A question for those who don't hold Christ as Savior

[MeridianFlight]

I am going to stop you here because you are using this as the foundation for your argument. Unfortunately, it's not a solid foundation because, for some reason you have yet to explain, you believe that atheism somehow leads to nihilism, or more specifically, to baseless values.

Would you mind explaining this?

I just did if you read on, though it's not as cohesive as it should be because I was slightly exhausted. I will expand on it, but I'd like to see your opinion on why you believe this isn't true.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Now now, you're the one stating the positive.

Follow through on your thought and I'll be more than happy to give you my reasoning.

 

[Jeshurun]

Prayer does not make you "feel better". It's the answer that does. We walk in faith and not by sight. If you seek to understand our belief in God. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. We all have many questions in this life that God has given each of us and all those answers we seek are written down in the bible inspired by the Holy Spirit of God. Seek there if you really want to understand the faith God has given us; for we that are christians are still learning the Truth of God ourselves. Faith in God is more than words, it is action. But You were a christian at one point so what is it you seek to gain by ingaging us in conversation here? The reason why I ask you this is because as you said in another post quote, "been there, done that" so what is your point? Also I really wonder whats the point of even conversing with you if that is the case. Read the Word of God and whenever you can listen to it because faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Have faith, and believe. Please come back I pray to whom you once believed in.

 

[Dark Virtue]

But isn't it true that not all prayer is answered?

If you pray for your relative to be healed, yet they die, how does that answer make you feel better?

Do you not engage in conversation with Christians? Do you not attend Church services? What do you gain by conversing with your fellow man? How am I supposed to understand you if I don't converse with you? How are you to understand me if you don't converse with me? Don't be so closed minded that you think you understand everyone else's point of view without being willing to converse with them.

I would hope that you could see the gains in conversing with not only those that share your views, but with those who have dissenting opinions. If you choose not to respect my opinions, that's fine. But don't expect me to respect yours.

 

[ChickenSoup]

If you pray for your relative to be healed, yet they die, how does that answer make you feel better?

All right, the "Isn't it true that not all prayers are answered" thing is R-O-N-G. There's answers- yes or no. And the relative-to-be-healed, sure I'd be upset but that's because they died. Like I posted on other threads, God's ways are not the ways of our own. He has a reason, and whether we have the capacity to understand WHY He did it or not doesn't matter: He does everything for a reason.

 

[Eon]

Unfortunately we also have Free Will, which sort of demands that we do things for a good reason.

Placing your trust in a being who might just leave you high and dry for reasons that he won't bother to explain to you... Well... That's just a little too much of a reach for me.

And don't say we are incapable of understanding Gods plan. God is omniscient and omnipotent. He could explain it to us if he cared to. There is NOTHING he can't do - so he could either have designed us capable of understanding it, made a simpler plan that we could divine or else come up with a way of understanding his current plan.

He chose not to.

The inescapable conclusion is that God wishes to be unknowable. Think about that for awhile.

 

[Dark Virtue]

All right, the "Isn't it true that not all prayers are answered" thing is R-O-N-G. There's answers- yes or no. And the relative-to-be-healed, sure I'd be upset but that's because they died. Like I posted on other threads, God's ways are not the ways of our own. He has a reason, and whether we have the capacity to understand WHY He did it or not doesn't matter: He does everything for a reason.

Do you ALWAYS get a yes or no answer? How do you konw what the answer is? A soft little voice? A feeling in your gut? How does that work, exactly?

Keep in mind that my post was in direct response to another post, and thus, was tailored specifically to that post.

If you agree with jesh's "feeling better" response, I'd like to know how prayers that affect pain and suffering to continue make you "feel better". If you don't subscribe to that theory, then please let jesh answer.

Thanks!

 

[Azzie]

In my opinion, God's answers number 3.

Yes.
No.
Wait.

For me individually, God answers by reason. If it's logical AND Biblical, it's God speaking. One without the other does not work for me. Feeling, in my opinion, is too often misleading for me to trust.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Ah, so Satan doesn't use logic?

Check out the serpent in the Garden, that's a pretty good example of a logical argument.

 

[MeridianFlight]

Now now, you're the one stating the positive.

Follow through on your thought and I'll be more than happy to give you my reasoning.

I think I have though, it's just scattered throughout this thread and at least one other place.

I don't believe from an atheist perspective you can logically base values on anything. You have no authority to hold to, no competent authority anyway. Therefore, atheism leads to the baseless aspect of nihilism. It's a logical conclusion. Follow the road.

What I find unnerving is the state of the end of the road, if you will. That's why I asked the question, assuming others had reached this point. How do you find hope when there really isn't anything to draw hope from? How do you get up in the morning, knowing that everything is just one gigantic accident, and everything is ultimately insignificant? After all, one asteroid could end it all. So could a nutcase who starts tossing ICBMs like darts. Maybe aliens hiding underground on Mars, waiting for the perfect opportunity to attack (somebody needs to start stockpiling Super Soakers if they're like the type from Signs).

So, if you will, please, provide an argument to the contrary. I've seen you post before that there can be moral absolutes with atheism, but it was in response to a broad set of questions posed by a Christian Apologetics website I believe, and you didn't elaborate. You just stated it was possible. Some great thinkers from the atheist line have admitted that atheism leaves a moral vaccum in its wake. I'm interested in seeing a coutner proposal to this.

 

[MeridianFlight]

Ah, so Satan doesn't use logic?

Check out the serpent in the Garden, that's a pretty good example of a logical argument.

That's not an example of a logical argument. It's an example of using deception to mask the preposterous as logic. By not disclosing the repurcussions of such a decision, the ridiculously absurd becomes "logical."

You have no idea how much restraint it takes right now to add a quip about how evolutionists employ a similar strategy...but then the thread would just devolve into a shouting match where both sides claim unsubstantiated victory and accuse the opposition of being ignorant minded zealots drowning in a sea of lies...aye, fun stuff that.

 

[Master~Plan]

Placing your trust in a being who might just leave you high and dry

I can testify that God has never left me "high and dry". I can also vouch that no christian I know has ever been left "high and dry."

 

[Dark Virtue]

That's not an example of a logical argument. It's an example of using deception to mask the preposterous as logic. By not disclosing the repurcussions of such a decision, the ridiculously absurd becomes "logical."

You have no idea how much restraint it takes right now to add a quip about how evolutionists employ a similar strategy...but then the thread would just devolve into a shouting match where both sides claim unsubstantiated victory and accuse the opposition of being ignorant minded zealots drowning in a sea of lies...aye, fun stuff that.

Go for it, I'm not an evolutionist and I would probably share your views.

 

[Dark Virtue]

I can testify that God has never left me "high and dry". I can also vouch that no christian I know has ever been left "high and dry."

Define "high and dry" because I know many Christians, including myself, that would disagree with you.

The Christians huddled in a church as the tsunami bore down on them, wiping them all out, that would be a good example.

Or the Christians that were murdered IN CHURCH, AS THEY WORSHIPPED GOD, by a gunman, that would be another example.

 

[Eon]

Or those of us who hit a crisis of faith, prayed and went unanswered.