So Firefox Alternatives?

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Firefox is free. . .

I know. An analogy is never perfect. Would you prefer "A product that advertises the fact they have XXX users to encourage more?" some of which will buy tech support. Maybe they use them in ads maybe they just look at figures in a business meeting. The point is they are a business, they make money somewhere, and I suspect they track the number of users or downloads to promote themselves. What does it matter how they do it? The business exists and supports values I disagree with through that business.

You guys are taking this to extremes. If there was a product that offered everything identical to Firefox with the ONLY difference being one openly supported traditional marriage over homosexuality which would you support? Thus I asked the question is there anything like that? You are acting like I called for all Christians everywhere to boycott Firefox or they wouldn't be Christians, I did not, I didn't even say I had decided to boycott them. I have to use a browser so I want to use one that both provides the functions I need and supports Christian morality as much as possible, it's as simply as that. Why would you not want this??? If there is not one that does this I guess I am stuck with using Firefox but why would I take considering God's will out of anything I do?

The facts where brought before me as to Firefox's dealings as I brought them to others here what you do with them is between your conscience and God. If you need to use them I don't blame you one whit (I probably will keep using them myself) but you act like you don't even want to know the truth or try for anything better. Yes one only has time for so much research on so many things, but to stick your head in the sand on everything is irresponsible.

 

[ewoksrule]

My issue is that you are picking on the sin of homosexuality so much more over all sins. I honestly don't care what people do with their personal life as it does not pertain to the code they develop.

Evaluating a tech product based on an employee's support/non-support of gay rights just seems crazy when every employee working for the company commits countless sins every day.

Why should we think twice about this? Picking a browser made by sinners that happens to not push gay rights does not bring me closer to God nor does it bring anyone else closer to Him. It just looks judgemental which really turns people off to Christ.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

I honestly don't care what people do with their personal life as it does not pertain to the code they develop.

Will you care when you (or your children) are forced to resign because you privately supported traditional marriage because that is what happened to the guy. Have fun getting a job once all places are like this because no one stood up to the push.

Evaluating a tech product based on an employee's support/non-support of gay rights just seems crazy when every employee working for the company commits countless sins every day.

...but I'm not evaluating it solely on gay rights I asked...

1.What browsers are my alternatives?
2.How secure are they?
3.What morals do the people making them support?

If a company is actively pushing other sinful behavior I'd like to know just as much which is why I asked "What morals do the people making them support" and not "do they support homosexuality". To be clear it's not about individuals sinning here it's about the company encouraging it. There is a difference between having an atheist work in a company and that company actively pushing atheist beliefs. When a company has an impact on our world we can also have an impact on it. Customers support companies as a whole you can't single out individuals within them unless you know them personally. If Google can actively try to influence Catholic Poland to accepting homosexuality why would we not try to influence them? Same with Mozilla.

Why should we think twice about this? Picking a browser made by sinners that happens to not push gay rights does not bring me closer to God nor does it bring anyone else closer to Him. It just looks judgmental which really turns people off to Christ.

Sorry but I'm less concerned about what people want than I am about what God does. The Bible says homosexuality is wrong so what is to judge when they are openly saying it's right and using my support to do so? If sin separates us from God they are encouraging people to sin and pushing them away from Him by it. Believe me I've found it impossible to talk about these things to the un-saved from a desire to be received correctly too but I can type it out. Also I hope you aren't referring to "Judge not lest ye be Judged" you could not have Earthly court Judges or that book called "Judges" if you can't say things are wrong /really don't want to go father afield than we already have. It's great you are concerned about bringing people to Christ but you can't do that by concealing the truth. To accept Christ at all you must first accept you have sins and you can't do that if you can't even call them sins. There is no way around making someone feel guilty at some point. Finally what about concern for the Christian who struggles with being pressured to accept this sin as righteous? What support can we give to them in silence. Know you aren't alone.

My issue is that you are picking on the sin of homosexuality so much more over all sins.

I believe I've made TWO threads pertaining to homosexuality since I joined in 2006 (Only Checked back to 2009 but I am pretty sure ).

The first one was my list, in which I thought I explained why I made it within it.

The other is the one you are reading. It was brought on by going to http://www.christcenteredgamer.com/ and, since I use Firefox, it displayed a note/link to the boycott. Behold Gerbil's thought process: "Hmmm I wonder if I should participate, now that I think about it I've actually heard about this incident before but I didn't know there was an effort to do anything. Meh that list of optional browsers on the boycott page doesn't look much better. I know, I'll ask the guys if they know of a better browser!". Browsers aren't games but since you are using one to read this I thought someone here might know something.

Let's look at some of the other threads I've made asking serious questions or having objections to something.

Doctors/Government gone wild? (she is still not free BTW). I could post about a lot more things like this if you like but I didn't think these things were as relevant here as others.

Proof that at least one video game influences cursing. A short one but clearly I don't like cussing.

Server Rules Explained Ah the TF2 server rules thread that took me days to put together. It exists as an effort to earnestly get through to our server ne'er-do-wells.

Hmm I see a pattern with EA I infer EA is a bad company. I do mention them pushing homosexuality at the end but it didn't start the thread rather it was a result of researching them.

Starz play leaves Netflix (or assorted Gerbil rant on shallow people) I don't think I even mentioned the Gay/Lesbian section but even if I did I clearly mention other things first.

Christian Let's Play Videos I ask to find clean, Christian let's plays because I don't like the cussing or morals of secular ones.

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion what content does it have? Wherein I ask about cussing specifically.

A Moral Question/Challenge From four years ago, Gerbil is a consistent fellow. I name no specific objection but still make the same challenge I make here and will continue to make. We can do better.

I've also made posts mentioning homosexuality when it's relevant to the topic being discussed though I've done the same with humanism/atheism. I don't play any JRPGS anymore at all for that reason so the topic has dwindled.

As I've said before there is a big group making a concerted effort to make homosexuality not a sin. The only one of similar scale I can think of is atheism/secular humanism but I've not seen an ad for that on Youtube or Hulu... yet. Abortion has a push but I've really not seen games pushing it so I don't have as much of a basis to post about it here (I did find one obscure game a while back. Want me to post about abortion so I don't seem biased ? ) It is not I who single out homosexuality from other sins it is those who push homosexuality that single it out. When asking about objectionable game content does anyone ask if gluttony is in a game? No they ask about the sins common to the day. Ponder this why does Netflix have a gay and lesbian section yet other sins in movies get a rating?

I tend to think you just don't want to see homosexuality mentioned at all, and I can't say I blame you I don't like thinking about it either. Thing is we aren't going to it, it's coming to us. If we huddle in fear in our little corner of the world soon we won't even have that anymore. It's being pushed in society so I push back, it's not rocket science.

Yeash I just wanted to know if there was a better company to support. In this case there doesn't appear to be but I don't regret trying. I'm getting nothing done again today though XD.

Oh and a thank you to those who have posted about their browser knowledge !

 

[Wolfeman]

Very well said Gerbil.

The Bible seeks to legalize what is moral, the world seeks to moralize what is legal. We have seen this with alcohol and gambling and now we see this with homosexual conduct. The Bible uses an absolute to judge morality, the world uses voter persuasion. If they can get enough people to vote and make it legal, then it must be morally acceptable.

If we fail to stand up for what is biblical truth out of fear that we might send someone to hell, we are no better than the pharisees. Each person must make a choice one day to accept or reject the free gift of salvation that Christ offers them. If they truly believe that what they are doing (drinking, gambling, lying, cheating, etc. ) is ok, then there is no need for salvation. Not telling people that something is sin when confronted with it is the same as condoning it.

We can not expect the lost to believe or behave the way those of us with the Holy Spirit living inside us do. We have a voice telling us what is and isn't right. Because they don't have that voice, we must be that voice. The Holy Spirit is guiding Gerbil to do that thru supporting a boycott or looking for alternatives.

 

[Patriot]

I know. An analogy is never perfect.

I think a better one would be a guy on the street offers you a free product. If you take the product you have to take an ad for another product (which you don't have to buy). The guy happens to be paid by the folks giving the ad for the other product. He'll get paid regardless of whether you take the free product or not (unless a large enough portion of the populace decides to not take his free product).

Or how about:

Should you decline a free apple from a local farmer because he actively supports an immoral cause?

The point is they are a business, they make money somewhere, and I suspect they track the number of users or downloads to promote themselves. What does it matter how they do it? The business exists and supports values I disagree with through that business.

The majority of their money comes from contracts with search engines. So they push people through their product to a particular search engine and the search engine company pays them to do it. Ever wondered why when you type a search directly into the address bar you end up at Google? Now you know.

You guys are taking this to extremes.

I'm just questioning the reasoning behind this. I don't see anything extreme in what I've said.

If there was a product that offered everything identical to Firefox with the ONLY difference being one openly supported traditional marriage over homosexuality which would you support? Thus I asked the question is there anything like that? You are acting like I called for all Christians everywhere to boycott Firefox or they wouldn't be Christians, I did not, I didn't even say I had decided to boycott them. I have to use a browser so I want to use one that both provides the functions I need and supports Christian morality as much as possible, it's as simply as that. Why would you not want this??? If there is not one that does this I guess I am stuck with using Firefox but why would I take considering God's will out of anything I do?

Here's my take. The big 3 (Firefox, Chrome, IE) all support liberal causes. Now if we ignore IE (since everyone that knows anything about browsers knows it was and continues to be a joke), the other two are relatively secure and tend to be updated all the time. Since you will probably be pushed to a browser that operates a bit more "small-time" are you sacrificing security and regular updates?

 

[ursen]

Many of the browsers that are alternates are based on engines from Mozilla, so have the possibility to be as secure as it is. The main reason I won't take Midori as my primary is that it is not recognized by CCleaner. And that idea is in part in error, I tried CCleaner while having Midori loaded, and discovered that it looks at some Midori functions the same as Firefox. Will I stick with Midori as a back up? Maybe, but it will take more tinkering on my part to see about that.

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

I think a better one would be a guy on the street offers you a free product. If you take the product you have to take an ad for another product (which you don't have to buy). The guy happens to be paid by the folks giving the ad for the other product. He'll get paid regardless of whether you take the free product or not (unless a large enough portion of the populace decides to not take his free product).

Or how about:

Should you decline a free apple from a local farmer because he actively supports an immoral cause?

It depends on if there is a choice, hence asking. One always has the choice of starving to death but he'd have to be chopping children into apple fertilizer for me to feel like that statement must be made. As is I think I can do more to change the world by taking the apple and opposing him. Likewise if I can turn this browser to a force for good I'll put up with where it comes from. That is until an alternative appears but that's not going to happen if people don't look and push for alternatives by things like making their dissatisfaction known or asking on forums.

The boycott people seem to think they can have an impact somehow. Probably nothing will come of it but at the very least it shows support for the guy, traditional marriage, and encourages the idea to grow. Then again doing what is right isn't about winning (on Earth at least) it's about doing God's will.

The majority of their money comes from contracts with search engines. So they push people through their product to a particular search engine and the search engine company pays them to do it. Ever wondered why when you type a search directly into the address bar you end up at Google? Now you know.

I've changed search sites before but I've never really looked into them. Now I'll have to ask if there is a better search engine X.X .

I'm just questioning the reasoning behind this. I don't see anything extreme in what I've said.

Sorry I just meant I didn't expect any debate at all. If the Firefox boycott had been about abortion or them putting a dirty joke on it's start up page I would have posted identically. I try to ask is there anything better morally (or WWJD do) about everything and encourage it in others. I fail often, probably more than most even, but I still try. I guess I assumed everyone else is trying for that goal too... again (I tend to do that XD ). I recognize we cannot "become perfect" of ourselves but we were still told to do so.

/slightly off topic dreamy Gerbil: It's faith and works always for me. I've talked about Christian media before and I believe it fails because they don't fulfill both. A Christian game may impart a just morality but what is it worth if no one plays it because it's bad. Likewise what is the point of making a fun game if it makes the world a darker place by it's morality.

Here's my take. The big 3 (Firefox, Chrome, IE) all support liberal causes. Now if we ignore IE (since everyone that knows anything about browsers knows it was and continues to be a joke), the other two are relatively secure and tend to be updated all the time. Since you will probably be pushed to a browser that operates a bit more "small-time" are you sacrificing security and regular updates?

Yup that's was my second major question too. I can assess performance by using a browser but security I'll never know until it fails. A lot of the browsers are clones of the big ones or use parts of the big ones though so where does security come in. Is one browser just as secure if it's a clone? IDK it's s dizzying amount of technical things I know little about but that only justifies asking more.

Many of the browsers that are alternates are based on engines from Mozilla, so have the possibility to be as secure as it is. The main reason I won't take Midori as my primary is that it is not recognized by CCleaner. And that idea is in part in error, I tried CCleaner while having Midori loaded, and discovered that it looks at some Midori functions the same as Firefox. Will I stick with Midori as a back up? Maybe, but it will take more tinkering on my part to see about that.

Just be careful. I don't know diddly about Midori either way it was simply one that wasn't mentioned yet so I asked about it.