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Guest
Guest
So you don't "grovel". Sounds to me like you have found a derogatory word for humility.[b said:
Satan's Sin was Pride. Now, what is it that you are inflicted with that you can find an insulting term for humility?
Satan's Sin was Pride. Now, what is it that you are inflicted with that you can find an insulting term for humility?
Kidan
Moderator
Leo what would you call it? Instead of going to CHrist with your sins, and seeking and receiving forgiveness from the source, you, as a Catholic, take your sin to some priest, who tells you how to work off your sin. You go to some human begging for forgiveness. As a Christian you should be going to your REAL PRIEST, Jesus, for forgiveness.
hmm....are you saying I'm prideful? GOSH! you've hurt me there. I best go humble and prostrate myself before some guy and beg for help and forgiveness
....oh wait, that's the definition of grovel....
hmm....are you saying I'm prideful? GOSH! you've hurt me there. I best go humble and prostrate myself before some guy and beg for help and forgiveness
....oh wait, that's the definition of grovel....
G
Guest
Guest
As I persist in saying, it is the height of arrogance to expect the King of Kings to come down to serve little worms like you.[b said:
Christ established the Church and a Hierarchy in both Heaven and Earth. You want your sins to be forgiven, then there is a legitimate process. Christ sits on the Right Hand of God. Until you can rise up to Heaven and stand before God and His Son at His Right Hand (your left) then it does not seem likely that He can be forgiving any of your sins, does it? However, you can go to His delegated Authority for such things -- no, not the Parish Priest -- he is in charge of the entire Parish and is probably too busy to hear just your confession. You can find some low ranking new priest just fresh from being ordained, and hope he will find time for you. Because, you see, it is a privelege to have your confession heard.
Prots are full of all sorts of magical thinking, as long as it is convenient for them. They can think that Christ will magically drop everything to go flying off in spirit to proud Prots who still have the blood of The Church on their hands, and who willingly keep Him on the Cross Forever, since they willfully renounce Righteousness and seem to boast that they are Sinners -- they will not atone for themselves and so keep The Lord nailed up to atone for them. This you are willing to believe. But it is simply too fantastic to believe that The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ (The Vine and the Branches from Scripture) and that all duties, and obligations are to it, as well as all consolations and graces are from it.
By relying on the invisible -- not your Faith but your imagination -- you are relying on nothing. You think your Faith can bring Christ down from Heaven to babysit you. That is very big Faith. So, if you have that kind of Faith -- walk on water. If you have that kind of Faith -- go to the hospital and raise some dead. There are blind people -- heal them. We don't have lepers, but with that big faith of yours you could fix up some MS Patients. No. You can't. Well, if you don't have Faith for the little things, why do you believe that you can summon The King of Kings to your bidding? As I said, you would have to call to make an appointment for the lowest Priest in the parish, but you think you can order Christ around. It bears repeating -- Pride is the mark of Protestants. They don't even relize they are being monstrously arrogant. Its not enough that you keep Christ suffering forever to do your penance for you because you refuse to do it yourself ("pick up your crosses and follow me" -- see how different Christ speaks then Paul), you think that Christ must wait on you hand and foot. Read the Gospel. Christ doesn't say He will come back to be Mr. Good Guy. He will come back as judge. And how do you think he will judge you for all of your demands?
There was the Man who volunteered to carry Christ's cross for him -- he is a Catholic. Then there were the Protestants who were screaming "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!"
Thaddius
Member
[b said:
When is the last time a catholic, healed the sick? Walked on water? turned water into wine? raise the dead?
You know and understand very little about non-catholic Christianity. You make all these accusations that are completly false. We do not call down Christ to wait on us hand and foot. We pray to the Father through Him as was commanded. You talk in nonsense leo, and try to play it off as fact.
The instructions were set forth, and the catholic church took them and completly twisted them to become the sacraligious powerhouse they are today. Your priests are not allowed to marry, yet they prey on young children. You pray to idols, not to Christ. The catholic church is even the reason so many pagan holidays are celibrated around the world, and most people don't even know what they are celebrating! Your church has lead millions astray, and slaughtered even more. All in the name of Christ.
Yet, in all your humility and rightiousness, you want to lay the blame on the protestants. Good for you, leo. If it is what you have to do to believe in a crooked church, then I pray that God would have mercy on you.
Peter was the head of a church leo, but it wasn't the catholic church. The church Peter started was in Jeruselem, not the Roman Catholic Church.
The Christ in my Bible was one of love, compasion, forgivness. I will follow that Christ, no other. I will not worship the dead. I will not beg a priest to forgive me. I will pray to Christ and He, as I am cleansed through Him.
Cory
Kidan
Moderator
but wait, you forget that we are co-heirs with Christ! WE are brothers and sisters of Christ, though He may be the King of Kings, we are the princes of HEaven.
The BIble also says that God loves us so much, He knows how many hairs we have on our head! Why would a GOd that loves us THAT much, not have the time to forgive us.
As for healing, that is a gift of the Spirit, and I have never had that particular one. (Remember there are many gifts but 1 Spirit)
And one more thing, your "Catholic" cross bearer, he didn't volunteeer, he was forced by the Romans.
I carry my cross, yet it is light, for CHrist's burden is light and His yoke easy.
The BIble also says that God loves us so much, He knows how many hairs we have on our head! Why would a GOd that loves us THAT much, not have the time to forgive us.
As for healing, that is a gift of the Spirit, and I have never had that particular one. (Remember there are many gifts but 1 Spirit)
And one more thing, your "Catholic" cross bearer, he didn't volunteeer, he was forced by the Romans.
I carry my cross, yet it is light, for CHrist's burden is light and His yoke easy.
G
Guest
Guest
When is the last time a catholic, healed the sick? Walked on water? turned water into wine? raise the dead?[b said:
Good question. Padre Pio circa 1950 healed the Blind, was known to bilocate and performed a vast catalogue of other miracles. St. Vincent de Paul -- a bunch of Miracles. The Cure de Ars -- his parish was overrun with the miraculous -- but he attributed them to the relics of St. Philomema. Joseph of Copertino from the 18th Century was the Levitating Saint -- some healings. St. Francis of Paola 16th Century -- More Miracles than Christ. When a boat man refused him free transit to Sicily from the bottom of Italy's 'boot' he layed his mantle in the water and stepped onto it and 'surfed' it to Sicily, skipping over the waves. He was a strict Vegitarian and when they would serve him meat -- he would resurrect dinner. To build a Church once he enlisted the help of an entire town but made it easy for the people's work by suspending ninetenths of Gravity so the work would go easier -- single old ladies were seen carrying entire stone pillars to their places. The Pope was so impressed with Francis of Paola that the Pope had him sent to the French Court to help keep the French King staunchly Catholic. The Miracles continued. In one French Town he cured the Plague. It is an ongoing Miracle -- in 400 years no epidemic of anything has been able to take hold in this extremely healthy French Town.
St. Vincent Ferrer of the 15th Century -- called himself the First Angel of Judgment from out of Rev 14. He had 10,000 Penitents that followed him on the road scourging themselves. He was a Dominican and, to the embarrassment of the Pope's in Rome, worked under the patronization of the Avignon Popes. His Ministry was huge. The Miracles wholesale. He spoke only Castillian but when addressing crowds of thousands who couldn't possibly have naturally heard the words of an old man, let alone understood them, all heard clearly and in their own tongues. Everyone was healed and the dead were raised. More miracles in a day, sometimes, then Christ worked in a Lifetime. The districts in which Vincent Ferrer conducted his Ministry were to remain Catholic. Only those districts his ministry didn't touch were to go Protestant in the next Century.
St. Anthony was a miracle worker. Some funny miracles that people still talk about.
St. Dominic. St. Francis of Assisi. St. Ignatius Loyola. Those were the big three. St. Dominic would have been a levitating Saint and had been seen to lift off the ground and turn luminous. At his death it was discovered that he had wrapped himself with chains in order to hold himself down.
St. Bernard of the 11th Century -- he, like Vincent Ferrer traveled across Europe and performed Miracles as routinely as Christ had done. he wrote a book about a St. Malachi, a contemporary of his, who also was Christlike in his Miracles. Malachi was the Saint who would compile the List of Popes that is not about run out.
So........ Catholicism has plenty of Saints. It comes to about two Major Saints every Century. The Twentieth Century came out sort of thin on that scale, but we may have made up for it in direct Apparitions of Our Lady. I have mixed thoughts -- it is my belief that Miracles come out of a capital stock of the Suffering and Penance of the Church. All the death and Suffering in the Twentieth Century should have paid for some huge supply of Miracles. But maybe the Blood of Non-Catholics merely goes to atone for the past sins of their Societies -- that after all the Death, the debts were barely paid for and nothing was left over as a Credit for the Miraculous. This may have been true of the Catholic deaths in the Purges of the Nazis, the Soviet Union, China, The Anticlerical Murders in Mexico and Latin America, and in Southeast Asia -- that the Blood was taken up in atoning for their societies careless lifestyles of Sin, leaving no ammunition left over to fuel Our Lady's Campaign for Conversion. But, then again, there may be enough for some Big Miracles before The End.
G
Guest
Guest
You see, you don't even know the irony within what you say. You murder everyone who tells you what God is now commanding, so you can stick within the protocol of that was given directly to the Twelve Apostles.[b said:
So, it is now your contention that you are equal to the Twelve Apostles? Fine, then prove it.
If you are favored by Christ then lets have some Miracles. If you Prots aren't just a big pack of pretentious liars, that do something. Do anything. But you can't. You claim to have Faith. But there is enough Criteria in the Scripture for ascertaining whether Faith is genuine and substantial. You come up sterile and empty. And I am trying to tell you why, but it is bad news and you don't want to hear it.
If you would not murder everyone who attempts to give you current Divine Revelation, you would know that Our Lady is the Mediatrix of All Grace. Christ will Come Again. Do you know that that means? That means that He is not Here Now helping you, like you claim, but can't show a single instance of.
G
Guest
Guest
You would have had the Church take away People's Holidays!? Why, to exploit more work out of them. That is in keeping with Protestant Ethics. You are being consistent. Anyway, the Catholics consecrated these formerly Pagan Holidays to Our Lady and the Saints, and to Christ with Christmas and Easter. Do you really begrudge all that? In Hell you should be made to work without ever having a Holiday, and you will have wished you had let your fine argument go unsaid.[b said:
the Child abuse of Priests is below the average expected of the rest of Society. It is not our Pedophile Schoolteachers and Scout Master that make up the Majority of such cases. The Catholics only have an advantage in Publicity. Society hushes everything else up, but they shout it from the Rooftops when a Priest is even accused. And, in most cases the accusations are coming from practicing atheist homosexuals who have an axe to grind and an opportunity of getting Rich. But it makes a good headline, and gouls like you feed on the scandal.
Praying to idols. These 'idols' you call them are the Martyrs and the Saints. You Prots effectively are teaching that there is no After Life. Once dead a Protestant is gone. Really dead. It doesn't trouble you that no Protestant lives beyond the grave? Well, Catholics do live beyond the Grave, and we will not suddenly turn our backs on our Old Faithful simply because they now stand before God the Holy Trinity.
Lead People astray. The Church still preaches Righteousness. The Prots send Missionaries around the World with the novel Religious Notion that they no longer need to practice good works and Righteousness. All of the Higher Religions thus encountered are quite scandalized by such licentious doctrines and thus Protestantism has earned the title of The Great Satan.
Murders! Europe was the only Continent to hold firm against the Mongolian and Turkish onslaughts that overwhelmed the rest of the Old World from the 11th to the 15th Centuries. You don't seem to mind War now. Why was War wrong when its goals were the same as now but only under Catholic Jurisdiction. It is because you only care about making Anti-Catholic Propaganda. The Truth is not in you.
WEarth from the
CCGR
Member
hey now so we are prideful for casting our sins directly to Christ what about the arrogance on the priests converting Jesus to communion wafers
LionOfJudah
Member, Dreamcast Fishing Guru
Its funny that you said the King of kings does not want to deal with us worms, but yet He came and died for everyone of us. Also if you study the Bible in any sort you will see that God places Himself more as a servant than as a tyrant king like what the Catholics protray Him as.
The Catholic church should really watch Dogma they may learn a thing or two from Budy Christ
The Catholic church should really watch Dogma they may learn a thing or two from Budy Christ
G
Guest
Guest
You are kidding right?[b said:
Christ established the Sacrament of Holy Communion on the theoretical level in John 6 (No one will have eternal life unless they partake of my flesh and drink of my blood), and instituted it on the Last Supper.
Even Timor has well established the History of the Holy Communion being the Real Body and Blood of Christ, and he's an Atheist.
Paul's heresy in regards the Eucharist was that it depended upon people's 'discernment', but even he emphasized its importance (so much so that he made people afraid of it -- he said that those who discerned unworthily would be punished with disease).
So, why does the Protestant Church reject the Eucharist? They originally did not intend to. Look at the History of the Reformation, as they call it. The German Barons confiscated all the Church Property North of the Danube, and East of the Rhine. The People thought that Church "Reform" would be instituted. What actually happened was that the Churches were closed. Priests that didn't escape to Catholic Territory were murdered. There was no one to administer the Holy Sacrament. this incited the famous Peasant Rebellion. Luther was given the choice of siding with the Peasants to implement real reform, or siding with the Barons to support the Confiscation and Close the Churches Program. He choose the murder of hundreds of thousands of German Peasants. Central Europe was practically depopulated. The German Barons were forced to begin to offer a bounty to anyone who would move to Germany. That is why so many Jews ended up in Germany. They took the place of the murdered Catholics.
So, anyway.. was it really a Doctrinal Decision to discount the most important of Christian Sacraments? Or was it a merely political decision imposed in consequence of the more important consideration of closing down the Churches and confiscating them and diverting all the resources to secular use? Don't believe me -- just look. There are no Protestant Cathedrals in Europe. No Protestant Universities. All of that was closed down and pillaged to nothing. Central Europe was to return to a virtual Dark Age.
CCGR
Member
we don't reject communion or sharing the Lord's table and remember him. The difference is that to us it's a symbol. We don't believe it's God transformed into edible form. Who are we to call him down and do such a thing?
G
Guest
Guest
"Symbolic". How do you decide that Christ was only talking symbolically?[b said:
The decision was made for you. It would take an expensive Priesthood to continue the Eucharist, and the German Barons wanted a Religion that would cost nothing. Every time a 'Protestant' suggested the Real Body and Blood, which would necessarily involve having an ordained Priesthood, somebody would be taken out and shot. Under such conditions, soon nobody was suggesting the Real Body and Blood. The Doctrine they arrived at, which guesses that Christ did not mean what He was saying, should be labeled "The Reason We Believe We are NOT Cowards" because that is what it all really was about -- You Prots had your Beliefs dictated to you by a bunch of pillage hungry land-barons. Any Protestant that had any principles was murdered along with the Catholics, and you, my friends, is what remains.
