A simple question.....

Arkanjel

Arkanjel

New Member
This question is being asked to those who are skeptics of the reality of the Bible, and the divinity of Jesus the Christ.

I ask you this, perchance christianity really is nothing more than a bunch of myths and fables. In following this lifestyle I have lived a frutiful life and happy life. If it isn't a reality what have I missed out on? On the other hand if christianity IS a reality and every word in the Bible IS true, what have YOU missed out on?

Are you willing to take that gamble, and risk eternal damnation?

Just a question.....

In Christ,
Gabriel
 
Ah the ignorance is bliss question.. Well the obvious answer for the religion side of things is that if Christianity turns out to be 'wrong,' you die and then want to get into heaven and God says too bad, wrong choice. Only, he'd say it in a more godly fashion of course. The real question here is this: is there one true answer, and how important is finding out what that answer is?
 
Im sorry, you have answered a question with a question. That is not what I asked. Just answer the question as it is posed, as you would have me do the same if it was you asking the question.
 
Well that question essentially encapsulates my answer. Honestly I wish I knew the answer, but I don't. I probably never will. But to answer your question directly, while I do believe that happiness is the ultimate goal in life, I would not choose to adopt what I believe to be a false in order to achieve that goal. But like I said, that's not the real question.
 
Yes, I am.  I suppose you might think that that's merely arrogance talking, and while I won't rule out the possibility that it is, I shall stick to it until reason shows me otherwise.  Also, asking someone if they are willing to risk not getting into heaven would probably be a more effective approach..  ; )
 
Asking someone if "they are not willing to get into heaven" is a politically correct way to approach it, yes. However I am a realist and therefore am not politically correct. I call a spade, a spade. The main problem with this country today is the PC police are on every corner. Beware what you say and how you say it or else.....It gets really old trying to make sure no ones feelings get hurt. I saw a readerboard the other day that just about sums it up. It said,"If the truth hurts, it because it's supposed to."
 
'Politically correct' has nothing to do with this. It's just a matter of positive or negative reinforcement. You are being negative, since you choose to exemplify the bad rather than the good. Not a very good mentality to be in, methinks.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]So you are willing to risk eternal damnation?
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Aren't we all risking this, by not being part of every religion? Every religion professes to be the 'true' religion.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]"I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other gods you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen F. Roberts
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Judaism, Christianity and the Moslem faiths all worship the same diety. But each also professes damnation for all but the faithful of their own brand of theism. What message does this send to non-believers?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Jim @ Sep. 02 2004,7:22)]
Judaism, Christianity and the Moslem faiths all worship the same diety. But each also professes damnation for all but the faithful of their own brand of theism. What message does this send to non-believers?
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Believe, LOL Wow thought fer sure you could of caught that message.
tounge.gif
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well the main difference with Christianity is that it's not a works based religion. It's not by our deeds that gets us in good graces with God but by Jesus's death and resurrection from the cross for our sins and short comings.

Many religions teach of being a good person that should be good enough.

So techncially what have we to lose? If we use Jesus as a role model we'll strive to be good people anyways. I guess it's like Pascal's Wager. But I don't plan on impressing God with my earthly resume and telling him why he needs me in heaven.
 
For those of you who aren't familiar with (French Philosopher Blaise)Pascal's wager, this basically sums it up:

If you gain, you gain all," Pascal argued. "If you lose, you lose nothing. Wager, then, without hesitation that He is."

One of the many problems with this is that one can't truly, sincerely believe in something "just to be on the safe side".  Can you see any of us sitting through a Catholic mass?  ::shudders::

So what do we have to lose?  George Smith sums it up nicely, "What have we got to lose? Intellectual integrity, self-esteem, and a passionate, rewarding life for starters. In short, everything that makes life worth living. Far from being a safe bet, Pascal's wager requires the wager of one's life and happiness."

To answer your question oh so bluntly, yes, we are willing to risk damnation.  You, on the other hand, have risked your life believing that you have made the right decisions.  Choosing theism over atheism, Christianity over all other religions, that particular brand of Christianity over all the options available to you, and finally the correct variations in doctrines that exist within the churches selected.  All of this based on a questionable book.  Now that's quite a bet.  I'd stay away from Vegas if I were you.

According to this wager, there are only two sides to the coin, believe or don't.  We've both made a gamble.  The difference, my friends, is that some of us made a reasonable, educated guess while others have taken a blind leap based on faith.

I wouldn't rely on Pascal's Wager too heavily, there are many, many problems with this bit of philosophy.  But, and I know you won't, don't take my word for it.  Do a quick Google search.

Mark Twain puts it far more eloquently that I can. Why would you want to believe in "...a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!"
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Sep. 02 2004,8:38)]well the main difference with Christianity is that it's not a works based religion.  It's not by our deeds that gets us in good graces with God but by Jesus's death and resurrection from the cross for our sins and short comings.

Many religions teach of being a good person that should be good enough.

So techncially what have we to lose?  If we use Jesus as a role model we'll strive to be good people anyways.  I guess it's like Pascal's Wager.  But I don't plan on impressing God with my earthly resume and telling him why he needs me in heaven.
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So what you're saying is that you don't have to do a single thing other than accept God?

Last time I checked, Christianity was STILL split over salvation through works or not.  So it's not quite a moot point.

I've brought this up before...what you're saying is that Stalin, Hitler, et al could have accepted Christ on their deathbed and are now sitting in heaven?  Who cares about the "earthly resume", eh?

Do you really think God wants his followers to have their fingers crossed just in case?

And just because we don't strive to follow Christ doesn't mean we aren't striving to be good people.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Dark Virtue @ Sep. 02 2004,11:23)]Mark Twain puts it far more eloquently that I can.  Why would you want to believe in "...a God who could make good children as easily a bad, yet preferred to make bad ones; who could have made every one of them happy, yet never made a single happy one; who made them prize their bitter life, yet stingily cut it short; who gave his angels eternal happiness unearned, yet required his other children to earn it; who gave his angels painless lives, yet cursed his other children with biting miseries and maladies of mind and body; who mouths justice, and invented hell--mouths mercy, and invented hell--mouths Golden Rules and forgiveness multiplied by seventy times seven, and invented hell; who mouths morals to other people, and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, then tries to shuffle the responsibility for man's acts upon man, instead of honorably placing it where it belongs, upon himself; and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites his poor abused slave to worship him!"
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*gives Mark Twain a few more notches of respect*
 
just uttering the words but not meaning it will not grant you salvation. God will not be mocked. If you truly confess and believe in Jesus as your savior your past sins will be forgiven and you will change your life.

I was watching criminal investigation show last night. This woman was sexually abused and murdered by her fiance'. It took 16 months to get the body recovered. Brought to trial and since there wasn't enough evidence he was found not guilty, walked away. A year later he sold his house and photos and jewlery with her blood were found. He confessed to the murder. But because of the double jeopardy clause was not tried as severley or for murder. They basically prosecuted him for lying to the court. A weak sentance was given. Well the sow ends with him being a born again Christian. I was shocked, I wanted to to see him pay. But that is not for me to judge. God will still judge him in the end. Yes if he meant it, he'll be in heaven. God has a purpose, maybe to show us how he truly does forgive those who do not deserve it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Sep. 02 2004,2:45)]just uttering the words but not meaning it will not grant you salvation.  God will not be mocked.  If you truly confess and believe in Jesus as your savior your past sins will be forgiven and you will change your life.  
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And that is exactly why Pascal's Wager does not work.
 
but still even though I pay no respects to the other gods wouldn't I get good karma for being a nice person etc?
 
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