoholic any more than asking for a Coke in the south means you won't get a Dr. Pepper or a Sprite. It's a generic term.

I also pointed out that 1 Timothy 3:3 and 8 show a difference in Pastor (Bishop) and deacon in the amount of wine they may consume. One is not give to wine and the other is not given to much wine. If you would believe the explanation of some commentaries, it would have to mean that it's ok for a deacon to get tipsy.

Pastors are people and are human just like the rest of us, but they must be blameless and above reproach according to 1 Timothy. And Luke 12:48 tells us that to whom much is given (like the office of Pastor), of him shall be much required (like higher standards).

But really, this is just a rehash of an old thread. Hash, rehash and spam all count the same...

Can we get this thread moved?
I'm with you Wolfeman - this was thoroughly hashed and thrashed just a couple of months ago.

Anyone interested can read through the thread here.
Hmm. I didn't see any mention of a thread like this in the "What does God say about..." section, but my apologies for making a new one.
Ephesians 5:18 and Galatians 5:21 make this fairly clear,
it's okay to drink wine/alcohol but don't get drunk or let it control you.
And as someone else posted, don't let your freedom cause a weaker one to stumble.

I never drink anything other than water if I'm around someone struggling with alcohol.

Posted from my Android phone.
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Love this topic. In fact, I've created a drinking game where I have a shot everytime someone posts this to the forum section. (No drunkenness has occurred yet, thankfully)



Considering In John 2 Mary asked her Son to make wine for the wedding at Cana, and Melchizedek offered the Lord wine and bread, I don't see anything generally wrong with wine or alcohol. It was used to celebrate, in Ruth. And often Christ referenced wineskins and wine. And St. Paul tells Timothy in his first letter to using a little wine with his water. Even as a metaphor, why would Paul use wine?

The Lord, apparently, used alcohol. Enough so that he was criticised by the Pharisees for it. In contrast, John the Baptist used none. ;)

Matt.11 Verses 18 to 19 (RSV) said:
[18] For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, `He has a demon';
[19] the Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, `Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds."

There is a time and a place for alcohol. As the Christian apologist Gilbert Keith Chesterton once said, “Drink because you are happy, but never because you are miserable.... Never drink because you need it, for this is rational drinking, and the way to death and hell. But drink because you do not need it, for this is irrational drinking, and the ancient health of the world."

Wine was used in celebration, and not sorrow, in the OT.

That said, personally the only alcohol I drink is the Blood on Sunday. Otherwise I just stay away from it.
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Well, I think we know where Icthus stands on the issue. :)

I have nothing personal to contribute to the thread, because:
  1. Good alcohol is expensive and I've yet to find a drink I like well enough to justify the expense.
  2. I'm hypoglycemic and, if my understanding of chemistry and anatomy is correct, alcohol turns to sugar in the human body very, very quickly.
In other words: I hardly ever drink alcohol at all and, if I do, drink very small amounts, but my reasons have little, if anything, to do with morality.

Yet I agree that drunkenness is explicitly and implicitly forbidden in Scripture and that those in positions of spiritual authority must be especially careful of how their actions reflect on Christ, even to the point of refusing to drink any alcohol (though that refusal should be a personal decision rather than a mandate enforced by another).

It's not difficult to imagine a situation where refusing to drink alcohol (in moderation, of course) to toast or celebrate in another culture would do more harm than good. This is just one more reason why it's essential we draw near to God so we can hear Him clearly when we need guidance in situations where a question is not explicitly answered in the Bible.
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LOL, Lloren, that is HILARIOUS.

It's been said that C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien smoked cigars and sipped Brandy while discussing apologetics...whether that's true or not I don't know.

As others have said, the line is drawn at drunkeness.
Overindulgence in any one thing, whether it be food (drunkenness), food (gluttony), or even video games (slothen? Lazy? Irresponsible?) is a problem. But food, drink, and games can all have their place in moderation.

I think the key lays in personal conviction and creating stumbling blocks for others, as well. If I am convicted about drinking at all, I should not do it. If I am not convicted about drinking, it is permissible as long as I did not drink to drunkenness or cause a brother to stumble with my casual partaking.