A peaceful Guild Wars petition thoughts?

Jamon stated my thoughts exactly: make a different symbol. I mean, they talk about how they created an entire new world... well, make a new symbol. pentagram is over used, too. It's not like it's not fun to create symbols.
 
Although I would liek to see these changed it isn't like it bothers me. If people would realize that it is just a game then they wouldn't have to worry about it. It doesn't offened me in any way shape or form. So if it stays then that is fine, but if it doesn't then that's fine to.
 
I agree that there's no precedent for a pentagram in the Guild Wars world. Using occult symbols to appeal to gamers ignorant of the importance of symbols demonstrates a lack of creative talent or refusal to exert that talent. id constructed Quake 3 and Doom 3 on the same lazy principle of "People think occult symbols are cool," turning away Christians and adding little to nothing to the game's artistic value.

Considering the incredible artwork in Guild Wars, I find it difficult to believe that their art department is so bereft of creative talent as to (1) introduce an inconsistency in the game, stating that the world of Guild Wars holds no ties to present-day earth but still utilizes the symbol of an earth religion and (2) lack the skill to create a simple replacement symbol.

This is just one more instance of artists lazily borrowing symbols without considering the impact of said symbols and furthermore refusing to consider the values of Christians. I believe that game developers will continue to dismiss the concerns of Christian gamers and Christian gamers will continue to purchase games using occult symbols in supposedly "alternate" worlds. Christian gamers lack the solidarity to boycott a game; we, as a demographic, will rarely even make the effort to open a dialogue with developers as to how they might better appeal to Christians without alienating others.

In short, game developers do not care what Christians think, and they will not start to care what Christians think any time soon. I personally think Guild Wars is a fantastic game, but their use of a pentagram represents a flaw not only in their philosophy, but also their creation of an "alternate" world and their marketing strategy.

What never ceases to amaze is the blatant hypocrisy in our culture: If a game presented a priest wearing a gold cross or trinity symbol, I assure you that so-called "equality" groups would petition the game developers to remove the symbol and likely get their way. Such groups consider "equality" a world where all religious beliefs are equal, with the exception of Christianity. The proliferation of anti-semitic and anti-Christian groupthink is certainly nothing new to American culture and will not cease any time soon.

I applaud CCGR and IBJamon for their efforts, but I can not honestly say that I hold high hopes that the developers will replace the symbol. Even though replacing the graphic is likely a simple process that would gain favor with many Christians, the developers likely view even this simple effort unnecessary to maintain their Christian customers. Christian gamers, sadly enough, will likely reply with the same, "Whatever, it's just a game" attitude and confirm that offending Christians does not affect sales.

CCGR: I wish you and IBJamon the best with your petition. If the game developers decide to startle me and break the trend of dismissing Christian opinion, please let me know.
 
Yeah, it's a fantasy world, why throw in religious symbols from the real world? I guess the sight of a pentagram in a game doesn't offend me so much, it's a representation of Satan, and it's sick, but should I be afraid of it? I don't think so. What power does Satan have over me? Anyway, I hope it gets removed, but I doubt it will.
 
Tek7 said:
"Whatever, it's just a game."
Click to expand...

I think that comes down to how a christian gamer is affected by games. Personally, I would play games like doom or any games that have occult symbols ect. Why? Because those types of things dont bother me as a christian. If you are affected by these things, then by all means speak up about it. I will support you. Good luck with the petition you two.
 
I posted a rather long-winded rebuttal of the two most popular arguments presented against the change. I hope it is recieved in the academic spirit in which it was presented.

And I'll note here also, Deathly Swarm is not worth casting anyway.
 
A wonderfully written thread, and a perfectly reasonable request. Shame it won't happen.

Even if you were to gain popular support (which is unlikely, given the amount of anti-Christian angst that crops up whenever a topic like that is generated), AN would not be likely to change it.

It would create a kind of slippery-slope effect. Soon, an Islamic person could complain that one of the guild emblems is a cross, and that gets removed. However, my biggest complaint about the game thusfar has to do with the storyline. (SPOLIERS AHEAD)

As it turns out, the closest representation to a "church" type organization (the White Mantle) is simply a power-hungry group of murderers, masquerading as the upholders of all things good, obeying their "unseen masters". This representation is far more dangerous than any religious symbol, as it reinforces the stereotype that all churches have impure ulterior motives. (END SPOILERS)

So, the choice is to simply ignore it, complain, or stop playing the game. It's a shame that AN (and almost all RPG makers) stereotypically use religion as something that the good people must eliminate.
 
Unfortunately this will pass thru deaf ears most likely. They haven't even responded to my 2 requests on another "artform". Only reason I haven't pursued further the request that they change a certain piece of artwork displayed in post-sear Ascalon and The Breach (some of you heard me "complain" in guildchat) is that I will get the same type of responses to my posting as you are getting in yours. I find this piece to be borderline porn and unneccesary. At least put clothes on these women! But the world view accepts this as normal these days and it saddens me.
 
Unfortunately, it looks like the thread has devolved into a flame war.

I believe sending letters of petition directly to the game developer would serve better than posting a poll on public forums. I have learned, in over six years of experience leading a Christian gaming group, that many (not all) gamers swallow mainstream humanistic philosophy whole and angrily protest even the existence of a Christian gaming group. There are, of course, many people, Christian and non-Christian, who have defended the validity of a fellowship based on a common faith; I appreciate their support. The people that criticize Christians for intolerance, close-mindedness, and hypocrisy make hateful generalizations of all members of a worldwide religion: something I daresay many would call the height of intolerance, close-mindedness, and hypocrisy.

Again, I applaud your efforts. I encourage you not to give up in face of anti-Christian sentiment. I advise using different methods, appealing to the game developer's profit margin rather than appealing to reason: make minor changes to the game and sell copies to many Christians who refuse to purchase games containing occult symbols. Including the symbols adds nothing to the game; it only subtracts from the number of copies sold.

Ignore the "It's just a symbol" and "It's just a game" arguments and go straight to the heart of the developer's interest: money. Game developers are more businesspeople than artists. The video game industry is less and less concerned with artistic value and gameplay and more concerned with turning a profit. Change the symbol, increase profits. It's that simple.
 
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i agree it is somewhat offensive, but the whole necro class is evil so why is everyone suprised when there are satanic and evil symbols associated with them? personally i will just avoid the necro class and that will solve the problem :) (no offense to any necros in the guild)
 
Perhaps a petition for implementation of a content filter is more appropriate? That way, people could choose whether or not to view the graphics in question. This would appeal to the growing "family-friendly" "values voters" demographic while allowing other gamers to continue their experience uninterrupted.

Epic Games (much <3 for Epic, by the way) offers an option to disable violent graphics and "mature" (a misnomer, if you think about it) taunts in Unreal Tournament 2004. Those wanting to view flying body parts and listen to profanity may. Those who prefer not to view and hear such content may disable it. Both parties are pleased.

(A personal aside: I have all blood, gore, and mature taunts disabled in UT2004 and I thoroughly enjoy the game--moreso because such content is filtered.)

Implementing such a filter would also answer complaints about female characters wearing too little clothing. The developer has a terrific opportunity to expand their target audience and gain goodwill with Christian gamers. The move is sensible as it pleases one party without upsetting another.

Will the developer implement such a filter? Highly unlikely. Why? Because, again, developers dismiss the opinions of Christians as "right-wing" and "prudish" and so on. What they fail to realize is how many Christians concern themselves with such content and will even refuse to buy a game from a developer that disregards their moral standards. It's not only Christians that are concerned with such content. Many parents are seeking to keep their children from such content during a child's childhood and adolescence.

The filter would not only benefit the community at large and resolve a growing debate, but also improve profits.
 
I have a necro, one is very cute and the other one is a good looking guy. Just cause we use curses and rituals doesn't mean that we are evil. Yes, I know "bone fiends and dark pacts" sound evil. But bone (insert minion name here) arent undead, they are just animations, "Animate Bone Fiend" - See? It's just stereotypical (that the right word?) to associate Necromancers with evil. They just like black magic. Bible says that magic is bad (or shouldnt be used) - I forget the verse, but most if not all the classes use magic. Even monks!

But the graphics - eh well. It doesn't bother me. Gives me a reason to 'preach' to those Guild's who use those symbols : )
 
Sorry I haven't posted on this topic yet... I wanted to use the right words... I feel this is an important topic.

First thing... SoE will continue, as will I continue to be your leader. ToJ is a ministry as is SoE. I believe SoE was not an accident, nor was WildBill and Tek finding SoE and inviting us as part of this ministry. God has a plan for ToJ, greater than we could know, and I am honored to be part of that. My hope is that all our members feel the same.

Second... I'm going to speak here with logic... my logic is foolishness so don't weigh it too greatly. Neither a pentagram nor a goat is satanic... but both can be... and together they most certainly are satanic. Pentagrams have been used for many things.. pentagrams have even been used as a Christian symbol, just as many of our current Christian symbols have been used for witchcraft. But when you put both this evil goat and the pentagram together is represents a specific demon... this demon is real, and is an angel who now follows satan.

Lastly... If ToJ and SoE can be a voice... let us be that. Filters or changed grafix would be great, souls saved would be even greater.

I feel like I have more to say... maybe later I will.

Justin
 
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