"Inconvenient Truth" and incovenient fallacy?

I completely agree with you on the transportation woes, Bowser; however, thats where it ends. :)

Environmentalists do have a crazy predisposition, I agree. People refer to them as tree-huggers sometimes. However, if they have done their research, tested it with proven constants, there is not much that separates them from "real" scientists because neither have much history and research to reach for. The study of the atmosphere is relatively new.

They melt because of direct sunlight, which has little to do with the theory of global warming.
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At the poles, it is not direct sunlight, the sun's light and therefore, heat, come at an angle, making it colder. It is not the light that is melting it. If that was the case, and your logic was correct, we would have no ice caps.

You cannot gauge global warming by one summer in a single region. It may be slightly cooler where you are, but in Georgia, our lakes are drying up and the residential regions around Atlanta, along with the businesses are using no excess water. The dealership where I work no longer washes the cars before they are sold.

I'm not saying drop everything and plaster solar panels to all sides of your house, nor am I saying go out and buy a LEV (Low Emissions Vehicle). I am all for trying to change the ways in which we use our environment, we only have one.
 
Odale said:
At the poles, it is not direct sunlight, the sun's light and therefore, heat, come at an angle, making it colder. It is not the light that is melting it. If that was the case, and your logic was correct, we would have no ice caps.
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Either way, I don't believe they're melting because of global warming. It's still well below 32 degrees there, so how is it possible for them to melt because of that? The easiest guess I could make would be from the sunlight, not from the environment.
 
Sorry moxie, but I strongly feel that anyone who drives a foreign car is committing treason. Sure, back in the 80s and early 90s it was necessary because American vehicles were crap. But now a days, they are top notch (especially GM's vehicles). Purchasing from overseas puts the money overseas, and hurts the US auto industry, the economy, and many other areas of life in America (especially in Michigan).

But that's for a different debate!
 
tjguitarz said:
Sorry moxie, but I strongly feel that anyone who drives a foreign car is committing treason. Sure, back in the 80s and early 90s it was necessary because American vehicles were crap. But now a days, they are top notch (especially GM's vehicles). Purchasing from overseas puts the money overseas, and hurts the US auto industry, the economy, and many other areas of life in America (especially in Michigan).

But that's for a different debate!
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American cars are still crap.
 
tjguitarz said:
Sorry moxie, but I strongly feel that anyone who drives a foreign car is committing treason. But that's for a different debate!
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Hehe, we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Check the label on the shirt you're wearing, or the appliances in your house, the chair you're sitting on, or on the sheets you sleep on. Most consumer goods we purchase are foreign-made. Not that it SHOULD be that way, and I sympathize with those in Michigan who are affected by it, but it's a lot more than just cars that we purchase from other countries. Unfortunately the U.S. is flooded with foreign goods, mostly because they are comparable (or sometimes superior) quality to domestic items, at better prices. Most people buy for the $$$ savings, rather than buy something Made in the USA. Cheaper products = more sales = more foreign stuff gets brought in. It's a tough cycle to break.

And actually the Prius is the first foreign-made car that we've owned. In the past both the hubby and I only owned domestic vehicles, and every one of them needed major repairs 2-3 years into their life. So far we've had no problems with the Prius. When American cars are able to go 300k+ miles without needing major overhauls, and when they make more hybrid models, we'll consider switching back.

But you're right, this is a whole different subject! :)
 
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LOL...Just to let you all know, Chevy and Ford ("American Made") cars are mostly made in foreign contries...that said thing is that the Japanese car company Toyota is the closest to an "American Made" car you can find, (even though I hate Toyota)... I think it is 70% made in America...
 
Not sure who true that is. A few years ago, I worked in a plant that made car parts for Ford Rangers.

As for where the parts come from, and where it's assembled... most manufacturers don't tell you, but I know that Saturn actually has a breakdown right on new vehicles to tell you what percent of the parts are made domestically, where it was built, etc. My last car was 98% parts made in the US, assembled in TN.
 
Most of those are false...they are allowed to give you so much false information...My uncle used to run a dealership...and he said if they say that they are mostly made in America, it is a lie to get you to buy it...it is very rare to find a care mostly made in America...
 
Manufactures and Dealerships have a "thing" that legally allows them to post and say a lot of false info to sell cars...
 
XionTawa said:
Manufactures and Dealerships have a "thing" that legally allows them to post and say a lot of false info to sell cars...
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I doubt that, my sister runs a used bike/jetski business with her husband and there is no real law that states that. You can add a "disclaimer" stating that some of the information may be false, but blatantly lying to sell will get you into a lawsuit fast.
 
Not to cause an arguement...but I have an uncle who runs Gaddis Chrysler (big car place where I'm from) who I heard this from...plus another uncle who used to be in the business who QUIT because of all lies about car information that was going on...
 
I know we're straying from the original topic a bit, but now you've got me hooked...

was the lies all about where the cars were built and stuff like that? Or was it stuff about financing, pricing, etc?

When I was in the market for my current vehicle, Toyota was offering a manufacturer's discount. The local dealer tried to sell me the vehicle at full price, and when I tried to negotiate, the salesman came back 15 minutes later offering me the exact discount the manuf. was offering. I told the guy if he wasn't going to play fair, I wasn't buying from him - and left.
 
Stc95 said:
I completly disagree. I believe that there is more proof that God created the heavens and the Earth. and actually there is no scientific proof for Evolution, its all skewd and more importantly, government funded.
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Actually, creation and evolution are both beyond the scope of the scientific method. At the heart of the scientific method are measurements and observations made by trained observers and repeatable experimentation.

Since neither creation nor evolution are susceptible to either of those methods, both come down to faith. I choose to place my faith in creation. I trust God, and I believe the finding of science (not its interpretations by scientists) better match what God claims.
 
I read somewhere that while George Bush's home in Texas (or one of his homes, I don't know how many he supposedly has) is powered by geothermal heat and solar and wind power, while Al Gore's house is one of the largest electricity-consuming houses in the US. I'll have to run it by snopes, of course, but if it is true, that'd be another exposed hypocrisy.

EDIT: Ho ho! Snopes supports this.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

Some environmentalist. What a loser.
 
XionTawa said:
LOL...Just to let you all know, Chevy and Ford ("American Made") cars are mostly made in foreign contries...that said thing is that the Japanese car company Toyota is the closest to an "American Made" car you can find, (even though I hate Toyota)... I think it is 70% made in America...
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I guess it's not necessarily where it is made, it is where the money goes. 80% of all foreign made profits go back to the country where it was made.
 
XionTawa said:
Manufactures and Dealerships have a "thing" that legally allows them to post and say a lot of false info to sell cars...
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The laws concerning Truth in Advertising apply to every industry, period.

However, I can understand why your uncle would feel that way. Many car dealerships are very savvy and manipulative, and manage to deceive consumers without outright breaking the law. When they do break the law, though, they are subject to prosecution just like every other business. If no one reports them, though, they often get away with it.
 
MaidMirawyn said:
Actually, creation and evolution are both beyond the scope of the scientific method. At the heart of the scientific method are measurements and observations made by trained observers and repeatable experimentation.

Since neither creation nor evolution are susceptible to either of those methods, both come down to faith. I choose to place my faith in creation. I trust God, and I believe the finding of science (not its interpretations by scientists) better match what God claims.
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Of course your absolutly right! Evolution is a faith. It is a religion. Science is something that we can test and duplicate. So far no one has been able to test Evolution scientificly (save Micro-Evolution.)

But what i am saying is that there is more scientific evidance to support a young earth than an old earth.
 
ChickenSoup said:
I read somewhere that while George Bush's home in Texas (or one of his homes, I don't know how many he supposedly has) is powered by geothermal heat and solar and wind power, while Al Gore's house is one of the largest electricity-consuming houses in the US. I'll have to run it by snopes, of course, but if it is true, that'd be another exposed hypocrisy.

EDIT: Ho ho! Snopes supports this.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

Some environmentalist. What a loser.
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Here's the related entry from Snopes, about both houses...

Snopes.com said:
LOOK OVER THE DESCRIPTIONS OF THE FOLLOWING TWO HOUSES AND SEE IF YOU CAN TELL WHICH BELONGS TO AN ENVIRONMENTALIST.

HOUSE # 1:

A 20-room mansion (not including 8 bathrooms) heated by natural gas. Add on a pool (and a pool house) and a separate guest house all heated by gas. In ONE MONTH ALONE this mansion consumes more energy than the average American household in an ENTIRE YEAR. The average bill for electricity and natural gas runs over $2,400.00 per month. In natural gas alone (which last time we checked was a fossil fuel), this property consumes more than 20 times the national average for an American home. This house is not in a northern or Midwestern "snow belt," either. It's in the South.

HOUSE # 2:

Designed by an architecture professor at a leading national university, this house incorporates every "green" feature current home construction can provide. The house contains only 4,000 square feet (4 bedrooms) and is nestled on arid high prairie in the American southwest. A central closet in the house holds geothermal heat pumps drawing ground water through pipes sunk 300 feet into the ground. The water (usually 67 degrees F.) heats the house in winter and cools it in summer. The system uses no fossil fuels such as oil or natural gas, and it consumes 25% of the electricity required for a conventional heating/cooling system. Rainwater from the roof is collected and funneled into a 25,000 gallon underground cistern. Wastewater from showers, sinks and toilets goes into underground purifying tanks and then into the cistern. The collected water then irrigates the land surrounding the house. Flowers and shrubs native to the area blend the property into the surrounding rural landscape.

HOUSE # 1 (20 room energy guzzling mansion) is outside of Nashville, Tennessee. It is the abode of that renowned environmentalist (and filmmaker) Al Gore.

HOUSE # 2 (model eco-friendly house) is on a ranch near Crawford, Texas. Also known as "the Texas White House," it is the private residence of the President of the United States, George W. Bush.

So whose house is gentler on the environment? Yet another story you WON'T hear on CNN, CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC or read about in the New York Times or the Washington Post. Indeed, for Mr. Gore, it's truly "an inconvenient truth."
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http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/house.asp

If you read the article, you'll find that the Gore home is four times the size of the average new American home. The more conservative (and charitable) analysis of his energy use puts his home at over twelves times the energy consumption of the average home.

Four times as large, and twelve times as much energy? Doesn't that mean he's LESS energy-efficient than the average American household? At that rate, are we supposed to be proud of him because SOME of it comes from green sources?
 
Stc95 said:
But what i am saying is that there is more scientific evidance to support a young earth than an old earth.
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More than people would believe, actually. It's easy to get lost in the theories of scientists (which are the INTERPRETATION of scientific FACTS) and miss the evidence for young-Earth creation.

Of course, there's also evidence for an old Earth, so it's not like every intelligent believer MUST believe in a young Earth. I'm young-Earth-leaning, and my husband is old-Earth-leaning. Neither of us doubts the other's faith.
 
ChickenSoup said:
I read somewhere that while George Bush's home in Texas (or one of his homes, I don't know how many he supposedly has) is powered by geothermal heat and solar and wind power, while Al Gore's house is one of the largest electricity-consuming houses in the US. I'll have to run it by snopes, of course, but if it is true, that'd be another exposed hypocrisy.

EDIT: Ho ho! Snopes supports this.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

Some environmentalist. What a loser.
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You find me a reliable source, and I'll look at it.
 
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